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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:41 pm
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| sandown wrote: | In the main at Granville would be to enhanced CityRail services and the separation at Parramatta Rd would be for Granville to Epping double track utilising a Y link from the South.
This would reduce the cost of tunnelling from Westmead and the benefit would be access from Macarthur via High Level station and Y link and onto Carlingford, Epping and Chatswood. |
Access to Macarthur can, and should, be provided at Parramatta via frequent Cumberland Line services.
Via Granville is 'the long way around' and would not provide any extra paths through Parramatta like the tunnel would. It may be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:46 pm
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| FieldShunt74 wrote: | | jedimasterc wrote: | | how are they going to get a direct line from yennora to botany. |
They're not. They'll have to go via Granville and then either Flemington Goods Junction or Lidcombe Loop - Regents Park like the current and former Botany trips do. They'll have to hole up during the CityRail peaks and then fit in as best they can with the off peak CityRail traffic. |
The route via Lidcombe Loop and Regents Park would be easiest to enhance as there is spare land and not much in the way. Going this way avoids any conflicts with the Main lines, only the Suburban lines. If the Lidcombe Loop is too short to refuge a container train (it's probably only 8 cars or 180m long) then this could be extended at both ends. A Speed enhancement to upgrade the X15 junction at Sefton East Junction would be desirable, though the overbridge at this location makes this difficult.
If need be, a relatively short length of tunnel could connect this line with Clyde Up Yard and Clyde Down Yard, with the summit at Auburn working in its favour.
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:50 pm
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Why would they go via Berala rather than straight through to Flemington Junction?
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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Bwana
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:53 pm
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Before we go nuts here, what do you imagine would be the budget to improve a route for 10 movements a day at most?
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FieldShunt74
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:36 pm
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| drwaddles wrote: | | Why would they go via Berala rather than straight through to Flemington Junction? |
Any number of reasons, really. For instance, if there was something on at Olympic Park and shuttle services were running from Blacktown, as well as the sprint platform at Lidcombe, it might be tricky getting a path through the junction. Traffic on the goods line through Flemo Junction, the need to rail clean Lidcombe Loop, maintaining road knowledge for the crews... Plenty of potential excuses to go via Regents Park.
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
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Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:50 pm
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Thanks el shunto 
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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jedimasterc
Station Master
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:02 pm
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the whole point of the ssfl is to get freight trains off the main line. leaving the via regents park train line for cityrail use.
yennora yards will only be able to operate trains in the period cityrail closes till it reopens (please correct if wrong). wouldn't this yard operate better if it had direct access to the ssfl.
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BDA
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 17, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Sydney
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:21 pm
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No I wouldn't agree on the get all loco hauled trains off the suburban lines . What it does do is bypass the bottlenecks at Macarthur/Campbelltown/Glenfield/Liverpool/Cabramatta and Sefton Junctions .
What it also hopes to do is get a much faster run from the goods roads to the southern line beyond Railcorps pathetically slow tin cans .
The freight rail industry looks forward to the day when a curfew in the electrified area means zip compared to what it does now - to the south that is .
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jedimasterc
Station Master
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:39 am
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yennora isn't that far from cabramatta,if your going to do the ssfl why not extend it a bit from cabra to yennora yards as well. Instead of sending trains around granville, lidcombe, sefton. They can pop straight out onto the ssfl and head south to melbourne or as an extended part of the ssfl the dom/maldon gets finished to port kembla.
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BDA
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 17, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
Location: Sydney
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:05 pm
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The line out of Yennora faces Granville not Cabramatta Jct .
I can't see why operators couldn't push pull out of Yennora and detach the rear engine on the main line .
To link the SSFL with the up side at Yennora would be a huge task , SSFL will be on the down side of Cabramatta Jct so this highly improbable link would need to go under or over the mains and SSFL .
Don't hold your breath .
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FieldShunt74
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 06, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:08 pm
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| jedimasterc wrote: | | the whole point of the ssfl is to get freight trains off the main line. leaving the via regents park train line for cityrail use. |
Sure, but this isn't the SSFL, this is the "industrial rail hub". And Yennora isn't on the SSFL route so the trains from there are going to have to access the RailCorp network. Once they're out there, send them whichever way works the best at the time.
| jedimasterc wrote: | | yennora yards will only be able to operate trains in the period cityrail closes till it reopens (please correct if wrong). wouldn't this yard operate better if it had direct access to the ssfl. |
What do you mean "will"? The trains are running today and have been for many years. They don't run in the peak periods, sure. They do run, fitting in as best they can, between CityRail services outside of peak periods. They run early in the morning, they run in the middle of the day, they run in the evening.
