North East Line to Standard Gauge

 
  NottaGunzel Banned

Location: Banned
How often do trains run on the Oaklands branch, especially the whole length?

Is it more than some of those grain lines which were converted to SG in 1995 along with the western line standardisation?

How much does it cost to re-gauge a single track branch line from BG to SG? Better to get it over and done with.
"Somebody in the WWW"


Presumably the Oaklands line only carries wheat. It could be standardises one silo at a time. Where then are the silos. Top and Tail operation means no loops need be converted (assuming one train at a time is enough). For the time being, the wheat might even be taken to silos on other lines. Where might these be?

The cost of technical measures including conversion is probably a state secret and/or commercial in confidence.
"awsgc24"



I had a look at the Oaklands line several months ago. Grain would apear to be its only traffic. From memory there are 4 loading pionts and silos along the line at Warragon,Rennie,Sangar and Oaklands, all looked to be in use. Only alternatives would be Tocumwal, But I do not know the status of the line north of Toc.
.
"woodford"



The status of the line north of Tocumwal is pretty much non-existant - some still exists but some large chunks have been lifted - and it was SG whereas line to Tocumwal from the south was BG. Apparently some sections are still there but would be no good.


NottaGunzel wrote:
As for "fixing up" Tocumwal/Narrandera - I don't think there's anything to fix up is there  Hasn't the track been lifted  


Only parts of it, mostly in the section Toc. - Jerilderie, plus a small section, just outside Jerilderie's outskirts heading to Narrandera...
Still, from what I've seen of it (I travel the Newell Highway along side this line, twice a year heading to Dubbo) it would need a mass rebuild, the timber trestle bridge over the Murrumbidgee River on the outshirts of Narrandera will need to be replaced, the part over the Sturt Highway to Hay no longer stands, it was removed years ago & the dip in the road has been filled back to normal height again.



From the Cobram line thread  -  posted by dalts 1985 - inadvertantly not originally credited to dalts 1985. Good to see dalts 1985 has rectified this in the next post.
Obviously not an option and probably never was an option.

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  dalts 1985 Banned

Location: Banned
Only alternatives would be Tocumwal, But I do not know the status of the line north of Toc.
"woodford"


Refer to these 2 posts: here & here in the  Re-opening the Cobram line to Passenger Traffic Thread, for a conditon report on the Toc. - Jerilderie Line

Edit: 0040Hrs. Mon. 2 June

NottaGunzel bet me to it...
  LowndesJ515 #TeamRog

Location: Goulburn
I think earlier in this thread (or another) it said last Oaklands train was about 12 months ago.
"Ballast_Plough"


Last Train from Oaklands was 9322 on the 31st of May 2007. A73 and X44 ran the grainy. Pictures on the link below.

http://www.lowndesj515.fotopic.net/c1292958.html

Cheers
  luznug Banned

Location: Banned
I think earlier in this thread (or another) it said last Oaklands train was about 12 months ago.
"Ballast_Plough"


Wait for the wheat season 08/09 before spinning the devils advocate on Railpage Australia™.
Oil 130 a barrel today.
  Speed Minister for Railways

Somewhere amongst the letters on nightclub lockouts and Bill Henson, there is this letter in today's Age
STANDARDISATION of the north-east railway to Albury is welcomed but the rail bypass of Wodonga is a potential environmental disaster, according to experts who told the review panel into the project that the new route would "seriously affect the Murray River flood plain for hundreds of years into the future". They included federal and Victorian government water authorities.

The panel's final report contained a number of concerns, including the lack of a proposal to bridge the whole bypass over the flood plain, which the Victorian Government said would be too costly.

The rail bypass will be on an embankment 7-9 metres high, a 5.6 kilometre, 60-degree angled route that will expose its flanks to seriously altered flows of floodwaters. Experts said road and rail across flood plains must be on the shortest axis, square on to the floods. There was no environmental effects statement, a legislated requirement of both governments, and a social impact study was not released to the panel.

There is not one problem with the existing railway line through Wodonga that cannot be overcome, with savings to taxpayers of millions of dollars - which could be spent on hospitals.

Jean Whitle, Wodonga
  Novocastrian Junior Train Controller

G'day ,

What sort of facilities and sidings exist at the junction of the Oaklands line and the NE line ?

I am not saying this a cost-effective solution , but just a suggestion for discussion.

One solution could be to have a captive BG loco and flat wagons on the Oaklands branch ( conveyed by truck or bogie exchange ) .

The grain could be containerised and transhipped by a hastily erected gantry crane at the junction to SG trains.

