Chemical treatment of timber sleepers

Bwana · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:31 am

Hi all

We've got a client involved it recycling timber sleepers. They are trying to find out how they were treated in the past - of particular interest is whether arsenic was used as an insecticide. If so, when (if at all) did they start/stop doing this? I assume we'll end up getting a sample to analyse for arsenic, but wondered if any of you would know if we're likely to find any.

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42101 · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:37 am

Look for cyanide as well they stopped treating them around 10 years ago and any older than that should have it mostly leached out of them.
We have no special instructions given to us when handling them as we pull the old ones out so i would say they are mostly safe.

Banned

Bwana · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm

Thanks for that Greg Cool

I'm not sure if we're set up for CN- but I'll check - chromatography is a possibility if we have a standard. I'm surprised they have used timber sleepers in the last 10 years at all.

I am SO moving to Victoria Street!!

Check out my pics at http://bwana.fotopic.net

ShowMeTheMoney · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:51 pm

Perhaps something else to consider is the poison trains or Hi-rails that regularly spray herbicide on a regular basis and what was used.

5915 · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:02 pm

Herbicides commonly used should be of little concern to those wanting to re-use sleepers.

Products in common use include glyphosate (AKA Roundup), Krovar (diuron + hexazinone), Oust (sulfometuron). As far as I know, this has not changed much over the past 15-20 years.

As all these products are quite water soluble, they are not likely to become impregnated into timber and the fact that applications for weed control are required at least on an annual basis (sometimes much more often), indicates that the persistence of the products used is not particularly long.

5915

simont141 · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:50 pm

Creasote was the big one, especially with pine sleepers. You'll find most of the wooden sleepers in the Adelaide metro system are treated with creasote. It's brilliant stuff - it not only keeps the termites and such out, but it does a great job at preserving the wood. The sleepers won't warp or be eaten away at all, even after 20/30 years being in the ground.

Unfortunately it's not very good for people when handled, so it's usage it's fairly restricted I understand, and special precautions need to be taken when you do handle it.

Simon

www.prr.org.au

halv4539 · Beginner Joined: Sep 17, 2008 Last Visited: Sep 18, 2008

I’m working on an alterations and additions to a fibro house in Berry NSW and would like to do a detached couple of rooms using recycled railway sleepers as external / internal lining . The issue I have at the moment is that the sleepers to be used need to be basically untreated hardwood and AS3959 -1999 level 3 construction suitable (there are 5 species, can only recall iron bark & Turpentine).

My understanding is that, in the past, sleepers were treated with Cyanide & arsenic that was used as an insecticide. Herbicides were also used. Apparently, these products are quite water soluble, and not likely to become impregnated into timber.

I noticed that you have discussed the topic and wonder if someone ended up carrying a test. if not, does anyone know which body regulates this type of thing?

We would really like to do the extension in this material, I think railway sleepers could be very versatile if safe.

Thnaks

simont141 · Posted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:17 pm

Have a read of this, chaps: http://www.railwaysleeper.com/railway%20sleeper%20treatments.htm . It seems to be European, but it gives some good info.

Creosote was the treatment of choice, not the others.

Simon

www.prr.org.au

halv4539 · Beginner Joined: Sep 17, 2008 Last Visited: Sep 18, 2008

Thanks Simon,

The supplier of this product mentioned to me that 90% of the timber he gets is untreated anyway. He said he could pic the creasote & tar treated sleepers from the ones that have not been treated. However he is not in a position of providing a certificate for the purpose of using the material as wall cladding. I'm not sure how to take this as there is no record indicating that railways NSW installed untreated hardwood sleepers. Do you know if untreated sleepers have been laid in the past? if so how long ago?

Thanks