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bevans
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 11, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| bevans |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:03 pm
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The Federal Government and its infrastructure advisory group are calling for public submissions about the sorts of projects which should be developed.
Infrastructure Australia is the body which will administer the government's $20 billion fund for road, rail, broadband and other infrastructure projects.
It will give a priority list of projects to Federal and State Governments in March of next year.
Infrastructure Minister Anthony Albanese has told Channel Nine community members and business groups have until October 15 to provide their ideas on what should be included in that list.
"We want community input, not into the local roads and local things that need fixing as important as they may be but what community members and the private sector think are the nation building projects that are required over coming years," he said.
ABC
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So what projects should be funded?
Brian
RP2 - Project Director
The Hon Peter Garrett, every performance a sell-out!
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Maikha
Not a gunzel
Joined: Sep 06, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Wagga Wagga, NSW
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| Maikha |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:58 pm
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A bypass to be built through Bathurst, similar to an Albury one
Cheers
Maikha Ly
The Intercity Platform & Valve Gear Media!
http://www.theintercityplatform.com/
Comments made are that of my own, and do not reflect those of organisations mentioned. |
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Fireman Dave
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Probably Filthy McFaddens
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| Fireman Dave |
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:17 pm
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Double line Junee-Albury and Seymour-Melbourne.
Dave Malcolm
DRIVER, PN CMD
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:42 pm
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| Fireman Dave wrote: | | Double line Junee-Albury and Seymour-Melbourne. |
More double line Junee-Albury and Seymour-Melbourne, not necessarily 100%. If necessary, more passing lanes and 1800m loops.
Lengthen all short loops from Serviceton to Adelaide to 1800m. Extra pehaps extra long loops where sections are excessively long, or gradients steep.
Merrygoen triangle to facilitate diversions.
Binnaway triangle. Gulgong triangle? Binnaway triangle?
Last edited by awsgc24 on Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Fireman Dave
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Probably Filthy McFaddens
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| Fireman Dave |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:57 pm
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| awsgc24 wrote: | | Fireman Dave wrote: | | Double line Junee-Albury and Seymour-Melbourne. |
More double line Junee-Albury and Seymour-Melbourne, not necessarily 100%. If necessary, more passing lanes and 1800m loops. |
Why not? it's flat easy country to do. The costs involved in full double track would not be considerably higher than only doing a half arsed job (like they are doing currently).
Dave Malcolm
DRIVER, PN CMD
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409
Minister for Railways
Joined: Jul 25, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 4, 2009
Location: "Well, we sorta hit a little snag when the universe sorta collapsed on itself."
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| 409 |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:17 pm
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Extension of the Noarlunga Centre line from Noarlunga Centre to Seaford (atleast), a distance of 5kms or so. The SA Government has all the land bought up (and has had the land for nearly 20 years) specifically for use as a railway. The current 2008/2009 budget State Budget has also set aside funds to buy a land corridor from Seaford to Aldinga, again for use as a railway. The present line from Adelaide to Noarlunga Centre has already got funding for a rebuild from the ground up.
All the land is there and the current line is being upgraded and electrified, why not extend at the same time?
2008 BOGIE AWARD WINNER - Best Contribution to Model Railways
 LINK TO YOUTUBE PROFILE
"I'd use an 830 for my respirator!" |
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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| mjja |
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Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:15 pm
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http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2008/August/AA121_2008.htm
The pertinent bit is:
| Quote: | Submissions should be no more than 15 pages and sent to mail@infrastructureaustralia.gov.au with "Submission" in the subject field.
Although email is preferred, submissions may be lodged via post and should be addressed to:
The Infrastructure Coordinator
Infrastructure Australia
GPO Box 594
CANBERRA 2601 |
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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fabricator
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Gawler
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SEMartin
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 9, 2008
Location: Melbourne VIC
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| SEMartin |
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:00 am
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Let's forget gunzel dreams that throw good money after bad on largely irrelevant railway lines such as:
| Maikha wrote: | | A bypass to be built through Bathurst, similar to an Albury one |
and push for the program of grade and curve easings and deviations outlined for Sydney-Melbourne (Hoare [Bowning-Frampton], Centennial [Goulburn-Yass Junction] and Wentworth [Glenlee-Mittagong] deviations) from the ARTC's Interstate Track Audit (2001).
Those works would cost around $1.2 billion (plus contingency) in today's money and would get average transit times for Superfreighters down to around 10 hours with a high level of reliability.
More work could be also done outside submissions to ensure that IA funding is tied to shared road/rail corridor improvements, so for example the duplication of the Pacific Highway between Sydney and Brisbane would require the rail line to be added to the scope of improvements where it runs close to the road corridor. This is important because 'transport' projects will be competing for IA money against water, energy and communications infrastructure projects.