Like I said , it is one option , but I am not claiming it is the best  Smile
  Novocastrian Junior Train Controller

Hang on chaps , I have a better idea !

A captive BG train can collect the grain , dump it at the junction , and reload into SG trains with one those portable grain elevator contraptions . ( A farmer , I ain't ! )
  peterg Station Master

Location: Condobolin NSW hometown Wodonga
Hmmm, Let me get this straight, the Victorian Government should contribute to a rail line that has four silos in New South Wales. There must be a raft of silos between Benalla and Yarrawonga? No?

This is a line that NSW chopped off years ago. Reality is about to bite. I think the Oaklands branch is destined to be a historic line fairly soon.
  dalts 1985 Banned

Location: Banned
A summery of whats to happen, kindly provided by Roderick B Smith:

South Dynon Rail Operations Precient:

South Dynon - new DG carriage wash plant, changes to loco/carriage maintenance facilities.

South Dynon Junction near Dock Line Road - completely re-worked with new layout that links to the Dynon-Tottenham project & which provides parallel moves through the area & direct DG access from North Dynon to the Port precinct, plus associated signalling.

Construction of the so-called 'missing link' which involves duplication of the DG track betwn South Dynon Junction & new double DG lead to Appleton & Swanson Docks (the latter is currently under construction -known as DPRL - Dynon Port Rail Link) plus consequential re-working of several tracks in the PN Melbourne Operations Terminal including conversion of Shaw's Siding tracks from BG to SG.

Dual-gauging & re-signalling of W track (this is the sharply curved triangle that comes around the east side of PN's LPC).

Construction of Passing Lane 1 which involves dual gauging of the present BG goods line for 6.7km betwn McIntyre Loop & near Tullamarine Loop. This will have 80km/h turnouts each end of the SG line leading into gauge splitters on the present BG.

It also involves re-construction of the BG line with DG concrete sleepers & new 50kg/m rail. Tullamarine Loop is then removed.

Broadmeadows Stn Precient:

Construction of a 180m SG platform at Broadmeadows on the eastern side of the corridor, Also involves a slue of the SG main line to the east, leaving room for a future 2nd SG track betwn it & the BG Up platform.

Passing Lanes:

Passing Lanes 2, 3 & 4 are part of the original N-S project & are already under construction, separately to this project.

PL 2 has been severely curtailed & is now only a 900m extension of Donnybrook Loop in the Down direction.
It was originally going all the way to Wallan, then cut back to Beveridge & is now only an 1800m long loop with the existing Down end turnout simply relocated.

PL3 (starting on the Up end of Kilmore East then for continues 6.7km in the Down direction)

PL 4 (starting at the Down end of Tallarook, then continues for 6.7km in the Up direction) are well underway, with 80km/h turnouts already laid in. Broadford Loop will be removed.

Seymour Stn Precient:

Seymour's entire current layout gets a major re-work.

The existing SG main line gets slued into the present Up platform leading to an 80km/h turnout just past "High St Level Crossing" which is the start of the double line.

A high speed crossover betwn the two tracks 2km beyond Seymour (just beyond the old Hume Highway crossing) facing trains in the Down direction from the new West line. The SG loco siding is being extended to form an emergency runaround with 171m clear standing room, enough for an XPT or 7 car loco hauled set.

A new 160m BG platform is to be built on the present Nos. 4 & 5 roads in Seymour Yard, which will have a Down end connection to a future DMU stabling facility on the site of the old livestock yards. Whilst mainly for local trains, the new BG platform will also have access to the GV line. Obviously, considerable re-signalling is also involved.

This new layout within Seymour Stn Precient, retains complete separation (apart from the lead to the present Loco Depot & SRHC Heritage Rail Operations Depot Precient) betwn the SG & BG, thus  avoids the need for any DG work.

Seymour - Wodonga Track Works:

The Up end of the existing SG Seymour Loop is supposed to be retained as a works siding.

Riggs Creek Loop will be temporarily converted to SG until the signalling is ready, after which it will be removed.

Longwood Loop, Benalla Loop, Glenrowan Loop, Alumatta Loop & Chiltern Loop will all be dis-established.
Violet Town Loop will be retained as a works siding.

Seymour-Wodonga BG line will be re-constructed with concrete sleepers using a track laying machine & becomes the new west line.
Most of the existing rail will be re-used. Initially it will retain Train Order working for a few months until the signalling is commissioned.

