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Metro Transit
Minister for Railways
Joined: Mar 08, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Stony Point Line & Frankston in Zone 3
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| Metro Transit |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:39 am
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Major delays have seen many services on the Frankston, Cranbourne and Pakenham lines canceled or delayed this morning, with delays of up to 40 minutes in some locations.
| Quote: |
Cranbourne-Pakenham
08:40am city bound from Westall
has been cancelled
Cranbourne-Pakenham
08:54am leaving the city from Parliament
has been cancelled
Frankston
12:05am leaving the city from Flinders Street
has been cancelled
Frankston
08:22am city bound from Cheltenham
has been cancelled
Frankston
08:22am city bound from Cheltenham
has been cancelled
Frankston
08:43am city bound from Moorabbin
has been cancelled
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Does anyone know what might have caused all these delays?
EDIT:
| Quote: |
Cranbourne
city bound from Carnegie
Cranbourne trains to the city are delayed at Carnegie by 20 mins due to an ill passenger
Cranbourne
city bound from Clayton
Cranbourne trains to the city are delayed at Clayton by 20 mins due to an ill passenger
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Metro II.
Metro Transit - For King and Country
Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts
The next station is Spencer Street
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PaxInfo
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Last Visited: Sep 28, 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| PaxInfo |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:02 am
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Yes, ill passenger at Carnegie at approx 0735.
Paramedics came from the ambulance station from around the corner and the train was able to depart at 0753.
As could be imagined traffic on Koornaing Rd was also disrupted due to down boomgates.
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Ummagumma
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Last Visited: Aug 28, 2008
Location: Junction, Rosstown and Oakleigh lines
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| Ummagumma |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:55 am
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Outbound Comeng also clipped a car on the Murrumbeena Rd level crossing, removing its front bumper. P-plates in the rear window, I noticed. Gates are still down at Poath Rd and police are finally redirecting traffic. Train was still at Murrumbeena station at 9.30, with a swarm of Mainco orange-vested workers standing around like stunned mullets. The whole area was gridlocked for the best part of an hour.
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tranzitjim
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:28 am
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They need to have sick bays located at selected railway stations.
Say at major stations along that section would be Oakliegh, and Caulfield.
The train could have continued on to Caulfield, had first aid person come and get the ill passenger, and the train could have continued on as normal.
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vlinecars
V/Man - "Yeah!"
Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Moe, Victoria
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| vlinecars |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:46 am
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V/Line services were also affected:-
| Gippsland Line Disruptions - V/Line (http://www.vline.com.au/home/news/en/21/1302/article.aspx) wrote: |
Updated 08:50
The following services will be running as coaches:
08:30 service to Traralgon and
11:15 service from Traralgon
V/Line would like to advised all Gippsland Line customers that, due to an incident at Murrumbeena, Gippsland train services are subject to disruption.
Further information will appear here shortly.
Updated 08:55
Services towards Melbourne are now running (although the 11:15 service is operating as a coach).
The 06:00, 06:40 and 07:15 services from Traralgon are expected to experience delays of around 30-40 minutes.
Updated 09:05
Services are now beginning to return to normal in both directions.
06:40 service from Traralgon will terminate at Flinders St, with customers catching Connex services to Southern Cross.
09:25 service to Traralgon will originate at Flinders St Customers from Southern Cross to catch the 09:26 Connex service to Flinders St and connect to this service.
Updated 09:08
08:30 service to Traralgon: the coach due to operate this service is stuck in traffic.
Customers are advised to catch the 09:26 Connex service from Southern Cross to Flinders St, to connect to the 09:25 Southern Cross service, which has been altered to depart from Flinders St. |
| Ummagumma wrote: | | Outbound Comeng also clipped a car on the Murrumbeena Rd level crossing, removing its front bumper. P-plates in the rear window, I noticed. Gates are still down at Poath Rd and police are finally redirecting traffic. Train was still at Murrumbeena station at 9.30, with a swarm of Mainco orange-vested workers standing around like stunned mullets. The whole area was gridlocked for the best part of an hour. |
Comeng concerned was Alstom Refurb's 665M-1138T-666M-659M-1180T-660M, noted at Murrumbeena at 09:32.