A connection to the SSFL (if they ever build the thing) at Cabramatta would be a bonus. It wouldn't come cheap though, especially getting through the CBD of Fairfield. That's presuming there's room at the junction with the SSFL to provide a triangle or a run round loop. There would also need to be work done at Yennora to allow trains to depart in the down direction, put the south fork back or, as already suggested, a master siding. You'd have to wonder if all the effort would be worth it simply for the benefit of this one QRN facility. They'd certainly want to be paying for the connection. If the price is too high, they can just learn to like waiting for CityRail or move to a more suitable location.
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jedimasterc
Station Master
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:49 am
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forgot i'm talking to train nerds. I'm looking at the bigger picture. yennora is only 2 or 3 kms from cabra, there is plenty of room for a seperate line along the existing corridor with a southbound exit.
Imagine if I said why don't they do the south exit at yennora and run 4 lines from cabra to liverpool with a crossover like the one at westmead. Remove canly vale and cabra station and replace it with the cabravale rail & bus interchange in that spare space opposite the rsl club.
The ssfl could join up just before this station and with 4 lanes of traffic there would be no need for a curfew beyond this point.
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TheLoadedDog
El Sombrero!
Joined: Jun 19, 2003
Last Visited: Sep 28, 2008
Location: Macquarie Fields NSW
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:45 am
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| jedimasterc wrote: | | forgot i'm talking to train nerds. |
With a username like yours, I wouldn't be so quick to fling accusations of nerdity about.
Just sayin'. 
Humphrey! We're leaving!
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TW10
Station Master
Joined: Sep 06, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 21, 2008
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:04 am
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| jedimasterc wrote: | forgot i'm talking to train nerds. I'm looking at the bigger picture. yennora is only 2 or 3 kms from cabra, there is plenty of room for a seperate line along the existing corridor with a southbound exit.
Imagine if I said why don't they do the south exit at yennora and run 4 lines from cabra to liverpool with a crossover like the one at westmead. Remove canly vale and cabra station and replace it with the cabravale rail & bus interchange in that spare space opposite the rsl club.
The ssfl could join up just before this station and with 4 lanes of traffic there would be no need for a curfew beyond this point. |
There was a southern leg forming a triangle junction. It was hardly ever used and removed in late '80s or '90s. I believe that its last use was by a 32 class subbing for 3801 on local shuttles.
The land is now in use for other purposes.
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 22, 2008
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Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:11 am
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| TW10 wrote: | | jedimasterc wrote: | forgot i'm talking to train nerds. I'm looking at the bigger picture. yennora is only 2 or 3 kms from cabra, there is plenty of room for a seperate line along the existing corridor with a southbound exit.
Imagine if I said why don't they do the south exit at yennora and run 4 lines from cabra to liverpool with a crossover like the one at westmead. Remove canly vale and cabra station and replace it with the cabravale rail & bus interchange in that spare space opposite the rsl club.
The ssfl could join up just before this station and with 4 lanes of traffic there would be no need for a curfew beyond this point. |
There was a southern leg forming a triangle junction. It was hardly ever used and removed in late '80s or '90s. I believe that its last use was by a 32 class subbing for 3801 on local shuttles.
The land is now in use for other purposes. |
The southern entry exit was used fairly frequently when there was a trip train that ran from Clyde to Fairfield, it also provided an exit to get off the main if running late.
The last time I did a Google earth on the area, there seemed to be enough room to have a southern exit put in again, the probelm certainly would be to put a triangle in at Cabbra. Could not see ARTC doing it so it would be up to QR.
I think that what this whole thing shows is how bad planning or, actually none at all has been done for years by all sides of government for PT as well as the friegth transport industry other than road.
It still goes on even into new industrial parks such as the new big one seen as another of Iemma's vision out near Eastern Creek where new roads interconnecting the industries are now at EP stage, & nothing for rail.
As usual all land will be taken up & then, IF, rail is considered expensive resumption of land would be required.
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