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Metro Transit
Minister for Railways
Joined: Mar 08, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Stony Point Line & Frankston in Zone 3
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| Metro Transit |
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:52 am
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Found at: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23625518-2862,00.html
| Quote: | John Brumby gives consortium a week
Geraldine Mitchell and Ashley Gardiner May 01, 2008 12:00am
PREMIER John Brumby has fired a warning shot at the consortium behind the new $500 million smartcard, giving it until the end of this month to prove the card can work.
Secret testing of the troubled myki smartcard began on buses at a depot in Geelong yesterday.
The Transport Ticketing Authority said public access to the trial was "inappropriate".
Yesterday Mr Brumby warned Kamco the trial was a key indicator of its system.
"If we find in the next month that the trial hasn't proceeded and hasn't succeeded, then we will obviously have to look very closely at this arrangement."
Opposition Transport spokesman Terry Mulder said it appeared that the Government was getting very close to pulling the plug.
Mr Brumby's warning comes a month after Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky admitted the smartcard was three years behind schedule, over budget and would cost taxpayers $1 billion.
A week later, smartcard chief and the state's highest paid bureaucrat, Vivian Miners, was axed.
But the official myki website still states: "The roll out of myki will begin with the first stage of the pilot program in 2007 and continue into 2008".
A Transport Ticketing Authority spokesman Adrian Darwent said the first day of the trial was only setting up the system and that the full test would begin next week.
He said up to five buses would test how well the cards scanned on and scanned off and read full fare and concession cards.
Mr Darwent said 100 different scenarios would be tested in the second phase of the regional bus trial.
"What is learnt will be invaluable for the roll-out of the ticketing system," he said.
"Buses represent the most complex part of the system, because unlike trains where devices are fixed at stations, in order to charge the correct fare, buses use GPS to track where and when customers are when they scan on and off."
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Metro II.
Metro Transit - For King and Country
Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts
The next station is Spencer Street
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jfan
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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AzN_dj
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 6, 2009
Location: Chelsea
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| AzN_dj |
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:25 pm
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Wait, why are they claiming buses are the hardest part of the project? How can Perth do it so easily? Wouldn't trams be harder than buses?
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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| Gwiwer |
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:32 pm
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| Quote: | | How can Perth do it so easily? |
Perhaps because they are a smaller city and not attempting to bring in a State-wide system. The software package would be smaller and less complex for starters.
Victoria seems to have decided it would be a good idea for every man and his dog to use the same ticketing system so that if, for example, you suddenly found yourself in Bairnsdale instead of Bendigo, Mildura instead of Mallacoota, then you could still use the same ticket.
There are some merits in that but few people would ever need such flexiblility. Yet that will be a part of what is causing the problems in Victoria. This is not just a Melbourne ticketing system.
And what arrangements exist for cross-border journeys within the combined Albury - Wodonga bus network?
For my money (and some of my money has gone to fund this billion dollar fiasco) this system should have been terminated as soon as it became apparent that it could not deliver what was in the glossy sales brochure. It could have been picked up again later if it had been fully developed but Melburnians who have sufferred the failings of the Metcard system are now enduring the costs of a second ticketing debacle.
Both systems have been commissioned without fully exploring what would actually be delivered and both have (thus far) proven to fall very far short of what was promised. Lessons which should have been learned from Metcard have not been and the same mistakes have been made again at a cost of $1b. That is an unforgiveable error.
Why MYKI? It isn't mine and it's not a key.
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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AzN_dj
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 6, 2009
Location: Chelsea
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| AzN_dj |
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:16 pm
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Albury and Wodonga will not be using myki from what I have heard. Quite a lot of regional buses are not getting myki.
I was under the impression that Melbourne could not buy a system off the shelf and implement it purely because of the trams. However, now they are claiming buses.
I agree that the mistakes made with metcard should not be made again. We are getting a system with heaps more features we will ever use!
And the government earlier said that equipment was going to be under an open system so they could easily replace parts, and for more interstate integration in the future. Why can't they just draw this part in immediately?
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DalyWaters
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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| DalyWaters |
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:30 pm
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Hong Kong's Octopus system has trains, trams and buses.
It has been running successfully for ten years now.