I also think AWSGC24's suggestions for some relatively minor works (along with upgrading to axle loadings and track standards) that add flexibility to the North-South corridor (Merrygoen, Gulgong triangles) are worthwhile investments also.
SM
"One measure of a civilised and compassionate society is the extent of its provision of public transport. Violence, materialism and the self-centred pursuit of success at any cost are often the hallmarks of a car-dominated society." J. Richards & J. MacKenzie - The Railway Station: A Social History
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:10 pm
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| SEMartin wrote: | Let's forget gunzel dreams that throw good money after bad on largely irrelevant railway lines such as:
| Maikha wrote: | | A bypass to be built through Bathurst, similar to an Albury one |
and push for the program of grade and curve easings and deviations outlined for Sydney-Melbourne (Hoare [Bowning-Frampton], Centennial [Goulburn-Yass Junction] and Wentworth [Glenlee-Mittagong] deviations) from the ARTC's Interstate Track Audit (2001).
Those works would cost around $1.2 billion (plus contingency) in today's money and would get average transit times for Superfreighters down to around 10 hours with a high level of reliability.
More work could be also done outside submissions to ensure that IA funding is tied to shared road/rail corridor improvements, so for example the duplication of the Pacific Highway between Sydney and Brisbane would require the rail line to be added to the scope of improvements where it runs close to the road corridor. This is important because 'transport' projects will be competing for IA money against water, energy and communications infrastructure projects.
I also think AWSGC24's suggestions for some relatively minor works (along with upgrading to axle loadings and track standards) that add flexibility to the North-South corridor (Merrygoen, Gulgong triangles) are worthwhile investments also.
SM |
Gradients can be overcome by better/more locomotives, so regrading is not necessarily a priority. There would be a large fuel saving if summits can be lowered with deeper summit cuttings, such as at Gunning and Demondrille and perhaps Heathcote Junction.
Refuging facilities for long trains are needed every so often and it can be very painful if they do not exist often enough. Even more so on single lines, where 2/3 of the North Coast loops and 2/3 of the Serviceton-Adelaide are shorter than the standard long train length of 1500m.
It is more important to lengthen short loops than to regrade, as a general rule.
On the North Coast of NSW, significant curve and gradient improvements are possible only if deviations of 50km to 100km length are made costing say $500. Otherwise you will make small improvements on short sections that will be bypassed by decent deviations later on. Concentrate therefore on lengthening short loops. Curves can be eased more easily if the ruling gradient is steepened from a generous 1 in 80 to say 1 in 66 compensated to match the ruling grade elsewhere.
Between Junee and Melbourne curves and gradients are reasonable mild, and as someone said elsewhere duplication would be easy, except for a few obstacles such as the Goulburn River bridge at Seymour. Since the summit at Heathcote Junction is, IIRC, fairly gentle, it is not really possible to deepen the summit cutting by much to easy the 1 in 48 ruling grade.
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:18 pm
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| Maikha wrote: | | A bypass to be built through Bathurst, similar to an Albury one |
And make it harder for young gunzels to watch and hear the trains? You have to be kidding!
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GeoffreyHansen
Minister for Railways
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 24, 2008
Location: Waiting for the next commuter service to Bathurst
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| GeoffreyHansen |
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:25 am
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| awsgc24 wrote: | | Maikha wrote: | | A bypass to be built through Bathurst, similar to an Albury one |
And make it harder for young gunzels to watch and hear the trains? You have to be kidding! |
What about improving the alignment between Lithgow and Bathurst so as to reduce journey times to Sydney?
I would suggest building Light Rail in Canberra and building a VHST line. The latter could be a project for national pride like some of the high speed lines in other countries.
Bring the 3900s back to Brisbane
Bring Karlsruhe Tramtrains to Australian cities
Extend the proposed Metro to Taylor Square
Extend the Gold Coast line to the Tweed
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SEMartin
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 9, 2008
Location: Melbourne VIC
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| SEMartin |
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:06 am
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| awsgc24 wrote: | | Gradients can be overcome by better/more locomotives, so regrading is not necessarily a priority. There would be a large fuel saving if summits can be lowered with deeper summit cuttings, such as at Gunning and Demondrille and perhaps Heathcote Junction. |
The deviations would provide a useful combination of regrading, curve easing and route shortening that would reduce transit times and lower fuel costs. I would argue the deviations are the top priority of investment in NSW on the north-south corridor.
| awsgc24 wrote: | | Refuging facilities for long trains are needed every so often and it can be very painful if they do not exist often enough. Even more so on single lines, where 2/3 of the North Coast loops and 2/3 of the Serviceton-Adelaide are shorter than the standard long train length of 1500m. |
Agree with you, and concur that Sydney-Brisbane is a key corridor for loop lengthening, although ARTC have this in hand. There is also scope for additional lengths of double-tracking and deviations to reduce travel times and increase reliability on this segment of the north-south.
| awsgc24 wrote: | It is more important to lengthen short loops than to regrade, as a general rule.
