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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:50 pm
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And of course Daniel, like all the whingers who write in to mX Vent Your Spleen, knows for sure that Connex can magically fix the entire train system overnight if only they spend a bit more money.
Come on Daniel, you know better than that.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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574M
White Guru
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 30, 2008
Location: Shepparton
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:29 am
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I think this is in the wrong place.
Thread is about HeraldSun: Post is about a report in The Age
| Speed wrote: | The Age takes measurements of fines against the price of tickets..
| Quote: | The relatively low fines imposed on Connex have surprised some transport observers who say such light penalties do not reflect the inconvenience of having a service cancelled on a Sunday when waiting times stretch up to 80 minutes.
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The new figures account for the week beginning Sunday, March 9, on the Frankston line. The eight cancelled services that week cost Connex $18,750 with fines ranging from $1186 for a city-bound 7.40pm service to $4947 for a city-bound service during the morning peak. Three services cancelled on the Sunday cost the operator two fines of $1694 and one of $2598.
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The value of the fines imposed is based on a formula called passenger-weighted minutes, which uses anticipated patronage figures, the time period and direction of travel to calculate the penalty. By comparing the fines with passenger numbers from the most recent patronage surveys, and taking into account recent patronage growth, it is possible to get a rough idea of how much per passenger Connex is charged in the peak.
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Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said whether the level of fines was fair or not was irrelevant because they were clearly not working. "If they were effective the train operator would do more to prevent cancellations," he said. |
http://www.theage.com.au/national/light-fines-for-tardy-connex-service-no-match-for-commuter-pain-say-critics-20080906-4b59.html |
And mjja, I agree with Daniel and Riccardo. They are not really fines, they are withheld performance payments. Prima facie, at face value the fines are not working, that is just a simple observation by Daniel. Go back and read it, if the fines were serving their purpose, there would be fewer cancellations.
mjja isn't it about time your Smart Passengers Association got into the news with a few media releases or interviews of your own?
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tranzitjim
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jun 09, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:52 am
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Then again, what is the real problem.
I mean, if you get a government who has a fine for a person who can not fly, no matter how hard the fine is, that person is not going to flap his/her arms and start flying.
It is beyond the persons ability to do that, because the person does not have the equipment required for thy to conform.
It takes more than being a train operator to make a system perform well. They need to have the ability to ensure improvements to the system, in order for them to conform.
Like, timetables which are way too tight, and need to be loosened. But the Government sets the timetables, not Connex.
Or, let me use another example, if a hunter chose to clip the wings of a duck, before saying to the duck, you fly or I will shoot you. no matter how much the duck would want to fly, it can not because the hunter had clipped its wings. Then the hunter shoots the duck for not taking off.
It is much the same with the Government clipping the wings of Connex, then withholding payments because Connex can not do as the Government wants.
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:23 am
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| 574M wrote: | I think this is in the wrong place.
Thread is about HeraldSun: Post is about a report in The Age |
The subject-line refers to the first article in the thread but the irony of my quoting Age articles doesn't escape me. The thread is about over-crowding and penalties for not meeting performance targets.
While there certainly should be a financial incentive to meet punctuality targets, the targets need to be achievable. Reducing the base income may be good for government revenue but it isn't necessarily an effective way to improve services (now if the money's used for....).
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:39 am
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The Age has a blog today. It was empty when I opened it.
| Quote: | First it was late trains, and then packed trains -- now commuters face early trains. According to Government Documents, Connex faces fines of up to $470 per minute if a train departs earlier then scheduled.
Connex was fined every month last year for trains departing their station early.
Do you travel with Connex? Do you think their transport services are up to standard? Should Connex credit commuters when their services cause them to miss their train? |
http://blogs.theage.com.au/yoursay/archives/2008/10/unstable_timeta.html
| Quote: | FIRST it was late trains, then packed trains — now commuters face early trains. Confidential Government documents show dozens of trains departing destinations before their scheduled time — potentially leaving commuters stranded at stations.
News of the "early" trains has alarmed transport users. Public Transport Users Association president Daniel Bowen said there was no reason for trains leaving early. "It just shouldn't happen," he said. "It could be very frustrating for passengers if commuters think they're on time to catch a train but it has already left by the time they get to the station."
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Connex spokesman John Rees defended the train operators' record, arguing early trains were uncommon. "It is extremely rare that it happens. When it does, it has most likely been caused by simple human error where someone's misread a roster, someone's misread a clock," he said. He said trains that departed early were quickly detected and adjusted to the right schedule.
Opposition transport spokesman Terry Mulder said trains should not be departing early. "Any early running of more than a minute affects travellers adversely and can indicate slack timetables," he said.
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Department of Transport spokesman Chris Veraa said there were five train services that departed "early" in January this year. |
http://www.theage.com.au/national/commuters-face-being-stranded-as-trains-leave-early-20081008-4wqw.html
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WiRED
Station Master
Joined: Oct 25, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 29, 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:16 pm
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Great. Connex was fined $62 Million for not meeting May's Requirements.
