A few times on the Frakston line I've seen a spark driver who pulls the blind almost completely down when he passes photographers, presumably to conceal his identity.
As others have said, you have every right to show a photo where the crew can be identified, but it is good courtesy not to show them breaking the rules, and if they specifically request that you do not publish their photo, you should go by that. Just remember though, it only takes a few seconds in photoshop to blur a face.
“You told us to imagine, and we imagined your irrelevance!”
Many of the drivers here in the Darwin area pull the blinds down if they spot me early enough, not hard when you consider I drive a red wagon.
even if I know the driver I will not put their name with the photo. EG, a few years ago I saw Tim Fischer talking to the crew of the Ghan, I asked them if I could get a photo, they said fine. I know one of the 2 drivers, but when I put the photo on the net I put "Tim Fischer with the crew of the Ghan".
I think it is wrong to name the crews. Also if you photograph something that should not be going on, refrain from puttting it on the net. Saves many please explains.
The apocryphal story of a crew that put up the centrefold of an adult magazine - with some distinct display of flange evident to the photographer - was my favourite.
Although filming gunzels isn't exclusive to train crews.
The last thing I want is for disciplinary action to be taken against someone for something seen in one of my photos, and in the past have withdrawn pics where it was pointed out to me a person in shot was doing something wrong, BUT at the end of the day isn't it primarily the responsibility of the employees themselves to follow the rules in the first place?
I don't know all the rules of all the companies, and will exercise a level of caution on what rules I do know, but I the employees themselves are in a better place than I to know the rules, and surely I generally have to assume they are following them?
As a trainee for a heritage railway in SA, people taking photos of me in the cab isnt unusual. I knew this when i signed up, thus the onus is on me todo the right thing at all times, no matter if there is a gunzel or general public around or not.
Some train crews will take a picture of the Photographer if they are trespassing or believe it may be needed later on.
(i have been through this before with a an incident. It gave the police a good description of the offender).
The photographer should use their discretion when posting photos of crews going about there work
"The drive Through is a lazy person's best friend in the world"
doridoriChief CommissionerJoined: Sep 21, 2005 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
My experience is that it is best not to name crews because there is always some self-important person around to ask them to please explain. Generally I have found railway people quite friendly and it would be unfair to get people into trouble unnecessarily.
I have had few problems photographing things - some loco crews at Traralgon thought I was sent by management to photograph them. Sometimes you get them giving you the finger.
Worst was on a non rail job where I was assaulted by someone claiming to be a school principal while photographing a Defence installation (for a heritage survey) she thought I was photographing her kiddies, I thought she should have been more concerned that I was photographing a Defence base which is actually against the law (although I did have permission from Defence to do it).
Iain Stuart
squeekazoidChief CommissionerJoined: Jul 12, 2006 Last Visited: Jan 10, 2009 Location: RADelaide!
While i find alot of drivers here in the west to be ignorant to me but some will give a good blast of the horn or wave... i've noticed one driver here has mood changes one day he will blow the horn and wave and next time hes just not motivated enough.
There are to a few drivers who have my photo one from a Bauxite who i was with Kafoopsy down at Wellard in wa. and another on a Grain train through bellevue.
I have no idea what they want with our pictures but yeah
But i seem to strike it lucky alot with 260 Quartz train drivers they seem to know me well and blow the horn and wave out the window.
In The Hunter area at the moment there is atleast one crew member working for Pacific National on the coal roads who takes photos of Photographers from his cab, he has atleast 3 photos of me that I know of.
Yeah, I seen crews doing this. Dunno why they do it.
You take photo's of us doing what we do.. we take photo's of you doing what you do. I don't mind the odd gunzel, I think it's great to give a wave or the horn, but sometimes it can be annoying and make you feel awkward having somone point a camera at you. Hence some crews point it back, and judging by the posts here it can make you feel awkward too.
Who is Kent B?
wolfpacChief CommissionerJoined: Apr 19, 2004 Last Visited: Jan 10, 2009 Location: "Melton"-SSS Line...
Reminds me of a clip I posted to YouTube a while ago, with the crew on the VLP Y class hamming it up big time... A big thanks to them, still makes me laugh when I see it and it certainly something they didn't have to do!