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Metro Transit
Minister for Railways
Joined: Mar 08, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Stony Point Line & Frankston in Zone 3
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| Metro Transit |
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:03 pm
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| DalyWaters wrote: | Hong Kong's Octopus system has trains, trams and buses.
It has been running successfully for ten years now. |
Why they didn't ask them if they could do Melbourne as well, or at least ask them to show us how it is meant to be done.
How different are the two systems technology wise? If..I mean Myki doesn't work, so when they finally realise this, could it be possible to patch bits up with the Hong Kong system?
Metro II.
Metro Transit - For King and Country
Minister for Cultural Affairs and the Arts
The next station is Spencer Street
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calt
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 14, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: City
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The Met
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 2, 2009
Location: 37.55-S /145.01-E
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| The Met |
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:22 pm
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| DalyWaters wrote: | Hong Kong's Octopus system has trains, trams and buses.
It has been running successfully for ten years now. |
In Hong Kong:
The trams, operate on a single fare.
Buses operate on a single fare.
Their trams also have a nominated entry and exit point, and is generally the status quo with buses to here, and there.
WE - have a modal system (ie: Zone 1 & 2). So it is incorrect to compare them side to side. This adds to the complexity of our situation.
[quote="Metro Transit"How different are the two systems technology wise?[/quote]
Technology wise - they operate similarly- ie 'smartcards.' In Hong Kong and other places around the world, the smartcard system has also expanded to be serve as a payment card also.
"People are pretty much alike. It's only that our differences are more susceptible to definition than our similarities." - Linda Ellerbee
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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| Gwiwer |
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Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:10 pm
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Remember this also.
The Victorian Government went to tender for their system and for all we are ever likely to know has gone with the cheapest tender received.
That was the first fundamental mistake with Metcard and looks to have been made again.
The cheapest is seldom the best.
As has been said Hong Kong has a working system but Hong Kong is also a far smaller, but much more crowded, area being roughly 1500 square km with a population of around 7 million against Melbourne's 7600 square km for around 3 million people.
Hong Kong has a far higher share of the total market using public transport account as much as anything being an extremely crowded small space. It therefore follows that they cope very well with high frequency efficient public transport which can operate on standard fares.
Melbourne could do that but would have extremely skewed costs if, for example, every tram ride cost $2. That $2 would then apply for a single stop or for the 21kms end to end of the 75 or 86 routes. Melbourne is served better by some graduation in fares. What of a rail trip from Sunbury to Stony Point at almost 100kms? Would that also be $2 under that system?
Melbourne requires more complex software than does Hong Kong, and perhaps as complex as London where Oyster has still to be fully rolled out and charging issues resolved after several years of service.
Why MYKI? It isn't mine and it's not a key.
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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fogcv
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: The Burnley Group
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Tonzo
Train Controller
Joined: May 13, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 7, 2008
Location: Nunawading, Vic
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| Tonzo |
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:55 pm
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From Wednesday's Age:
| Quote: | Myki 'scraping through' in crucial road test
Clay Lucas
May 14, 2008
A TRIAL of the myki travel smartcard being run in Geelong is producing "mixed results", according to sources close to the test.
McHarry's Bus Line in Geelong has been hosting a test of the system for two weeks.
The tests of the troubled $500 million system, by the Kamco consortium that is developing myki, are not public.
With two weeks of tests left, a source said the ticket system had narrowly passed 20 benchmarks set for it. "It may not have passed all of the tests with flying colours, but it did pass them," the source said.
Premier John Brumby said yesterday that "the trial in Geelong has been progressing well", but declined to release any results from the tests.
"My understanding is that the benchmarks have been achieved for that, so that's a positive step forward," Mr Brumby said.
Last week's state budget committed the Government to running a public trial of myki in Geelong, by December at the latest.
Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky, who will answer questions today before Parliament's Public Accounts and Estimates Committee, said last week that she had not seen the results of the tests. She confirmed that she had discussed the myki project with Mr Brumby several times.
"John and I obviously talk on a fairly regular basis about the myki project, and we have a range of different scenarios if things aren't working as well as envisaged," she said.
Mr Brumby has said over the past six weeks that if the myki system does not pass this month's Geelong tests, the Government will evaluate whether it should proceed with the project.
The NSW Government this year dumped its planned smartcard ticket system, after more than seven years of failed attempts to introduce it.
