Possible alternative freight routes.

David Peters · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:26 am

That Pressman is one problem, there really is no flat route at all, you may still need bank locomotives in the future on the new route, so that would essentially negate your savings, trains could get longer in the future and most possibly would!

With any grade you need the horsepower to get up the grade plus a bit in reserve for emergencies. Sure 2 NR's or something can haul X amount on a grade but if something should happen to them you may not have any reserve, however 3 NR's on the same train would give you a bit of reserve, it would also save fuel, as instead of having 2 NR's flat out , you have 3 NR's going at a more sedate pace but still able to haul your train up that grade!

There is more to it than that but you get the idea, less is not often better. I am not against the bypass at all, it is probably a good idea, but remember where ever it goes, there are still going to be grades and curves needed, it will not be dead flat and straight! Cool

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Pressman · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:36 am

And one other thing, it would need to be built to Double Stack standards.
If in sometime in the future the clearance problems in Victoria can be sorted, this by pass would need to be capable of handling it.

Pigeon, I still have some concerns about a route folowing some of the old BG tracks, still a lot of grades and curves that way.

Cheers,
Tony
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David Peters · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:06 pm

That is another good point there Pressman as some of these old broad gauge tracks had severe grades even though the track looked level, it would be better to use an all new alignment if possible so that you start from scratch on each section, it would also probably be cheaper too as you would not have to remove redundant perway formations etc to lay the new line! Cool

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Pressman · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:50 pm

yes David Peters, even if whoever does build the line, they would still need to purchase any part of the existing BG corridors they wished to use. They are owned by the State Government and in this day and age, they would NOT be given away, they would be sold at market value.

Cheers,
Tony
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pigeon · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:29 pm

kipioneer · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:44 pm

There is a southern route through Tooperang and Mt Compass.

The line would branch off just north of Tailem Bend with a new bridge, then across the Lake Plains to around Finniss, then up the Tooperang Creek(?) valley to Mount Compass and on to Myponga.

Getting it down the other side is more problematic - presumably you could come through Cactus Gully (where the Main South Road runs) then down the face of the hill to Willunga, then ???.

If it sticks as close as it can to the escarpment then it will need considerable earthworks to join up at Tonsley. It can be done with some considerable tunnelling around the back of the Happy Valley Reservoir and through the Onkaparinga Valley.

Alternatively it comes closer to the coast along the old Willunga alignment to join at Noarlunga Centre or even further south at Seaford.

But this would run into the same "freight trains don't mix in urban environments" arguments as we now have with the line through Belair.

Either way the length is about the same as now with much better grades and curvature which should bring improvements in transit time and savings in operating costs.

The cost? A lot - several ore wagon loads.

Neil - the KIPioneer
Hawthorn SA

Wilfy2007 · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:52 pm

ARG706 · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:57 pm

Assuming we're being hypothetical here, I'm intrigued about this alignment through Fords. Both sides of the former siding, the old Kapunda line has sharp curves, and notorious hills to circumnavigate. From memory, heading east of Fords the road goes uphill before levelling out a bit and entering more undulating hilly terrain. What would the ruling grade and curvature be in this deviation?

I would presume we would be seeing some frequent and enormously deep cuttings like that road cutting near Kapunda?

Pressman · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:13 pm

Aaron · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:40 am

Alco_Haulic · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:17 am

Pigeon, your route at first looks reasonable. But once you go to a topographic map, you quickly realise 1 in 100 grades east from "Morn Hill" would be necessary, and down into Fords would be almost impossible at that angle, without MAJOR earth works.

Moving further east, the area around Frankton and Dutton is just as bad as the current route.

It's a good idea, and probably one of the better ones, but without looking at good elevation maps it is really hard to do something like that.

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409 · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:58 am

I currently don't have time to look at the terrain maps myself but if the section between Morn Hill and Fords was altered somewhat with the line running slightly further south and then using the old BG alignment through Fords itself, would that work? A 1 in 100 gradient isn't bad compared to what we have now and besides, you can't eliminate all gradients.

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2001 · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:18 am

But where else might the Fed Government and ARTC show a keener view to investment of rail $$$ in the state ?

Duplication of Coonamia to Port Augusta perhaps.

I'd place a tenner that would come to fruition long before any Hills Bypass materializes.

2001

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Alco_Haulic · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:55 pm

1 in 100 is tame I know, but on the eastern side of the range the grade would be considerably worse, even with extreme earth works.

What was the rulling grade along the line to Morgan? Building a by pass from Mildura through the Riverland and then along the old Morgan alignment to Rose worthy could work. Then SG the line from there up to Balaklava, and lay a link over to Bowmans.

In that scenario you could either SG from Rosewrothy down to Gawler, and use Roseworthy as a marshalling point for Adelaide bound frieght. Or detach it and run it as a shunt from Bowmans.

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NathanCastle · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:20 pm