On the North Coast of NSW, significant curve and gradient improvements are possible only if deviations of 50km to 100km length are made costing say $500. Otherwise you will make small improvements on short sections that will be bypassed by decent deviations later on. Concentrate therefore on lengthening short loops. Curves can be eased more easily if the ruling gradient is steepened from a generous 1 in 80 to say 1 in 66 compensated to match the ruling grade elsewhere.
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Qualified agreement here - I would put loop lengthening as a 'soft option', especially if the loops are in the wrong places or, if they are in areas earmarked for deviations a waste of resources. The situation has gone beyond loop lengthening and bigger interventions are required to accommodate bigger trains. If they're going to cost $500 million to do, then do them now. It will never get any cheaper.
In terms of the Melbourne-Adelaide corridor, there is already a significantly higher market share of freight (~25% between the two cities and ~80% Melbourne-Perth) on rail, compared to the pitiful rail shares of freight on the Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane corridor.
More importantly, in a carbon-constrained economy and in a world running out of petroleum, significant investment in the interstate rail corridors (with the aim of raising the market share of freight on rail) is required as part of any GHG reduction strategy and in reducing Australia's reliance on imported fuels. As far back as 1996, BTRE showed that a modal shift of freight to rail was one of five 'no regrets' greenhouse gas reduction options.
| awsgc24 wrote: | | Between Junee and Melbourne curves and gradients are reasonable mild, and as someone said elsewhere duplication would be easy, except for a few obstacles such as the Goulburn River bridge at Seymour. Since the summit at Heathcote Junction is, IIRC, fairly gentle, it is not really possible to deepen the summit cutting by much to easy the 1 in 48 ruling grade. |
Fine, then ARTC need the money to duplicate as much of it as possible with the long term aim of bi-directional signalling, but the need is to concentrate on the biggest problems first - reduction of overall transit times (with consequent increases in reliability), fixing the approaches to Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane and removing excessive and small radius curvatures by building deviations on the north-south corridor.
"One measure of a civilised and compassionate society is the extent of its provision of public transport. Violence, materialism and the self-centred pursuit of success at any cost are often the hallmarks of a car-dominated society." J. Richards & J. MacKenzie - The Railway Station: A Social History
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SEMartin
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 9, 2008
Location: Melbourne VIC
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| SEMartin |
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:38 am
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| GeoffreyHansen wrote: | | What about improving the alignment between Lithgow and Bathurst so as to reduce journey times to Sydney? |
Why would you spend money on this corridor since it carries so little in the way of passengers and freight and has little potential to increase? Rather spend the money connecting the three largest cities in Australia by a fit for purpose freight railway that could absorb a modal shift from road to rail.
| GeoffreyHansen wrote: | | I would suggest building Light Rail in Canberra and building a VHST line. The latter could be a project for national pride like some of the high speed lines in other countries. |
Agree with you on these two - Canberra in the short term (a quick win to retrofit light rail into a car-dependent capital) and the VHST/VFT (especially between Sydney and Melbourne) to start absorbing a modal shift from air to rail on the fourth busiest air corridor in the world.
There would also be the advantages of synergies between a future VFT project and the 'high case' ARTC deviations on the Sydney-Melbourne corridor. Referring to one of my earlier posts on this topic, the Centennial Deviation between Goulburn and Yass Junction borrows significantly from the 1981 'T-Line' proposal (which also featured a spur to North Canberra) which was part of the original NCRE high-speed rail proposal. Equally, the ARTC track audit also had an option for a new, high speed alignment between Campbelltown and Goulburn developed as part of the Speedrail proposal. Conjointly, the Centennial and High-Speed deviations would cost about $900 million and benefit both freight and higher speed passenger services by cutting over an hour off current Sydney-Melbourne freight travel times (with significantly higher time savings for say a Tilt train or 1st generation VFT).
"One measure of a civilised and compassionate society is the extent of its provision of public transport. Violence, materialism and the self-centred pursuit of success at any cost are often the hallmarks of a car-dominated society." J. Richards & J. MacKenzie - The Railway Station: A Social History
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nutbagg
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Feb 11, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 3, 2009
Location: In Willy Wonka's Chocolate Lake
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Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:20 pm
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Rerail the DIRN for 30t/110km/h axle loads. Double stacking to the East coast as well.
Mate, if that loco pulls as hard as you do, it'd move anything.
I'd still rather have an ALCo.
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