Cheers,
Matt Julian
Railpage Australia™ Forums - Young Member of the Year, 2006 & 2008
Railpage Australia™ Forums - Most Informative Poster, 2006 & 2008
Last edited by vlinecars on Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Metro Transit
Minister for Railways
Joined: Mar 08, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Stony Point Line & Frankston in Zone 3
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| Metro Transit |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:19 pm
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| tranzitjim wrote: | They need to have sick bays located at selected railway stations.
Say at major stations along that section would be Oakliegh, and Caulfield.
The train could have continued on to Caulfield, had first aid person come and get the ill passenger, and the train could have continued on as normal. |
Are you serious? Even though it does sound like a good idea there might be problems encountered in establishing such a facility.
Then the following questions would have to be asked before implementing any level of first aid care at such locations:
To what degree of medical aid do they provide?
If a passenger died whilst in care whould they be liable?
How many first aid staff would such a location have?
Would they be there from first to last train?
What type of medical equipment would they have?
What would be their limitations?
What legal boundries would be in place?
What other roles would these staff undertake given the low frequency of passengers falling ill to a point that a train could be delayed?
If first aid staff are deployed at set stations and a passenger falls ill 2 stations down, would they cart their equipment on the train or would they have a car to get stuck in traffic, when an ambulance would have been called anyway?
Personally, I don't see a need in the requirement of having first aid people at train stations. At major events i can see a need because of insurance and legal reasons, but i beleive that such reasons would warrant a requirement in such people at our stations.
We have an Ambulance service to do just that, attend to an emergency, if a passenger is I'll enough to delay a service than it must be severe enough to warrant the call out of Paramedics who would be better trained and equiped and be able to take them to Hospital faster than the station first aid lady.
Also people might be so willing to be attended to by a Connex staff member with a first aid kit, where the Paramedics are a respected member of the community and people would be more willing to help them out.
And if a first aid person did attend a sick person at a station, an ambulance would probably be called anyway.
Metro II.
Metro Transit - For King and Country
Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts
The next station is Spencer Street
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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| Gwiwer |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:26 pm
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I can partially agree with Jimmy for once in the sense that having more staffed stations might lessen some of the delays arising from passengers taken ill. I don't think Connex would consider themselves to be directly responsible for the provision of sick rooms as such nor for having qualified staff to attend them.
Connex (and VLP) has a duty of care to their passengers meaning that unless the passenger of their own choosing leaves the train then the train stays where it is until medical assistance arrives.
Staff might be available at Premium stations to assist rather than leaving everything up to the driver which in some cases could mean a sick passenger is at least able to leave the train into the care of those staff until help arrives. Meanwhile the train (and those banked up behind it) can go on its way.
It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence that two events affected the same line within a 90 minute period.
Why MYKI? It isn't mine and it's not a key.
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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Ummagumma
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Last Visited: Aug 28, 2008
Location: Junction, Rosstown and Oakleigh lines
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| Ummagumma |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:52 pm
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| Gwiwer wrote: | | It sounds like an unfortunate coincidence that two events affected the same line within a 90 minute period. |
Well, maybe, maybe not. While the boom gates on Poath Rd were down, with no trains going through eithe direction, thanks to the Murrumbeena incident, there were plenty of cars driving around the boom gates and crossing the line.
I'm wondering whether the boom gates at Murrumbeena Rd were down for a while because of the Carnegie incident and some drivers there decided to give it a go, not expecting a train to roll through. It seems just too much of a coincidence to me that the incidents happened at adjacent stations at morning peak.
