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mje772003
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Joined: Sep 03, 2008
Last Visited: Oct 12, 2008
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:34 am
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when i lived in Melbourne i got around on trams and liked them more than buses. I would be nice to see a map of the old tram network.or even emailed to me would be great.
I think that they should have the whole network back and extend the lines to new areas as this can free up buses for other areas that are not covered by trams or trains.
I would like to be a tram driver too 
Cheers Matt
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Draffa
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Last Visited: Dec 29, 2008
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:09 pm
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| colinw_mk2 wrote: | | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Brisbane |
I like this bit:
| Quote: | | The plans escalated to a Queensland government tender for four company consortia to purchase new trams, construct and operate the system in 1999, the project was projected to cost $235 million AUD[2] but was subsequently vetoed in favour of expanding the existing bus network. |
Adjusted for Inflation (but ignoring increased commodity prices etc), it would cost $309 million. We currently directly subsidise private transport (Fuel rebate) to the tune of half a billion dollars a year.
Smart State indeed...
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mje772003
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:20 pm
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Note that there has been nothing more said in the media about it i think its gone on deaf ears once again or Can't do Campbell has some how silenced the whole thing so his precious " exhaust pumping buses are priority.
Matt
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bunza
Assistant Commissioner
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Location: Gold Coast
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| bunza |
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:42 pm
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| Draffa wrote: | Adjusted for Inflation (but ignoring increased commodity prices etc), it would cost $309 million. We currently directly subsidise private transport (Fuel rebate) to the tune of half a billion dollars a year.
Smart State indeed... |
You can't exactly compare the two directly. The fuel subsidy affects the 3 million or so Queenslanders state-wide. A light rail system in Brisbane affects maybe only 100,000 people that might use the system and gain some benefit from it on an annual basis. (not that I'm supporting the fuel subsidy)
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muggsie
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:43 pm
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Come and join us over here!
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RTT_Rules
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 10, 2009
Location: Gladstone Qld
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Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:18 pm
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| bunza wrote: | | Draffa wrote: | Adjusted for Inflation (but ignoring increased commodity prices etc), it would cost $309 million. We currently directly subsidise private transport (Fuel rebate) to the tune of half a billion dollars a year.
Smart State indeed... |
You can't exactly compare the two directly. The fuel subsidy affects the 3 million or so Queenslanders state-wide. A light rail system in Brisbane affects maybe only 100,000 people that might use the system and gain some benefit from it on an annual basis. (not that I'm supporting the fuel subsidy) |
Is it really a subsidy?
If my memory recalls correctly, up until abouit 4-5 years ago each state taxed fuel at their own set rate. Qld was the only state to have a 0c/L fuel tax. Something most were proud of.
Then someone legal boffin (don't know details), realised that the tax was infact illegal under the consitution and had been for years. To protect the states revenue base the Feds immediately moved in and introduced a fuel tax over night that was set at the highest state tax at the time. Probably SA or Tas and hence any state taxing less had now a subsidy in place to maintain the price. So is it really a subsidy just because a change in the taxing bodies, yet it all stays the same? Open to correction on the events.
Even if Qld was to introduce a 8.3c tax on fuel, the revenue will be spent on the areas paying the most, ie SE Qld whether it be PT or roads.
Also don't forget NSW and later Vic in the late 80's jumped on the 3 x 3 fuel tax plan which has never stopped. ie 3c/L for 3 years to fix roads. They still advertise this (NSW at least) so is this a tax or a levy which means do they have a subidy on their fuel too?
Regards
shane
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mje772003
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:08 pm
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WIth QLD Government looking at an underground subway idea don't we have enough tunnels in Brisbane with Can't do Campbell's idea's wouldn't it be better for Bligh the builder to look at light rail trams network like they do in Melbourne
Bring back Brisbanes old Tram network i say and extend on from the old network I would rather use that than the trains and busses if this was around
Matt
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Draffa
Chief Train Controller
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:11 am
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| mje772003 wrote: | | wouldn't it be better for Bligh the builder to look at light rail trams network like they do in Melbourne |
Don't you understand!? Trams are the past. Cars and busses are the future. Mr Brisbane said so. 
