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Aaron
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: University of Adelaide SA
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| Aaron |
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:20 am
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Senisitivity at a couple of hundred millimeters should pose no major difficulty. eTag operates over a range of whole meters!
To go with something RFID you'd actually want to detune it down to nearly no range else the bus might bill you as it drives past...
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kipioneer
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:08 am
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| Aaron wrote: | Senisitivity at a couple of hundred millimeters should pose no major difficulty. eTag operates over a range of whole meters!
To go with something RFID you'd actually want to detune it down to nearly no range else the bus might bill you as it drives past... |
So you get back to a swipe card where you clock on and clock off.
Neil - the KIPioneer
Hawthorn SA
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Aaron
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: University of Adelaide SA
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| Aaron |
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:40 pm
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No, no logging on and off. Timed trips just like now.
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kipioneer
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:02 am
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| Aaron wrote: | | No, no logging on and off. Timed trips just like now. |
Which is precisely the system Perth has.
If you don't "tag-off" you get charged for the maximum fare for the current trip of the vehicle you last "tagged on" on except if there is another tag on in certain circumstances - for example changing between services - where the system can make a reasonable assumption about your travel.
If your journey is shorter, and cheaper than this, then you tag off to avoid the penalty. In Adelaide this would amount to tagging off only for short distance (2 section) trips.
And how long does it take to present your ticket to the exit reader anyway? Exactly the same length of time it does when entering the vehicle. They are RFIDs so you don't have to insert it in anything.
The paradigm of the ticket is different - it stores value not trips so you don't need a ticket to cover each of your likely trips - you only need the one card and the system debits the value of your trip.
I assume that the whole thing is driven by a computer(s) back in headquarters being fed the travel information live from each vehicle.
Your details are held there not on your card - that just identifies you.
Neil - the KIPioneer
Hawthorn SA
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David Peters
Minister for Railways
Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: In a black Trans Am!
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| David Peters |
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:06 am
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Put your self in the place of Mr or Mrs Average, with either kids or parcels etc the less mucking around on transport with a ticket the better, as Aaron says use it to get on, it deducts one trip, from the card, if you reuse that card to change transport modes, it does not deduct another trip, but merely lets you continue to use that trip for a preset time. Then and only then will it deduct another trip from the card.
This makes it much like the existing system, so that the public do not have to get up in arms over it, it is easier to use, you know what is going on, and you are not wasting either your time or money, swiping cards to get or off of transport. It has to be based on the K.I.S.S. system, Keep It Simple Stupid. This is so that the average person in the street can use it, computer experts etc can devise their own system, if they want something more complicated. Just my two cents worth!
National Railway Museum member.
The opinions expressed by my me in these posts is not the opinion of the N.R.M. and should not be construed as such.
Ferroequinologist and Microferroequinologist.
Photosite http://davidpeters950.fotopic.net |
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kipioneer
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:39 am
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But it is working in Perth. What is the problem? Are South Australians more stupid than their WA cousins? (No comments from you Sandgropers, please!)
It might take a week or so to get used to, but once that is past it will be second nature.
In Adelaide the concept of sticking a ticket in a validator took a while to become quite natural to those who travel frequently.
Where it falls down is catering for the infrequent traveller. Perth's system is actually better than Adelaide because it doesn't require a casual traveller with a paper ticket to validate, which seems to cause confusion with infrequent travellers here.
Perth had a parallel running period to trial the system before introducing it system wide.
In any case Perth's system works by default exactly as you describe David. The only difference is, if you want to avoid being charged a 2 hour price for a 2 section trip (or potentially a 9 zone price for a 2 section trip) you need to tell the system where you get off. How else, besides your carrying a card for 2 section travel and a card for 2 hour travel do you achieve this?
My card should cater for both types of travel, and it should automatically work out what to debit me for travel.
Neil - the KIPioneer
Hawthorn SA
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Sarails
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Aug 08, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: @ Work
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| Sarails |
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Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:56 pm
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| kipioneer wrote: | In any case Perth's system works by default exactly as you describe David. The only difference is, if you want to avoid being charged a 2 hour price for a 2 section trip (or potentially a 9 zone price for a 2 section trip) you need to tell the system where you get off. How else, besides your carrying a card for 2 section travel and a card for 2 hour travel do you achieve this?
My card should cater for both types of travel, and it should automatically work out what to debit me for travel. |
I see the point you are making Kipioneer, and agree with the one card principle and the need to clock on & off to retain value of short trip patrons.
Added cost of a reader at the centre door should be "minimal" as this could be designed as a liked reader to a "master unit" at another location on the bus, even if this is just a transmit/ receive unit to act as described in other posts.
Costs could also be minimied by having the "smarts" no intergrated into a reader unit at the front of the bus like current, as this would reduce parts to retain as stock for repair/ maintanence/ storage.
Iain K
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Men need Men to talk too about Men things, sometimes that's a smeg
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Aaron
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: University of Adelaide SA
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| Aaron |
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:23 am
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Supposing I log off before I finish my journey, and by that I mean one stop into it...
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Sarails
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Aug 08, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: @ Work
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| Sarails |
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:31 am
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| Aaron wrote: | | Supposing I log off before I finish my journey, and by that I mean one stop into it... |
Could make it so that bus needs to be stationary to allow clocking off a journey, whilst it wouldn't stop people from clocking off early it would allow easier monitoring by the driver on busses, trains & trams are an easier method to scam, but that's no different from now.
Iain K
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Men need Men to talk too about Men things, sometimes that's a smeg
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NolaMcKenzie
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:58 am
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| Aaron wrote: | | Supposing I log off before I finish my journey, and by that I mean one stop into it... |
no different to buying a two-section ticket, and travelling long distance. Is overcome by a compliance regime.
In some ways, a smart card would go some way to overcome this with the embarrasment factor. Why did that person log off, but not get off the service?
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