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PaxInfo
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jun 11, 2004
Last Visited: Sep 28, 2008
Location: Melbourne
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| PaxInfo |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:59 pm
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| Metro Transit wrote: | We have an Ambulance service to do just that, attend to an emergency, if a passenger is I'll enough to delay a service than it must be severe enough to warrant the call out of Paramedics who would be better trained and equiped and be able to take them to Hospital faster than the station first aid lady.
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And in this Carnegie is very lucky; its ambulance station is just 100 metres from the railway station.
Planning of new suburbs should seek to co-site ambulance, police, and railway station where possible (or at least within 1km).
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tranzitjim
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:43 pm
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Metro Transit, the points I can see are,
#1, How long does it take for an Ambulance to reach the train. Often 10 minutes.
..... Under my proposal of a medical center at Caufield, the train would just continu as normal to Caulfield.
.....The main reason behind this proposal is, for the benifit of the train, and not having it held up. You just continu as normal to Caulfield, get the medic guy to come and help the passenger off, and over to the medic room, and the train can continu on as normal.
#2, Much like schools have a 'sick bay'. Such a medi-station room, would have the same equipment as an Ambulance, and a GP type room.
You could operate them as a GP medical center, the income you get from Medicare, would count a long way in the payment of such a service.
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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| Speed |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:03 pm
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The official report doesn't say much that this thread hasn't said already. It does have an official response from Connex. It's also interesting to read that trains were run through the loop to reduce congestion.
| Quote: | Major rail delays after passengers collapse
Melbourne's train network is expected to return to normal this afternoon, after widespread delays across the city this morning.
Several passengers collapsed on trains, and a P-plate driver collided with a train at level crossing, causing more than 200 cancellations or delays.
A car driven by a P-plater collided with a train at a level crossing in Murrumbeena at 8.15am, delaying trains on the Pakenham and Cranbourne lines. There were no injuries reported and the line was cleared by 8.30am.
The Pakenham and Cranbourne lines were further delayed after two passengers collapsed inside train carriages. The trains were delayed until ambulances could arrive to collect the sick passengers.
Connex spokesman John Rees said the ill passengers were at Clayton, North Melbourne, North Richmond and Carnegie stations and accounted for about 100 cancellations or delays.
A 40-year-old woman was collected at Carnegie station and a man, 70, was collected at Oakleigh. Both were taken to Monash Medical Centre for treatment.
Another passenger collapsed on a train and had to be collected by ambulance at North Richmond station, leading to delays on the Hurstbridge-Epping line.
A Metropolitan Ambulance spokesman said a 35-year-old man collapsed at North Melbourne railway station at 8.05am and was taken to hospital by an ambulance.
Meanwhile, the level-crossing collision had accounted for more than 100 cancellations or delays, Mr Rees said. The network should return to normal this afternoon, Mr Rees said.
Earlier, a spokesman for Connex said staff would not remove unconscious passengers from trains for safety reasons, and that a train had to pull into the nearest station and wait until an ambulance arrives.
Trains were also diverted through the city loop to try and ease congestion.
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http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/trains-back-on-track-after-200-delays/2008/04/29/1209234811474.html
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Metro Transit
Minister for Railways
Joined: Mar 08, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Stony Point Line & Frankston in Zone 3
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| Metro Transit |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:39 pm
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| tranzitjim wrote: | Metro Transit, the points I can see are,
#1, How long does it take for an Ambulance to reach the train. Often 10 minutes.
..... Under my proposal of a medical center at Caufield, the train would just continu as normal to Caulfield.