Myki (pronounced my-key) is running three years behind schedule. The system was due to begin roll-out in March last year, but it will not start operating until 2010 at the earliest.
The Government has blamed software glitches for the delay. |
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AzN_dj
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Dec 20, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 6, 2009
Location: Chelsea
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| AzN_dj |
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:10 pm
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| The Met wrote: | | DalyWaters wrote: | Hong Kong's Octopus system has trains, trams and buses.
It has been running successfully for ten years now. |
In Hong Kong:
The trams, operate on a single fare.
Buses operate on a single fare.
Their trams also have a nominated entry and exit point, and is generally the status quo with buses to here, and there.
WE - have a modal system (ie: Zone 1 & 2). So it is incorrect to compare them side to side. This adds to the complexity of our situation.
[quote="Metro Transit"How different are the two systems technology wise? |
Technology wise - they operate similarly- ie 'smartcards.' In Hong Kong and other places around the world, the smartcard system has also expanded to be serve as a payment card also.[/quote]
From my recollection, octopus is capable of modal systems and time-based fares.
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PalmerEldritch
Say goodnight to the bad guy
Joined: Jun 16, 2004
Last Visited: Oct 27, 2008
Location: Princes Park, Carlton
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| PalmerEldritch |
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:58 am
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Found at: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23720023-2862,00.html
| Quote: | Myki failure leaves thousands riding trains for free
Geraldine Mitchell
May 19, 2008 12:00am
UP to 10,000 commuters are travelling for free every month in the outer southeast because of delays to the troubled myki smartcard.
The Herald Sun can reveal commuters on trains between Stony Point and Frankston do not have access to tickets or validation machines.
An official Connex flyer, distributed on trains on the Stony Point line, confirmed up to 20,000 trips were not checked.
"Customers will be able to travel without a validated ticket to Frankston," the flyer states.
Tickets will be checked only if a commuter wants to travel beyond Frankston towards the city.
The service from Frankston to Stony Point travels across eight stations, including Somerville and Hastings.
Sources said the extra 30 services on the Stony Point line, announced by Public Transport Minister Lynne Kosky last month, were due to coincide with the first stage of the pilot program of the $500 million smartcard.
Problems with the smartcard have delayed its introduction.
The Connex flyer confirms patronage on the line is growing rapidly.
"Nearly 10,000 Mornington Peninsula residents use the Stony Point service every month, making as many as 20,000 trips," it states.
A spokesman for Ms Kosky confirmed no ticket machines had been installed on the Stony Point line.
And he said no ticket machines would be installed until the new smartcard system is introduced.
"The Stony Point line will have myki machines once the system is operational," spokesman Stephen Moynihan said.
But he said that commuters could buy existing metcards at various outlets and were required to validate tickets at Frankston if they wished to continue their journey.
"Everyone must have a valid ticket when they use all forms of public transport," Mr Moynihan said.
The smartcard system is being tested in secrecy on buses at a Geelong depot.
Premier John Brumby has given the consortium behind the $500 million smartcard until the end of the month to prove it can work. |
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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| Gwiwer |
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 3:15 pm
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This is of course hardly news to those of us who have followed developments (or the lack of them) over recent months.
It was perfectly clear that there would in effect be no ticketing on the Stony Point sprinters for passengers not travelling to or from Frankston, which is probably around one in three of all trips made on the line.
Even if you have access to a prepurchase outlet there is nowhere to validate your ticket until you pass through Frankston.
Passengers connecting onto the city trains are expected to validate tickets as they leave the Stony Point train or, if none is held, to immediately purchase one upon arrival. In reality this does not always happen. Barrier staff will permit passengers to leave platform 2 but do not have authority to check tickets. Therefore connecting passengers simply stroll across to platform 1 and board their spark while others casually walk out of the station free of charge.
As several stations on the Stony Point line are not within reasonable distance of any Metcard outlet (the nearest outlet to Leawarra, for instance, is Frankston station!) there seems to be little point in attempting to collect revenue or validations.
The requirement to hold a valid ticket is not diminshed but if it is not possible to purchase one, or to validate it if purchased, then the operator can do nothing except perhaps lobby the Department for Transport for loss of revenue since the responsibility for providing a ticketing system lies with them.
Why MYKI? It isn't mine and it's not a key.
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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Guess it is more headline grabbing 