Signalling wise: Seymour-Wodonga will basically be uni-directional with 18 min average headways.
However, both lines will be signalled for limited bi-directional working with no follow-on moves & long sections, ie Seymour-Benalla, Benalla-Wangaratta & Wangaratta-Wodonga.

New Stn Platforms betwn Seymour & Wodonga:

New 160m long platforms will be provided alongside the existing SG line (east line) at Avenel, Euroa, Violet Town, Springhurst & Chiltern.

80km/h crossovers will be provided at each end of Benalla & Wangaratta to allow all passenger trains (including XPT) access to the main platforms at these locations.

Benalla - Oaklands Branch Line:

The future of the Benalla-Oaklands line & connections into Benalla yard remain unresolved at this stage.

Wodonga Bypass & Wodonga Stn Precient:

Similarly to Seymour, a high speed crossover will be provided 2km on the Upside of the Wodonga bypass start (ie where the double line ends).
The Up end of Wodonga Loop will most likely be also retained as a works siding, like the Up end of the existing SG Seymour Loop, which is supposed to be retained as a works siding, possible continued access to Masterfoods siding (also not yet finally resolved).

The new bypass starts near the current Up End Wodonga Loop & will be a single SG line now all the way to the Up End Albury yard.

The new Wodonga Station will face the mainline with a 180m long platform about 1km from the start of the bypass.

Wodonga Coal sidings (SG only of course) will remain for some years with a connection to it just on the Up side of the Murray River bridge.

The current sidings will be re-worked to provide a single long road for loading of the log train which runs most days to Geelong (North Shore).
The new SG facilities at North Geelong & North Shore are due for commissioning in January 2009. The Bandiana line & container terminal there will remain open until the bypass is commissioned in mid-2010, however most of the traffic is expected to transfer in the meantime to Collin Rees new terminal at Ettamogah, construction of which started last week.

Albury Stn Precient:

Albury is still being resolved, however ARTC now seems to prefer constructing a new passenger stabling siding & runaround for V/Line trains just beyond the Sydney end of the platform rather than convert the present BG dock platform. This is to do with problems with the interlocking at the former Albury South Box. V/Line is agreeable to this.

Rolling-stock wise in regards to V/Line NE Services: - 3 N Class Locos & 3 x 5-car N Sets are to be converted, as previously announced.
The 3x 5-car N Sets to be converted, will be re-furbished & re-done in the new red and grey V/Line livery.

Closure of the existing NE BG Line

Timing is still being resolved, but at this stage it looks like the BG will cease operating beyond Seymour on 1 November 2008, after which buses will operate all V/line Seymour-Albury Services, until V/Line resumes services betwn Seymour & Albury on the now converted & vastly upgraded line on 1 July 2009.

Schedules have been agreed betwn V/Line & Countrylink because the two services are then integrated with common fares & ticketing.

Changes to future Melb. Southern Cross Stn Workings:

The Overland's current timetables, will also have to change slightly to accommodate the 5 daily NE-Service Departures & Arrivals, that will use the now DG Platforms 1 & 2 at Southern Cross Stn.

The new DG trackwork & Platform 2 dual runarounds: 2C Loco Release to road 2B & 2N Centre to Road 2B, for this purpose, gets commissioned this coming Queens Birthday Wkend (June 6 - 9), together with the new SSI interlocking in No# 1 box.
  peterg Station Master

Location: Condobolin NSW hometown Wodonga
Speedy....  I'm sorry to say that I am familiar with the writer of that letter to The Age. The writer is of course entitled to their opinion, but some of those facts that she spouts are just plain clap-trap designed to frighten the unwary.

For example, even though I don't have the actual specs. for the new bridges planned in the new Wodonga Rail Bypass, I can confidently say that it would have at least equal flood capacity as the old rail viaducts and the Lincoln Causeway. These older viaducts have quite a proportion of embankment between them. The idea that the new rail bridges need to be "square" to the river is plain ludicrous. The bridges are proposed to be constructed using the new "concrete channel" bridge system, and the idea of seriously altered flood flows is just not an issue.

May I point out the writer is an ardent advocate of retaining the rail corridor in its current antiquated position through the CBD of Wodonga and this is another outpouring to scare locals and now Melburnians into thinking the Wodonga Rail Bypass must be stopped. Thankfully, on Friday the Victorian Premier and the David Marchant CEO of the ARTC, just put an end to this log running saga, well, hopefully.

Cheers Pete

http://www.ghd.com.au/aptrixpublishing.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/PP+ConcreteStructures+PDF/$FILE/Shepherd_ConcreteStructures.pdf[/url][/quote]
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

One can not build / alter any existing major bridge across a major river without the approval of the relevant Catchment Authority. This would have already been done with the local Authority . The main rail bridge over The Murray main stream remains as is.

