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Knowitall
Banned
Joined: Mar 25, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 14, 2008
Location: Banned
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:49 am
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Not close enough to an election year to make that much of a difference
Banned
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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| Speed |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:04 pm
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If the government continues with Connex, there's a dissatisfied train users will become disaffected with the government. If the government appoints a new operator, there's a risk that those train users will find that who operates the network makes little difference (the factors determining satisfaction being service-level agreements and the available infrastructure & rolling-stock) and become disaffected with the government.
Either way, there is a political risk.
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DalyWaters
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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| DalyWaters |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:30 pm
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| Quote: | | Either way, there is a political risk. |
You mean, either way the Government are finally going to be held accountable.
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EvanC
Chief Plonker
Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 25, 2008
Location: Seymour/Bayswater, Victoria
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| EvanC |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:35 pm
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| Tremere wrote: | | KeolisDownerEDI ... will they use a Bombardier solution if they want rollingstock? |
DownerEDI (EDI Rail) build trains, often in partnership with Bombardier (eg; Perth).
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dbowen
Train Controller
Joined: Nov 16, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Melbourne
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| dbowen |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:13 pm
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| 574M wrote: | | dbowen wrote: | MTR
Keolis
Veolia (Connex)
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Care to comment for our benefit, Daniel?
What are the pluses and minuses of these (potential) operators? |
Assuming none of them are completely incompetent, it's the structure and conditions of the contracts, as well as the ongoing funding of infrastructure and fleet changes, and the government's role in planning and network co-ordination and management that are likely to make the biggest differences to passengers.
Daniel
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Far away yet close at hand in images of elsewhere
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| Gwiwer |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:52 pm
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In professional and operational terms I agree, but too many passengers will still perceive the biggest "changes" to be any relivery of the trains be that internally, externally or both.
Connex has indicated consistently that they will not be adopting the red house colours of parent Veolia but any new franchisee would not wish to retain the existing schemes for any longer than was necessary.
The UK journal "Railway Magazine" published an enlightening article last year on the costs involved by both incoming and outgoing franchisees including references to rebranding. It may not be appreciated widely that there are not insignificant costs to the incumbent in actually losing a franchise.
Why MYKI? It isn't mine and it's not a key.
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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Kerpal
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jul 17, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Waiting for an express that'll never come ...
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:29 pm
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| Gwiwer wrote: | | The UK journal "Railway Magazine" published an enlightening article last year on the costs involved by both incoming and outgoing franchisees including references to rebranding. It may not be appreciated widely that there are not insignificant costs to the incumbent in actually losing a franchise. |
Perhaps all train livery and station signage should be branded with a generic logo and name (MetLink?) so that re-branding is not necessary when the franchisee is changed.
I was quite disappointed to see Connex's logo plastered on the new MetLink signage.
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Puttaparthi, India
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| 574M |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:22 pm
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| Kerpal wrote: |
[snip]
I was quite disappointed to see Connex's logo plastered on the new MetLink signage. |
The reality is everything above the railhead is tendered out to private operators now. So its always gonna be rebranded every x years.
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alstom_888m
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 26, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 23, 2008
Location: Craigieburn Suburban Railway Line, Melbourne
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| alstom_888m |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:24 pm
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Connex renewing their contract will not be popular with the government. It's doesn't matter what we know, 99% of daily commuters blame Connex. And therefore, renewing Connex will be political suicide.
2009 is the next election right?
Reliable, Economical, Safe, By Rail.
Away for Summer. Won't be on RP.
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fogcv
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: The Burnley Group
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:49 pm
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| alstom_888m wrote: | | 2009 is the next election right? |
No.
The next Victorian state election is on November 27th, 2010.
The Ghost of (Sir) John Monash (Circa 1931)
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Puttaparthi, India
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| 574M |
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:11 pm
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| alstom_888m wrote: | Connex renewing their contract will not be popular with the government. It's doesn't matter what we know, 99% of daily commuters blame Connex. And therefore, renewing Connex will be political suicide.
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I think by now there is sufficient public awareness that annual passenger journeys have increased and will increase even more and it is not the fault of Connex that peak hour travel conditions are what they are. Most lay the fault at the feet of previous governments of yesteryear.
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fogcv
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: The Burnley Group
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:55 pm
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| Quote: | | I think by now there is sufficient public awareness that annual passenger journeys have increased and will increase even more and it is not the fault of Connex that peak hour travel conditions are what they are. |
As outlined in the press ...
Commuters' fit of peak as Melbourne trains fill up
"FEELING a bit squashed? It's probably because an extra 100,000 Melburnians a day have squeezed on to our public transport system in the past year. Metlink figures for an average weekday show 1.5 million commuters jam trains, trams and buses, with packed-out peak times dragging out to almost six hours a day. " ...
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24258720-2862,00.html
City's trains buckling under record demand
"OVERCROWDING on Melbourne's trains has reached record levels, with almost every suburban line breaching recommended passenger limits during peak periods.
The figures, contained in Connex's latest survey of overcrowding, show the network is buckling under unprecedented demand." ...
http://www.theage.com.au/national/citys-trains-buckling-under-record-demand-20080823-40xi.html
The Ghost of (Sir) John Monash (Circa 1931)
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steveo2004
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 19, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 30, 2008
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Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:24 pm
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What I would like to know is if MTR (MTM) or some other group gets the deal, will staff pay go down? or up? will we lose all the bonuses that we have all ready? How will it work in with the RTBU?
Having a new group to run the network is one thing, but how will they look after the staff? Will the goverment be looking in to all that as well?
Proud to be one of the last 3 Gate Keepers in Melbourne
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The Met
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 2, 2009
Location: 37.55-S /145.01-E
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| The Met |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:06 pm
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| dbowen wrote: | | ...it's the structure and conditions of the contracts, as well as the ongoing funding of infrastructure and fleet changes, and the government's role in planning and network co-ordination and management that are likely to make the biggest differences to passengers. |
Infrastructure and fleet - both Government controlled, and unless it changes, we will be forever stuck with our sardine cans.
Doesn't matter if you had the A-Team or something running it, you can't run more trains than you have.
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| steveo2004 wrote: | What I would like to know is if MTR (MTM) or some other group gets the deal, will staff pay go down? or up? will we lose all the bonuses that we have all ready? How will it work in with the RTBU?
Having a new group to run the network is one thing, but how will they look after the staff? Will the goverment be looking in to all that as well? |
Well considering they want to appeal to their staff, they would have to treat them pretty well. I'd say that Yarra Trams have probably benefited their staff better than perhaps a decade ago. Can't say much about Connex, i'm guessing it's at an acceptable level - could be improved?
"People are pretty much alike. It's only that our differences are more susceptible to definition than our similarities." - Linda Ellerbee
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