Potential Southern Highlands passenger line improvements

tbohlsennswssrg · Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:58 pm

TE2815 · Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:32 pm

Not sure what point the wikipedia quote is trying to make but:

RTT_Rules · Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:17 am

The $160m the NSW govt had to pay is chicken feed and only in part compensation for not maintaining and upgrading the Interstate network over the last 20 years. Comparison against Qld NCL.

- Late 80's sparked to Rocky on orginal route
- Mid 90's, NCL from Caboolture to Rocky given Australia's biggest rail realignment excluding the SG AS line. The route from Gladstone to Bundy is probably at least 25-33% new. Flying overhead the old and new rail alaignments look like a dollar sign $. Assume line was fully concrete sleepered at the time. This work required a fair bit of rework on the O/H, so forward planning could have been better.
- At some stage it has been CTC'ed from Brisbane to Townsville.
- Early 2000's line from Rocky to T'ville rebuilt on concrete sleepers with some "low hanging fruit" realignment undertaken. Line to Carins also rebuilt but using 100% steel sleepers.

This is ~1700km, about same from Qld to Vic border, with some spare. It doesn't go from capital to capital and doesn't carry any significant mineral freight apart from where coal routes parrellel's the NCL for short distances. The total population along the route and west of the route si probably less than 1.5m.

The agreement with ARTC means the state is still fully funding the ACT line (does ACT or Feds contribute?). So nothing stopping a complete rebuild here. The line from Goulburn to Macarthur may be in control of ARTC, but that doesn't stop the NSW govt contributing to a major rebuild program to reduce running times, which effectively increases line capacity thus giving them more room to run more trains to Canberra.

This is not a pissing contest, if the ARTC had $1B to reduce times by 60min and was targetting the best value for money and this was south of the Canberra branch, but NSW govt comes along and says we will give you another $1B and 60min is chopped off between Goulburn and Macurthur + capable of running 160+ Canberra trains, then the ARTC still gets the job done for its customers and shareholder. (Yes there maybe other reasons for the work further south). This would include full bi-di to fully uterlise the dual track to its best.

The ARTC are claiming 3hr savings for freights headed to Melbourne (same with Brisbane) with concrete sleepers and CTC, have any benefits being realised for CountryLink?

The only thing hard is that NSW govt is broke and it will take some pain elsewhere to get the funding.

Regards
Shane

BDA · Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:24 am

Well Shane possibly the pain (poor choice of words I know) could be felt by two other states that were being partly funded by NSW GST bucks poured into them while there was a coal and iron ore resources boom going on ... Still is actually .....

Countrylink , not even remotely close to being a majority user of that corridor - probably the most uneconomic user of it as well .
CLink get a pretty good leg up on that corridor because the NSW Goverments vulnerable "face" decrees that political correctness will spare ANY other operators services to keep it on time ...
If you think about it , the shorter the journey times it gets the more damage it's liable to do to any other services out there .

I think ARTC is doing alright for the miserly funding it gets , it's focus is on freight though political interference ensures maggot link gets more than it's share .

djf01 · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:06 pm

I'm going to throw up a couple of ideas here. I doubt any of them are ever likely to get up, but here goes:

1) Why not electrify just one of the two tracks from Macarthur (actually 100m south of the Glenlee Jtn) to Picton?

The electrified line could handle 1 EMU an hour that'd run stoppers Picton to Cambo, then express to the CBD (taken from a slot currently running Macarther - stoppers)

ARTC shouldn't have a problem with it, as it doesn't really reduce capacity on the Syd-Melb route, but it would allow Syd bound trains to queue on the freight only half of the Picton - Cambo section during the curfew.

And how to pay for it?

Tap the Fed's new "infrastructure fund", or even the future fund to compulsorily purchase a 3000m x 3000m site between Menangle and Douglas Park. Along with the rail electrification, build a new station, a freeway off ramp and overpass at "Menangle Heights", and reserve spots for the new Primary Schools, High School, and sell the rest as prime development sites.

As best I can gather, the going rate for hobby farms in the area is ~$100/m2. Dev sites are $200-$500/m2. A potential $2bil profit for a $1bil investment which would require somewhere between $500mil and $1bil of public works.

And if electrification to Picton - even if only single track - were done, I think that opens up the prospect of extending to Mittagong and Mossy via the Hilltop loop line. That alignment is too steep for efficient freight, but it'd be perfect for EMUs.

2) I'd like to see CityRail experiment with "bi-mode" EMU/DEMU hybrids. Assuming (and this is a *big* assumption) there is sufficient clearance in the tunnels, install a Cummings diesel generator (they weight about as much as 50 PAX) on the bottom deck of the power car of a couple of the older V sets.

2 sets could operate an "electric" Mossy - CBD 4 car V set service every 2 hours (almost), with the Endeavors running the alternate hour. As EMUs syd to Cambo & DMUs to Mossy.