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2353
Chief Train Controller
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Location: In the car (Citytrain is too unreliable)
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| 2353 |
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Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:58 pm
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The problem with bring trams back to anywhere that lost them is they will have to be economically justified. And without trams on the streets, there is no way to support or refute the argument those that don't want them (for various reasons) promote.
Save the earth - its the only planet with chocolate!
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This service runs express from Brisbane Central to Bowen Hills! |
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Gannon
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:35 pm
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On the one hand I would vote for trams for the nostalgic experience. But I am certain that the majority that petition for trams in Brisbane have little to no idea of the massive expense and lacking efficiency of trams. Compare the carrying capacities and service intervals of trams to buses, and the figures that buses provide are second to no other form of transport, excluding perhaps a 10 lane freeway for private vehicles. A single busway can accomodate for near 15 to 20 times the capacity a tram line can. (I would need to check up on these figures produced by the BCC but it was something like 90,000 passengers daily by bus over a 2 minute service compared to 4,000 on a tram line daily - which have I believe similar service requirements of trains at also a 2 minute service minimum for safety.) And then on top of that buses can be rerouted to meet a demand.
There are remnants of the old tramways in Brisbane. Check anywhere from nearby Botanic Gardens on the bottom end of Alice Street (there is the concrete base of a pole signal once used for the trams in the garden bed there) and as far up as Newstead where there are still tram lines embedded into the pavement. From my own observations I can't foresee any uses for remnant light rail infrastructure.
Trams for Brisbane? I might use it a few times with my girl. I might support it too if it means that it is taking up road capacities that would otherwise be used for private vehicles. But I'm positive that BCC would first set up a busway before light rail simply for the figures.
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NathanCastle
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| NathanCastle |
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:53 pm
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| Gannon wrote: | On the one hand I would vote for trams for the nostalgic experience. But I am certain that the majority that petition for trams in Brisbane have little to no idea of the massive expense and lacking efficiency of trams. Compare the carrying capacities and service intervals of trams to buses, and the figures that buses provide are second to no other form of transport, excluding perhaps a 10 lane freeway for private vehicles. A single busway can accomodate for near 15 to 20 times the capacity a tram line can. (I would need to check up on these figures produced by the BCC but it was something like 90,000 passengers daily by bus over a 2 minute service compared to 4,000 on a tram line daily - which have I believe similar service requirements of trains at also a 2 minute service minimum for safety.) And then on top of that buses can be rerouted to meet a demand.
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I think you should check you figures !!!!
This proposed carbon trading scheme Is going to ruin the economy of Australia. "Dump It Now"
65 miles from Flinders Street Station Melbourne and 703 feet above sea level
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Myrtone
Chief Train Controller
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Location: North Carlton, Melbourne, Victoria
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:13 pm
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| Draffa wrote: | | mje772003 wrote: | | wouldn't it be better for Bligh the builder to look at light rail trams network like they do in Melbourne |
Don't you understand!? Trams are the past. Cars and busses are the future. Mr Brisbane said so. |
The tramway here in Melbourne is a very old, first generation system with a lot of tradition. In Brsbane the tradtion was lost when the previous system was adandoned. And it was abandoned due to incompadbility with other traffic. The future would proably be to build undergorund railways, since these do not take up road space the way busses and trams do, mass transit monorails are another idea.
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Gannon
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:14 pm
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Oh I will.
I was going to edit but you replied already. The figures that I can't recall exactly were produced by Translink, and not BCC.
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beastjim
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: Sitting next to colinw, waiting for a train to Greenbank.
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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:33 pm
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Well here is something to think about, trams can carry up to about 250 passengers. With a headway of every two minutes that is 30 trams per hour which means 7500 passengers per hour for a single track, I think trams can actually bunch up by moving towards a more visual system of control, however I can't confirm that.
For buses to match that passengers per hour figure with normal rigid buses (62 pax) you would need 121 buses or a bus every 30 seconds. Which I believe the Cultural Centre does slightly more these days (somewhere between 150-200). I remember reading the figure 19,000 for the Busway recently however I can't remember where. I presume that was a daily figure.
Wow I think I just proved a busway is probably better then a Light Rail Track. I need to go reevaluate my priorities.
Still it's not quite as a difference has Gannon has posted a few posts up.
Cheers James
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