Rubbish, Connex needs money to purchase trains & other required things.
$62 Million for a fine is absolutely ridicules, it could be used to pay for things other then the fken politics fuel.
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michaelgreenhill
Patron Saint of Alcohol
Joined: Jan 17, 1985
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Lost Somewhere In Time
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:51 pm
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| WiRED wrote: | Great. Connex was fined $62 Million for not meeting May's Requirements.
Rubbish, Connex needs money to purchase trains & other required things.
$62 Million for a fine is absolutely ridicules, it could be used to pay for things other then the fken politics fuel. |
Connex doesn't buy the trains. If M>Train had bought theirs with their own money, they would've taken them with them when they left.
The fines are there for a reason. If there weren't consequences for running a poor service, then do you think they'd be wasting all this time and effort to make sure as many timetabled trains run on time as humanly possible? They sure don't do it for the thanks the public gives them - outside of gunzels, nobody gives a damn about Connex until their train is cancelled. They do the hard yards so they don't lose flipping great wodgers of cash.
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Kerpal
Train Controller
Joined: Jul 17, 2005
Last Visited: Dec 3, 2008
Location: Waiting for an express that'll never come ...
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:53 pm
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The money-go-round system of subsidies and fines is ridiculous.
Connex should be paid according to how many people travel and customer satisfaction.
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Heihachi_73
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Ringwood Stopping all stations except East Richmond
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:58 am
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| Kerpal wrote: | | The money-go-round system of subsidies and fines is ridiculous. |
Welcome to Victoria.
You cannot run from your own bunghole.
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Edith
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 3, 2008
Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:59 am
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I once had a job negotiating service contracts, a bit like the one with Connex. Penalty clauses were always interesting. If the penalties were too low, it might be cheaper sometimes for the provider to wear the penalty rather than try to make the service work. The penalties must be high enough to make them really want to succeed.
Penalties are not everything, though. The service standard has to be one that is in the hands of the operator to meet. They must have complete control over things. It also must be possible for the standard to be met.
I think the current PT standards, with so many aspects outside the hands of the operators, must be very frustrating for them. It is also frustrating for the passengers. It seems that the standards and how they are measured are meaningless to many passengers and measured in terms that are not obvious to them. I would say that passengers should identify what is to be measured and what the objectives of each standard are, and then let the prospective tenderers bid against this.
Not running a service on an hourley service is more of a disaster than when a service on a 15 minute frequency is cancelled. Likewise, a service that is re-routed to save a few Loop stops should be counted as a non-runner as far as the Loop passengers are concerned.
Dreams are not something to wait for
They are something to work for
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:07 am
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The Age reports that the new tenders have incentives to keep trains clean with a reduced emphasis on punctuality.
| Quote: | Under State Government plans to keep Melbourne's public transport system in private hands for the next 15 years, customer satisfaction conditions will be built into new contracts with operators.
The new clauses mean operators will be rewarded $1 million a year if they remove graffiti within a set time, give out customer information correctly and keep trains and trams clean. No such bonuses exist now.
Under the new contracts, operators will be penalised a maximum of just $1 million a month for late running and too many cancellations. Existing penalties are unlimited. In the year to June, Connex paid more than $33 million in fines for cancellations and late services.
RMIT senior transport lecturer Paul Mees said the Government was softening conditions for operators but would try to pretend it was toughening them. |
http://www.theage.com.au/national/easier-penalties-tipped-for-operators-20081027-59tb.html
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NathanCastle
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
Last Visited: Nov 24, 2008
Location: Gippsland
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Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:44 am
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| Heihachi_73 wrote: | | Kerpal wrote: | | The money-go-round system of subsidies and fines is ridiculous. |
Welcome to Victoria. |
Does the Government still fine V/Line (even though then own them)
This proposed carbon trading scheme Is going to ruin the economy of Australia. "Dump It Now"
65 miles from Flinders Street Station Melbourne and 703 feet above sea level
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LamontCranston
Station Staff
Joined: Oct 19, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 27, 2008
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:24 am
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| Quote: | | Under State Government plans to keep Melbourne's public transport system in private hands for the next 15 years |
Why would they do such a thing?
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BJ Titsengolf
That's Numberwang!
Joined: May 13, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 6, 2008
Location: Location: Location:
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Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:17 am
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| LamontCranston wrote: | | Quote: | | Under State Government plans to keep Melbourne's public transport system in private hands for the next 15 years |
Why would they do such a thing? |
Simple. When someone complains that the train was late/overcrowded/cancelled/filthy/unsafe, the minister can point at the private operator. That sort of scapegoat is worth its weight in copper around Government circles.
The soap avoiding, pot smoking hippy vegetarians may disagree with me, but they can get stuffed. They know the way to the airport and if they don't, i'll show them.
Carbon positive - and proud of it.
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