Also in this case being so close to the Hume Weir, whilst the level of the mainstream can have dramatic rises and falls within a short period, it is all controlled tightly with planned and disciplined releases from the Hume Weir .
Normal controlled releases do not cause any overflow outside the mainstream .

Another armchair expert no doubt without any specific qualifications or expertise stirring up some action, and the lazy Media falling for the old trick again and publishing it as fact.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
dalts 1985 and Roderick B Smith thanks for the summary of what is planned to happen in the NE.  Good to get accurate information.
  Novocastrian Junior Train Controller

Yes , a good point about the Vic. Govt. servicing NSW silos.

The push could come from farmers to gain funding to extend the NSW SG back to Oaklands and further south.
  gy Junior Train Controller

Thank you Dalts 1985 for your definitive post of the changes about to be made to the NE Broad Gauge line.
I sincerely hope the construction costs and implementation of the project proceeds to plan as perhaps the Goverment may see after it is not that difficult after all and convert the rest of the Victorian Country lines.
I am sure other people will have opinions regards the proposed plans;are they the  most effective etc but from a railway enthusiests point of view this is the best news since the standardization of the line to Adelaide.
Two hundred kilometers of rail conversion is at least a start in the right direction and may it continue.
Does anyone know if the Oaklands branch has a chance of conversion or will it be a victim of the drought?
PTE.
  dan Train Controller

Location: East Gippsland, Victoria
Very intresting indeed. good to see our rail system finally head in the right direction. will be intresting to see if the oaklands branch is done as well. with the focus on rail freight lately it would be a back wards step if it wasnt re-gauged.
  Boss Chief Commissioner

Location: Caulfield Line
Very intresting indeed. good to see our rail system finally head in the right direction. will be intresting to see if the oaklands branch is done as well. with the focus on rail freight lately it would be a back wards step if it wasnt re-gauged.
"dan"

Does anyone know what it would cost to re-gauge the Oaklands Branch line?
  tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Does anyone know about passenger trains in Wodonga?

Will it be that, when trains stop this November, will that be the last passenger train into the current Wodonga railway station?

Or, will they convert the track past it, only to replace it later when the bypass is done?
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
G'day ,

What sort of facilities and sidings exist at the junction of the Oaklands line and the NE line ?

I am not saying this a cost-effective solution , but just a suggestion for discussion.

One solution could be to have a captive BG loco and flat wagons on the Oaklands branch ( conveyed by truck or bogie exchange ) .

The grain could be containerised and transhipped by a hastily erected gantry crane at the junction to SG trains.

Like I said , it is one option , but I am not claiming it is the best  Smile
"Novocastrian"


An article in IIRV "Land" newspaper reported that one of the big wheat companies AWB or GWB exports quite a lot of grain in ISO containers.

According to RA, the break of gauge in the proposed Egypt-Sudan link (1435mm/1067mm) is to be solved by "Technical Measures" whatever that means. Perhaps Technical Measures could provide a solution to the break of gauge of the Oaklands branch at Benalla  Question

See http://railwaysafrica.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2774&Itemid=35

BTW, it would be sensible to put Oaklands Branch gauge conversion into a separate thread.
  5814 Chief Train Controller

Many thanks to those contributing info on this thread - have been looking in vain for updates on ARTC or Federal Dept of Infrastructure sites or even much detail on the Vic government sites. Good move too to open separate thread on the Oaklands branch - not to dismiss the importance of grain lines in general or particular but the viability of Sydney-Melbourne freight is a rather bigger topic ...? Who knows with this project going ahead at least we might see a southern sydney freight line actually happen (currently on Peter Garrett's desk I think?)
  NottaGunzel Banned

Location: Banned
Who knows with this project going ahead at least we might see a southern sydney freight line actually happen (currently on Peter Garrett's desk I think?)
"5814"



I don't think Garrett's own "Party Mates" trust him with anything more than Plastic Bags  -  and that's probably a challenge for his "talents"  Razz
  SN7 Chief Commissioner

Let us hope that with all the millions being spent on tracks that some cash is utilised to create improved facilities for the smooth operation of services such as toilet exhuming facilities at both Seymour & Albury as well as a sprinter / vlocity fuel point at Seymour.

With all the big bucks spent by the Victorian government on the RFR - not one cent was allocated to these essential items, and V/Line are paying the price for this severe lack of foresight and forward planning.