Still, I suppose it's fair if you don't want to be photographed, you shouldn't have to be, as such. Bit hard I suppose, considering if you're doing the right thing/gunzelling responsibly, technically there's nothing really stopping anyone.
But we do appreciate the work the crews do, our hobby wouldn't happen without them!
Photos: 5th Dec 2008, Melbourne Gunzelling - Southern Cross Station
1st Dec 2008, Tottenham Gunzelling
25th Nov 2008, V/Locity set 1130 + 1106 - Melton Hwy, Sydenham
24th Nov 2008, Tottenham Gunzelling
When a gunzel is going to take a photo of a train, the crew wouldn't be a thought, when you go to take a photo of that train, the locomotive or the front of the train is the first thing thought about, which angle works, wheres the sun. It's afterwards when you look back and see you have captured a clear image of the crew that would make you think. Your average gunzel wouldn't contemplate how awkward they are making a crew feel by taking a photo of a train.
I personally, don't like seeing a photo of a train I'm working, makes me feel uncomfortable, as KR said earlier, can be used by management to implicate you later. However, I've done the same thing previously, so I grin and bear it. At the end of the day, everyone has to have a hobby, some just have more unusual hobbies than others and the reality is, most people would see gunzelling as an unusual hobby.
Regards
Tim
Say what you want about me, I don't lose sleep at night worried what you're thinking....
GEintheNDChief CommissionerJoined: Jun 04, 2005 Last Visited: Jan 10, 2009 Location: Cairns or there abouts!
I knew this when i signed up, thus the onus is on me todo the right thing at all times, no matter if there is a gunzel or general public around or not.
I believe that ever person that works on the footplate strives to do their job to the letter of the law, but sometimes unintentional breaches do occur!
I've been surprised at the number of photos published recently, in well known magazines, of trains with-out their ditch lights or headlight on! This would be an accidental oversight by the train driver and very easy to do! I've done it myself and I doubt there is a train driver who hasn't, at one stage or another!
I'm just surprised that these shots are published. If these pic's are sighted by management, the crew could end up with a very prickly pineapple inserted in a place that pineapples normally don't venture!
As a train driver, I have know problems with having my train photographed. But I do understand why some driver's wouldn't like it.
We can only hope that Gunzel's are responsible enough, to thoroughly check their photographs for anything that might cause the crew grief, before displaying their artistic work to the public. At the same time, magazine editors also need to thoroughly check submitted photos before publishing.
In the underworld, fringe benefits can be tempting, but the redundancy package is distinctly unattractive. It is small, made of lead and arrives suddenly. You don't even see it coming.
3foot6Minister for RailwaysJoined: Dec 22, 2004 Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009 Location: Brisbane, QLD
I guess that theory also applies to some gunzel drivers who have their cameras ready to catch rail enthusiasts in action.
I have never intentionally published a photo where train crew are breaking the railway code of conduct and would be aggravated if some driver took a photo of me and sprayed all over the Internet, even if I was not doing anything wrong.
In this way, I believe that the respect is a two-way street. I respect you, you respect me, and we play ball together nicely.
You take photo's of us doing what we do.. we take photo's of you doing what you do. I don't mind the odd gunzel, I think it's great to give a wave or the horn, but sometimes it can be annoying and make you feel awkward having somone point a camera at you. Hence some crews point it back, and judging by the posts here it can make you feel awkward too.
I find it amusing actually and normally wave. I remember taking a some photos out west a few years ago and the Train Crew got a shot of us. We caught up with them later and exchanged email addresses. It looked funny seeing these two heads peering above the concrete barrier on the bridge.
Personally, if I were Train Crew, I would be glad that someone is taking an interest in what I do. Up in the Central Queensland Coal Fields, a number of Drivers have commented that it makes them feel special when they get their photo taken because not many people can be bothered heading so far out West.
As I say, if the photo is taken all in fun, then I have got no problems at all. However, if the photo is taken with a malicious intent, then I think some people need to learn two-way respect.
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A big thanks to them, still makes me laugh when I see it and it certainly something they didn't 