If promoted correctly, this would provide much the same benefit as actual electrification without the same capital costs. If it works, then some new EMU/DMU hybrids could be ordered if and when funds become available.

drwaddles · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:27 pm

Please don't justify rail improvements with extra urban sprawl.

People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.

masspac · Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:54 pm

Correct me if i am wrong but i think you will find the mining companys have a 20year lease to mine underground in the Menangle area wich will stop any development in the area.

djf01 · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:17 am

drwaddles · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:02 am

SL66 · Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:43 pm

ONE WAY TO OPERATE A RAILWAY

The following occurred one day last week on the Southern Highlands Lines. They bring into focus the operating problems on this line.

Carset 2806/2856 was assigned to the 9.54am train from Campbelltown. This is a popular train as it carries a large number of daytrippers from Sydney. Mechanical problems arose and it departed from Bowral some 20 minutes late. The same carset returns from Moss Vale on the 11.36am service. Subsequently it too was some 20 minutes late. It is believed that the carset was failed on arrival at Campbelltown and despatched to Eveleigh for repairs.

The next service from Campbelltown at 1.10pm was replaced with 2 buses. It was almost 3.00pm before they departed from Bowral for Moss Vale. Meanwhile a large crowd of passengers had assembled for the 3.01pm departure for Campbelltown to be provided by the buses. By 3.00pm they numbered in excess of 100. I counted them. At 3.45pm the buses were still at Moss Vale. The passengers were restless. The lone station assistant was constantly harassed for information he did not have and could not get as well as a constant stream of requests to release the locks on the toilet doors.

It was about this time that many passengers boarded the next train to Moss Vale intending to return to Campbelltown when the carset reversed. There was some drama as everyone was forced out of the cars at Moss Vale while they shunted from the Down platform to the UP.

There were no spare carsets at either Moss Vale or Campbelltown.

The first conclusion from all of this is that there are only sufficient carsets available to meet the current timetable and allow all sets to rotate through regular maintenance. When problems arise there are no spare carsets.

The timetable is irregular. There are clearly not enough carsets to provide a regular hourly service. The basic 2 hourly frequency at weekends is inadequate. As with Newcastle and Kiama services, hourly is the minimum frequency to encourage residents to make good use of the service.

More carsets are required before a better timetable can be provided.

It took a team of professionals to build the "Titanic"
and a lone amateur to build the "Ark"

RTT_Rules · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:33 am

[quote="BDA"]Well Shane possibly the pain (poor choice of words I know) could be felt by two other states that were being partly funded by NSW GST bucks poured into them while there was a coal and iron ore resources boom going on ... Still is actually .....

quote]

Fortunately there is more to the economy than the GST and NSW and Vic with Qld coming fast have the larger slice of the huge heavy industry service industry, ie small to Medium enginering companies servicing the coal mines which actually only employ small numbers in comparison. The lower SE corner also has the bulk of the country's very high paid head offices and govt and all the support services that are part of them. The fact that Tas which has minimal mining left is also doing well shows the flow on effect from the mineral boom across the country. NSW had the Olympics to provide the extra boost and while they went well, has done nothing since.

NSW has only one thing to blame for its wooes, Carr No.1 and Iemma 2nd and the bunch of useless people who prop them up. Hopefully the latest bloke can do something as its not far that the people will suffer another 3 years of mismanagement before they get a chance to vote them out. With a Fed Labour govt, its unlikely they will survive another election as they don't have the anti Howard anti Lib support now. Qld was looking at 4 year foxed terms until recently, I think the No vote will simply use NSW as an example and 'nuff said.

Regards
Shane

PS I grew up on the CC of NSW, was a proud NSW'man and CC rail commuter but be buggered if I'd go back now.

Bwana · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:50 pm

BDA · Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:55 pm

I'm not going to defend the Corcus (Carcase) that New south Welshans didn't vote in , AND nothing can convince me that the last Federal Govt wasn't holding out on us here in NSW with our fair share of GST payments .

I wish there was some way that GST could be charged and returned as some useful benefit to those in the state that PAID it .

Surely none of you would be so naive as to suggest that states getting a cut of NSW GST payments are gonna nock it back , particularly when that other state is of the same political clan as the fed one - when the NSW govt isn't .

Difficult to have a win in Australia , Libs want to Rule not Govern and you couldn't trust Labor to balance a school lunch budget .

Downer and Brown are locked in a war of how green are my fishnets so what are you left with ?

Fatty O Barrel WILL sell the power off given any chance because it is the right factional thing to do .

simonl · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:05 am

BDA · Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:26 pm

Not sure if you got my meaning there - right meaning right wing thing to do not right as in correct thing to do .

Yeah sell it off why not , when it's run into the ground and no longer functional private industry can announce that it's no longer profitable (after overcharging us for the electricity) and toss it in .

When spark ticket prices double triple etc who's going to be able to afford to get around on them ?

And you want to string more wire up ?