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DalyWaters
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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| DalyWaters |
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:18 am
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| Quote: | | is it any wonder PN is being welcomed back with open arms (if the rumours are to be believed)... |
Is there any run down on how many times loco problems stopped the Warrnambool freight getting through?
The crossing loop problem was created after El Zorro took over. So Pac Nat will have the same problem.
The lack of decent wagons available and the loss of this contract bodes badly for broad gauge competition in Victoria. And yet, many people seem to want to argue that Mildura should stay broad gauge.
Unfortunately, Warrnambool and Gippsland have no case for gauge conversion. However, the rest of the state should be done in a rolling program.
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jakar
Train Controller
Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Melbourne
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:02 pm
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| SmokeSignals wrote: | Well where does one start... Firstly the Motive Power, these antiques belong in a museum, as did the rolling stock used on the service when El Zorro first took over the service (you know, those "bright Tangerine painted ones")
This coupled with El Zorro's inherant inability to source & yet secure more "modern wagons" caperable of the task at hand (those Tangerine painted rollin' antiques definately arn't, look at the wagon that can only take MTY Boxes only, what a waste of space even having it on the train, thank goodness it's long since been red-carded) has come back to bite & bite hard it has, it would seem
As for the 2 other wagons, well where are these, I haven't seen them in the yard I've only seen the Shunters Wagon ( the one with the bent frame, that can only be used for MTY Boxes only) which is parked in the Tank Rd of Warrnambool Yard & has been for some close to 4 weeks now
Leasing the wagons that make up the majority ofhe train (let alone S311 for that brief period, when it chose to co-operate that is & wasn't knocked out due to faults) off CFCLA would have to be a killer, this as well as the now apparent lack of Train-Order Crossing Points (other then Camperdown & Geelong) won't have helped matters much... is it any wonder PN is being welcomed back with open arms (if the rumours are to be believed)... |
How is any of the above (apart from the reference to crossing points) a "restraint of trade", which was the original question?
Having old loco's and leasing wagons is not a 'restraint of trade'. It just means that the company concerned does not have access too or can't afford new ones. That is entierly their problem and no one else's.
Very much open to correction, but about the only "restraint of trade" that could've occured is the removal of crossing loops by a third party, limiting the amount of paths the train could take. If late/delayed trains caused by a lack of paths was a major factor in the decision to change companys, then I too think El Zorro could have a legitmate case on their hands.
Jakar
In case you're wondering, jakar is not my name.
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T411
Moderator
Joined: Jun 09, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Somewhere
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kuldalai
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 14, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:55 pm
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El Zorro struggled to run it as they tried to do it Down in daytime tangling with passes, and Up in the Evening .
PN will no doubt go back to overnight each way crossing en route at Geelong and no passes to contend with . Also operating with more modern and reliable wagons and locos will make it run reliably .
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T411
Moderator
Joined: Jun 09, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 3:13 pm
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| kuldalai wrote: | | PN will no doubt go back to overnight each way crossing en route at Geelong and no passes to contend with . Also operating with more modern and reliable wagons and locos will make it run reliably . |
When PN ran it last time, they were constantly in strife with a cut off time they had to be in Geelong by. Approx 0130 from memory, if they were there after that, the train was held at North Geelong until the first up pass arrived.
PN's other problem is trying to get the train into and out of the docks. Thats where most of their trains get delayed, trying to fit more trains in then can be handled.
I'm also curious where PN will find the crews to run it. If rumours pan out correctly, Sth Dynon along could be losing up to 12 drivers very soon (out of about 50).
"Its not an offence to drive like a prat, half of London does"
WPC Martella, The Bill, circa 1989
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ethansx49
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Warrnambool
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vlinecars
V/Man - "Yeah!"
Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Moe, Victoria
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| vlinecars |
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:04 am
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| Somebody in the WWW wrote: | | Has this actually been confirmed, outside of posts on here? |
The Standard - Monday 13th October 2008 wrote: | The end of the line: Operator dumps rail freight company
BY ALEX JOHNSON
THE company carrying freight on the Warrnambool-Melbourne rail line has been dumped only seven months after it started work.
Warrnambool's rail freight terminal operator has revealed the Melbourne-based carrier, El Zorro, had failed to meet its expectations.
Westvic Container Handling managing director Warrick Loft said that, despite his patience with the relatively small operator, El Zorro "was going nowhere".
El Zorro business manager Geoff Tighe voiced his disappointment at Mr Loft's comments. He said Mr Loft had told El Zorro's operations manager the decision to switch providers was not related to El Zorro's performance but to logistical issues in Melbourne.
In March El Zorro stepped into the void left by Pacific National, three months after the country's largest rail freight operator announced plans to pull out of Victoria because of a poor grain harvest.
At the time Mr Loft hailed the El Zorro deal as "the start of a whole new era" for freight in the south-west.
