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vanessa
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jan 11, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:10 pm
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| Shacks wrote: | | There was to be an announcement Thursday of last week, but it was posponed due to the Impex Gas announcement that was made Friday. |
Will the new gas plant be using rail at all?
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Shacks
Ghanzel
Joined: Mar 03, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant (Signal) North.
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| Shacks |
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:15 pm
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Maybe just for construction stuff, that would be about it as the gas will be exported to China.
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ParkesHub
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 29, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:18 pm
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| vanessa wrote: | | nutbagg wrote: | | Toll stated it was out of the running this week because the price tag was too high. |
With Asciano a millstone for Toll at the present time not suprising that toll is out. |
Asciano and Toll are seperate companies.
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vanessa
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jan 11, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:43 pm
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| Shacks wrote: | | Maybe just for construction stuff, that would be about it as the gas will be exported to China. |
There is also the condensate which may be sold nationally.
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vanessa
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jan 11, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:43 pm
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| ParkesHub wrote: | | vanessa wrote: | | nutbagg wrote: | | Toll stated it was out of the running this week because the price tag was too high. |
With Asciano a millstone for Toll at the present time not suprising that toll is out. |
Asciano and Toll are seperate companies. |
Only by Australian Business Number
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Shacks
Ghanzel
Joined: Mar 03, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant (Signal) North.
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| Shacks |
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:03 pm
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| vanessa wrote: | | ParkesHub wrote: | | vanessa wrote: | | nutbagg wrote: | | Toll stated it was out of the running this week because the price tag was too high. |
With Asciano a millstone for Toll at the present time not suprising that toll is out. |
Asciano and Toll are seperate companies. |
Only by Australian Business Number |
Correct, Asciano is a division of Toll Holdings. On paper they are seperate, in reality, they are the same mob, I think they share some board members too.
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ParkesHub
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 29, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:31 pm
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From the ACCC:
"The fifth variation to the undertaking given by Toll Holdings Ltd to the ACCC on 11 March 2006.
The fifth variation relates to Toll’s planned restructure of its group businesses by way of scheme of arrangement to create a new listed entity and trust.
The restructure is proposed by Toll to involve the creation of a new listed company, Asciano Limited, and the transfer of the assets, entities and/or businesses that comprise Toll's infrastructure assets, including Pacific National, to this company.
The ACCC's decision to consent to a waiver of Toll's obligations is given effect through the following documents:
* a variation to Toll's undertakings
* a new undertaking from Asciano Limited, and
* new undertakings from the directors of Toll and Asciano.
Copies of those undertakings can be found on the ACCC’s website.
The Toll undertakings, when amended by the variation (the revised Toll undertakings), provide that, if the restructure of the Toll business occurs, and if certain pre-conditions are met, then Toll is relieved of its obligation to divest 50 per cent of PN, the Vehicle Transport Business and the PrixCar Interest. If the restructure does not occur, or the pre-conditions are not met, Toll's obligations will not be waived and it must still carry out the divestments.
If the restructure occurs, Toll's obligations to make available the Starter's Kit of East West Rail Assets and to implement non-discrimination regimes in relation to Pacific National's Intermodal Business and Patrick's container terminals will be transferred to Asciano.
Further, Toll will become subject to new obligations to ensure the separation of Toll and Asciano. Specifically, Toll will be prohibited from:
* having an interest, either through shares or assets, in Asciano
* appointing a director who personally has, or who has a relative who has, any interest in Asciano
* entering into joint ventures with Asciano
* seconding or sharing management or employees with Asciano
* employing or otherwise engaging any person who is or has been a senior manager of Pacific National's intermodal business
* paying to Asciano any performance or incentive fees, other than payments arising in the ordinary course of business which are also available to other like customers, and
* contracting or dealing with Asciano other than on arm's length commercial terms."
I think the above extract pretty much spells out that the two companies are, for all intents and purposes, run as seperate entities. Asciano's debts belong to Asciano.
Argue the details if you like.
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vanessa
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jan 11, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:48 pm
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They are effectively a group. We can discuss shareholders if you like. The original comment still stands. Asciano has underperformed. This has probably indirectly affected Toll's ability to:
1. Raise capital
2. Seek shareholder approval to acquire new rail businesses and assets.
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bingley hall
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 09, 2005 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: gone fishin
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| bingley hall |
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:59 pm
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| Shacks wrote: | | ....I think they share some board members too. |
Toll Board
Ray Horsburgh AM
Paul Little
Harry Boon
Mark Smith
Barry Cusack
Frank Ford
Bernard McInerney
Asciano Board
Tim Poole
Chris Barlow
Peter George
Mark Rowsthorn
While they may have many comoon shareholders they are completely separate companies.
Bing
Life is just a bowl of All Bran...you wake up every morning and it's there
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Shacks
Ghanzel
Joined: Mar 03, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Sir Big Lens of the Distant (Signal) North.
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| Shacks |
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:07 pm
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Thanks for the list Bing, there was a stage were there were 2 or 3 that were on both.
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ParkesHub
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 29, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:38 pm
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| bingley hall wrote: |
While they may have many comoon shareholders they are completely separate companies.
Bing |
You can't help some people, bing. See you on the alternate site!
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vanessa
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jan 11, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:42 pm
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| ParkesHub wrote: | | bingley hall wrote: |
While they may have many comoon shareholders they are completely separate companies.
Bing |
You can't help some people, bing. See you on the alternate site! |
You don't agree with me? Was that a cheap shot at me?
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vanessa
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jan 11, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:45 pm
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| Shacks wrote: | | Thanks for the list Bing, there was a stage were there were 2 or 3 that were on both. |
Exactly! This company was formed to ensure compliance with the ACCC. They all talk, work together and are involved in running a large national business.
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ParkesHub
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 29, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:02 pm
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| vanessa wrote: | | ParkesHub wrote: | | bingley hall wrote: |
While they may have many comoon shareholders they are completely separate companies.
Bing |
You can't help some people, bing. See you on the alternate site! |
You don't agree with me? Was that a cheap shot at me? |
If you knew anything about me, you'd know that I never, ever take "cheap shots" at individuals who I don't know. I don't waste the time nor bandwidth.
I was having a droll reply to shacks, who is my FRIEND and who knows me quite well.
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ParkesHub
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 29, 2003 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:18 pm
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| vanessa wrote: | | Shacks wrote: | | Thanks for the list Bing, there was a stage were there were 2 or 3 that were on both. |
Exactly!
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Well....not exactly...
| vanessa wrote: |
This company was formed to ensure compliance with the ACCC. |
Yes, I think that much is right. It's the 'least worst' option.
| vanessa wrote: |
They all talk, work together and are involved in running a large national business. |
I think you need to 'put up, or shut up' (as they say). I'm sure the ACCC would love to hear from you if you have any evidence of substance. From what I've heard (complete hearsay, mind you), there was a falling out over debt levels imposed upon Asciano.
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