However if they use the same brain dead consultants used during RFR expect noting other than cost blow outs and media spin. - and no practical solutions and customers to suffer.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Will the upgraded NE line be fitted with TPWS or ATP, including the XPTs?
  dalts 1985 Banned

Location: Banned
Will the upgraded NE line be fitted with TPWS or ATP, including the XPTs?
"awsgc24"


Fitting the XPT's with the Victorian TPWS Safeworking system may be hard to do, as remember, all XPT Power Cars inclusive, currently run on the Melb. - Syd. - Melb. XPT Services, from the Dwn end (Melb. End) of Albury Platform at the old Albury Sth Box, this Victorian TWPS Safeworking system would be redundent, as you enter/leave NSW Territory, depending on the services direction of travel, eg: Nth-Bound Syd. Bound Services, or Sth-Bound Melb. Bound Services...

The only way to work around this, for working over Victorian Territory, with the TWPS Safeworking System, is as follows:

The XP Power Cars are fitted with a GPS Satelite system that deteches the XPT's current position (Something I think they are already capable of, as I know the white dome on the roof contains the NSW RailCorp Area Required CountryNet Radio & GPS location locator), the TWPS system would be wired into this system to automatically detect the the NSW & Victorian Operational Boundary & automatically enable/disable & arm/disarm the Victorian Territory-only-required TWPS Safeworking System as required. A base-station could be ideally located in the old Albury Sth Box with a Areial on the roof emitting the required signal, as the Syd. Bound XPT Services approaches & clears Albury Sth Box & come to a stop at Albury Stn, once the Rear XP Unit is in clear of the Fouling point of the mainline, a signal is emitted that automatically disables the Victorian Territory-only-required TWPS Safeworking System in both the lead & rear XP Powercars, this the TWPS System is disarmed, at the same time it sends a radio message to NCCS Junee: ST:?:Question Train Complete Albury Stn, Victorian TPWS Safeworking System Disarmed.  The driver will also be able to hear this annouce over their CountryNet Radio.

Simularly for Melb. Bound XPT Services, as they approaches the Syd. Bound XPT Service the old Albury Sth Box, with a Areial on the roof emitting a signal, once the Rear XP Unit is clear of the Fouling point of the platform & safely out on the mainline, a signal is emitted that automatically enables the Victorian Territory-only-required TWPS Safeworking System in both the lead & rear XP Powercars, this the TWPS System is armed, it sends a radio message to NCCS Junee: ST:?:Question Train Complete Albury Sth Box, Clear to proceed to X Section, Victorian TPWS Safeworking System Armed & Active. The driver, once again will also be able to hear this annouce over their CountryNet Radio.
  fast01 BUTTSCRATCHER!

Location: Somewhere your not.
TPWS would be a pretty bad idea, unless you either 1. Fit every SG locomotive across Australia that could potentially enter Victorian soil with TPWS or similar to what Dalts has said or, 2. Make one SG line Passenger and the other Freight Which almost defies the whole point of this project in the first place.

ATC with Concrete Sleepers capable of handling 130kmh for Pass and 115kmh - 130kmh for freight is good enough.
  dalts 1985 Banned

Location: Banned
TPWS would be a pretty bad idea, unless you either:
1) Fit every SG locomotive across Aust. that could potentially enter Vic. soil with TPWS or similar to what Dalts has said or
2) Make One SG Line: Passenger Only & the other SG Line: Freight Only
"fast01"


Currently their is next too none of the freight locos operating over the RFR network that have the TWPS Safeworking System fitted. The idea of having the VLP Passenger Fleet & the XPT fitted with TWPS, is it would simply add that extra level of peace of mind/security in passenger safety...

CLK as the owner/operator of the XPT fleet & as a NSW Govn't Business Enterprise, trading as a Govn't Corporation, is it reasonable to expect CLK in the form of the NSW Govnt's DoT to foot the bill for installing TWPS in their XPT fleet, for effectively only one Interstate line that they operate over, where no other line on their network that they service, do they require the TWPS Safeworking System...

ATC with Concrete Sleepers capable of handling 130kmh for Pass & 115kmh - 130kmh for freight is good enough.
"fast01"


Would be nice it the XPT was able to do 160KPH: Seymour-Albury-Goulburn... could cut close to 45mins off the trip if you were lucky...
Infact I remember the PSS on the XPT on a recent journey, explaining about the late running, due to the on-going track works & the improvements the upgraded track would bring, one of these factors he indicated was the trackwork by laying concreate sleepers, it would allow the XPT to once again return to it's once previous top operational speed of 160KPH again, in the very near future.

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