On Thursday, however, El Zorro was given 10 days' notice and is expected to carry its final load to Melbourne on October 20.
The Warrnambool line's new operator will be Patrick, Australia's largest freight and stevedoring company with links to Pacific National and, unlike El Zorro, direct rail access to Melbourne docks.
Mr Loft aired his disappointment over El Zorro on its first day on the job, after seeing a rusty assortment of wagons roll into his yard, but vowed to "give them a go".
"The service levels (under El Zorro) were not consistent with the expectations of this company," he said last week.
"The original agreement I had with them, because they were new into the system, they needed to prove their worth before we could enter into a long-term arrangement.
"They have been unable to do that, which is disappointing."
Mr Tighe said his company had "bent over backwards" to provide Mr Loft with the best possible service.
When V/Line closed the track for maintenance, El Zorro had arranged trucks to send containers between Warrnambool and Melbourne free of charge, Mr Tighe said.
"We have tried to make it a viable service and hoped that he (Mr Loft) might be able to grow it," he said.
The blow for El Zorro came only weeks after the company started carrying mineral sands between Portland and Melbourne. |
Cheers,
Matt Julian
Railpage Australia™ Forums - Young Member of the Year, 2006 & 2008
Railpage Australia™ Forums - Most Informative Poster, 2006 & 2008
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larry_sanders
Station Staff
Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 10, 2008
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:00 pm
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I think El Zorro are better engaging in ballast working etc. Leave the real train running to V/line and PN.
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bingley hall
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: gone fishin
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tjrailway
Locomotive Fireman
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:13 pm
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| larry_sanders wrote: | | I think El Zorro are better engaging in ballast working etc. Leave the real train running to V/line and PN. |
On what basis do you make this assessment.
The Warrnambool was always doomed for failure, why, its simple.
V/line removed two crossing loops critical to the running of the train despite numerous protests from El Zorro. They decided to ban 9'6" boxes on 1200mm deck wagons even though PN/Freight Australia had been running on these types of wagons for over 15 years. On occasions, depending on the controller the train was put away at Lara when only marginally late.
It will be very interesting to see how Patricks/PN goes, good luck to them.
The Portland service started running a month ago and has been flawless in it's operation. This service took a considerable amount of traffic off the Warrnambool train. May-be the Warrnambool forwarder is a bit pissed off about that.
Looking at the Warrnambool train today it is running with wagons just as good as PN where providing i.e. CQRX, CQOY & ZQLX. Remember it takes time to mobilise equipment. Apparently there were other 40 foot wagons on the way which were earmarked for this train. It will be interesting to see where they are used now.
If El Zorro are that bad why would AWB sign a five year deal for 4 trains, why would Iluka have started the Portland train??
Larry, try doing a little research before shooting your mouth off next time!
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phower
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Looking! looking!
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larry_sanders
Station Staff
Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 10, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:32 pm
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| tjrailway wrote: | | larry_sanders wrote: | | I think El Zorro are better engaging in ballast working etc. Leave the real train running to V/line and PN. |
On what basis do you make this assessment.
The Warrnambool was always doomed for failure, why, its simple.
V/line removed two crossing loops critical to the running of the train despite numerous protests from El Zorro. They decided to ban 9'6" boxes on 1200mm deck wagons even though PN/Freight Australia had been running on these types of wagons for over 15 years. On occasions, depending on the controller the train was put away at Lara when only marginally late.
It will be very interesting to see how Patricks/PN goes, good luck to them.
The Portland service started running a month ago and has been flawless in it's operation. This service took a considerable amount of traffic off the Warrnambool train. May-be the Warrnambool forwarder is a bit pissed off about that.
Looking at the Warrnambool train today it is running with wagons just as good as PN where providing i.e. CQRX, CQOY & ZQLX. Remember it takes time to mobilise equipment. Apparently there were other 40 foot wagons on the way which were earmarked for this train. It will be interesting to see where they are used now.
If El Zorro are that bad why would AWB sign a five year deal for 4 trains, why would Iluka have started the Portland train??
Larry, try doing a little research before shooting your mouth off next time! |
Pn ran it for years with little problem,
don't get carried away with the AWB deal, word is it may be shaky
leave the real train running to V/line and PN
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phower
Assistant Commissioner
Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Looking! looking!
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:37 pm
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| larry_sanders wrote: | | tjrailway wrote: | | larry_sanders wrote: | | I think El Zorro are better engaging in ballast working etc. Leave the real train running to V/line and PN. |
On what basis do you make this assessment.
The Warrnambool was always doomed for failure, why, its simple.
V/line removed two crossing loops critical to the running of the train despite numerous protests from El Zorro. They decided to ban 9'6" boxes on 1200mm deck wagons even though PN/Freight Australia had been running on these types of wagons for over 15 years. On occasions, depending on the controller the train was put away at Lara when only marginally late.
It will be very interesting to see how Patricks/PN goes, good luck to them.