.....The main reason behind this proposal is, for the benifit of the train, and not having it held up. You just continu as normal to Caulfield, get the medic guy to come and help the passenger off, and over to the medic room, and the train can continue on as normal. |
The only problem with that is that there are cases where the train mght not be able to move, say for example there was a spinal related accident, passenger gets up to go to the door and a jerk in the track sees them fall to the floor hard, the train would have to stop for risk of causing any further damage, and it might not look too good if Connex did implement such as program where they could, and would be seen as more concerned about delaying the train then the health and well being of their passengers, even if they provide such a first aid service.
| tranzitjim wrote: | | #2, Much like schools have a 'sick bay'. Such a medi-station room, would have the same equipment as an Ambulance, and a GP type room. |
The only problem with that is like many Doctors surgerys and Ambulances they carry drugs, which are popular with 'users' and that causes a security risk, security considerations must be taken into account based on the storage of these drugs, the security of the station and the security of the staff.
| tranzitjim wrote: | | You could operate them as a GP medical center, the income you get from Medicare, would count a long way in the payment of such a service. |
So it would be tax payer funded or bulk billed? The Medicare system is a Federal system and might be hard to implement this to a service being provided at public rail network, which I'm not sure what you might mean by that, but would passengers that require help be billed for their treatment? or would this be free and the tax payer foot the bill?
Also with such a service, would there be a special hot line or would drivers alert the first aiders of the problem? There is also a concern that injured people might walk in from off the street requesting help as a way to beat long ques at public hospitals or that they cannot afford basic treatment, which could cause problems if they are turned away by the first aiders.
Then there are the costs of building such facilities or referbing un used space at stations, training of staff as well as on going training, as they would require refresher training every few years or less, there would be advertisment and promotional costs, costs of equipment and other purchasing costs and costs for security, upgrades and maintenance.
Where it might actually proove to be cheaper to run the service late considering that delays caused be ill passengers are not all that often, they do happen as we have seen today, but I dont think they happen enough often to warrent a major upgrade of facilities and huge expenses to provide first aid staff.
Metro II.
Metro Transit - For King and Country
Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts
The next station is Spencer Street
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Metro Transit
Minister for Railways
Joined: Mar 08, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Stony Point Line & Frankston in Zone 3
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| Metro Transit |
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:19 pm
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Found at: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23616791-2862,00.html
| Quote: | Train collides with car at Murrumbeena causing widespread delays
Gareth Trickey - April 29, 2008 12:00am
A WOMAN risked her life and that of her young child when she dashed across a busy level crossing in Murrumbeena this morning.
The pair ignored warning signals and the threat of an oncoming train, to the shock of nearby motorists.
Moments earlier a car trapped between lowered boom gates collided with a train at the level crossing, causing widespread delays to Melbourne’s transport system.
The driver of the car escaped without injuries but the car was badly damaged.
More than 100 services were affected by the Murrumbeena smash.
Unrelated incidents on trains in Clayton, North Melbourne, North Richmond and Carnegie caused further disruptions to train services this morning.
Connex reported cancellations or delays to about 200 trains in the hours between 7am and 10am.
Connex spokesman John Rees said services in Clayton, North Melbourne, North Richmond and Carnegie were halted to allow paramedics to treat sick passengers on four separate trains.
"It was unusual to get that many incidents in peak hour," he said.
"The biggest single incident was the Murrumbeena collision." |
Metro II.
Metro Transit - For King and Country
Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts
The next station is Spencer Street
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tranzitjim
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:52 pm
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The plan is to have a full, proper public GP clinic, where members of the public can just walk in, and use their medicare card to bulk bill.
Those of whom had a valid ticket, would be able to get free care, included in their train ticket. Or, they can be required to use their medicare card if we want to go that way.
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:58 am
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Medical practitioners at premium railway stations seems an odd combination. It would have the advantage that you wouldn't need to drive to the surgery if you were sick or injured, I guess.
Most sick people would rather lie or sit in an empty room than lie across the floor of a train. When considering which you'd prefer, note that the collapses about which we hear are all on crowded trains too.
| Metro Transit wrote: | | there are the costs of ... training of staff as well as on going training, as they would require refresher training every few years |
I would see the cost of training some premium station staff in first aid as quite justifiable. For a start, railway stations are workplaces so they should have first aid officers. It's also quite foreseeable that a person could injure themselves or lose consciousness while they're waiting on the platform (criminal harm, drugs & alcohol, over-exposure to weather, heart conditions etc).
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