The Portland service started running a month ago and has been flawless in it's operation. This service took a considerable amount of traffic off the Warrnambool train. May-be the Warrnambool forwarder is a bit pissed off about that.
Looking at the Warrnambool train today it is running with wagons just as good as PN where providing i.e. CQRX, CQOY & ZQLX. Remember it takes time to mobilise equipment. Apparently there were other 40 foot wagons on the way which were earmarked for this train. It will be interesting to see where they are used now.
If El Zorro are that bad why would AWB sign a five year deal for 4 trains, why would Iluka have started the Portland train??
Larry, try doing a little research before shooting your mouth off next time! |
Pn ran it for years with little problem,
don't get carried away with the AWB deal, word is it may be shaky
leave the real train running to V/line and PN |
well why let El Zorro comit to purchasing new Locomtives to fullfill the contract .. among other stuff.. and AWB order Rollingstock of their own as well
Rail Fan Extrordonaire !!! OAP, ESQ.
Certified Tram Driver
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In Fact I am Certified & Licenced for many things . but not all??
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larry_sanders
Station Staff
Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 10, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:00 pm
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| phower wrote: | | larry_sanders wrote: | | tjrailway wrote: | | larry_sanders wrote: | | I think El Zorro are better engaging in ballast working etc. Leave the real train running to V/line and PN. |
On what basis do you make this assessment.
The Warrnambool was always doomed for failure, why, its simple.
V/line removed two crossing loops critical to the running of the train despite numerous protests from El Zorro. They decided to ban 9'6" boxes on 1200mm deck wagons even though PN/Freight Australia had been running on these types of wagons for over 15 years. On occasions, depending on the controller the train was put away at Lara when only marginally late.
It will be very interesting to see how Patricks/PN goes, good luck to them.
The Portland service started running a month ago and has been flawless in it's operation. This service took a considerable amount of traffic off the Warrnambool train. May-be the Warrnambool forwarder is a bit pissed off about that.
Looking at the Warrnambool train today it is running with wagons just as good as PN where providing i.e. CQRX, CQOY & ZQLX. Remember it takes time to mobilise equipment. Apparently there were other 40 foot wagons on the way which were earmarked for this train. It will be interesting to see where they are used now.
If El Zorro are that bad why would AWB sign a five year deal for 4 trains, why would Iluka have started the Portland train??
Larry, try doing a little research before shooting your mouth off next time! |
Pn ran it for years with little problem,
don't get carried away with the AWB deal, word is it may be shaky
leave the real train running to V/line and PN |
well why let El Zorro comit to purchasing new Locomtives to fullfill the contract .. among other stuff.. and AWB order Rollingstock of their own as well |
If you look at the AWB contract it is not only El Zorro as the only hook and pull
Other rail operators may be used
What Locomotives have El Zorro purchased? They lease everything apart from a couple of dodgy old Loco's
Last edited by larry_sanders on Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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larry_sanders
Station Staff
Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 10, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:02 pm
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[quote="larry_sanders"]| phower wrote: | | larry_sanders wrote: | | tjrailway wrote: | | larry_sanders wrote: | | I think El Zorro are better engaging in ballast working etc. Leave the real train running to V/line and PN. |
On what basis do you make this assessment.
The Warrnambool was always doomed for failure, why, its simple.
V/line removed two crossing loops critical to the running of the train despite numerous protests from El Zorro. They decided to ban 9'6" boxes on 1200mm deck wagons even though PN/Freight Australia had been running on these types of wagons for over 15 years. On occasions, depending on the controller the train was put away at Lara when only marginally late.
It will be very interesting to see how Patricks/PN goes, good luck to them.
The Portland service started running a month ago and has been flawless in it's operation. This service took a considerable amount of traffic off the Warrnambool train. May-be the Warrnambool forwarder is a bit pissed off about that.
Looking at the Warrnambool train today it is running with wagons just as good as PN where providing i.e. CQRX, CQOY & ZQLX. Remember it takes time to mobilise equipment. Apparently there were other 40 foot wagons on the way which were earmarked for this train. It will be interesting to see where they are used now.
If El Zorro are that bad why would AWB sign a five year deal for 4 trains, why would Iluka have started the Portland train??
Larry, try doing a little research before shooting your mouth off next time! |
Pn ran it for years with little problem,
don't get carried away with the AWB deal, word is it may be shaky
leave the real train running to V/line and PN |
well why let El Zorro comit to purchasing new Locomtives to fullfill the contract .. among other stuff.. and AWB order Rollingstock of their own as well |
If you look at the AWB contract it is not only El Zorro as the only hook and pull
Other rail operators may be used
What Locomotives have El Zorro purchased? They lease everything apart froma couple of dodgy old Loco's
AWB have purchased the wagons for their own use and whichever company they wish to use
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. And pigs might fly Now its back to pacific national. I am allowed to have my opinion same everyone else
