Seniors Week free V/Line travel

wongm · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:06 pm

Every year it happens, and the only thing worse is school holidays (because as well as crowding trains, they are also $%^ noisy). Seniors Week free V/Line travel is what I am on about. Just because it is free every senior decides to take advantage of it and go on a daytrip, ending up with comfortably full off peak trains being filled to peak time levels.

Since we can't can't exactly cut it without complaints and the 'they paid taxes all their lives and deserve something back', why doesn't each senior instead get given X number of free travel passes a year, each valid for a off peak trip. If you make X bigger than the number of days in Seniors Week, thery end up better off.

The main benefit is instead of a huge pack of freebie seekers in one week, they get spread out over the entire year. It also means seniors can actually travel to something they were actually intending to go to, and hence save money, instead of just going out because they can. Idea

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connexwest · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:19 pm

I agree with you Marcus- they do crowd the trains because and its free and a better solution would be to space out the travel over a year, instead of bunching it up to 4 or 5 days of the week.

Maybe its me, but the last few days that I've been travelling on the Ballarat line, I've noticed that instead of the usual single Vlocity unit, there's been another unit attached.

I guess seniors weeks does have its benefits.

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574M · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:41 pm

route14 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:36 am

Well, instead of giving them one PFV every year, you give them seven, problems eased.

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The Vinelander · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:02 am

Seniors Week has many city based structured activities and programmes.

This is the primary reason many seniors travel during this week. Consequently issuing free passes and encouraging seniors to travel over other times of the year won't work.
Many of the seniors who travel during Seniors Week don't travel much or at all during other times of the year.

Seniors who wish to travel during peak periods are AFAIK encouraged strongly to utilise overflow buses.

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route14 · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:57 pm

Right, road coaches are often provided for the Swan Hill service between SCS and Sunbury.

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Gwiwer · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:15 pm

The whole "Senior's Card" thing is based on a sense of belonging to a club albeit a very large one. There are always some Senior's Card activities going on somewhere.

Seniors' Week is more of a celebration of club membership than anything else but the biggest thing it gives to the membership is free travel almost without restriction throughout Victoria.

In previous years this has boosted patronage to uncomfortable levels on VLP services (as well as Melbourne trams and suburban trains) and some restrictions have had to be imposed and now exist as to days and times of travel.

The political control of the entire fares and ticketing structure means that we have seen significant reductions in many cash fares recently and, despite the addition of more trains to the network and more trips operated by them, the patronage system-wide has grown at a disproportionately fast rate. Trains are very much busier than they were 5 or 10 years ago.

It is not acceptable by most fare-paying passengers to be bumped off trains and put on road coaches (or expected to wait for a later train which in some cases can be several hours later) just because the train they expected to travel on is full of senior citizens enjoying their annual free beano.

It is equally unacceptable for those seniors to be denied the benefits due to them as cardholders.

A balance needs to be struck.

In my opinion there should be a pre-booking requirement for all seniors' card holders during this week on all non-suburban services and with access to trains quota-controlled with that quota based upon normal anticipated loadings or, for reservable services, upon existing and predicted reservations by fare-paying customers.

This might mean for example that only 10 free seats are available on a train which is known to already be a heavy loader. This does restrict the ability to offer train travel to those seniors but they might be offerred a road coach alternative in advance rather than purchasing a "train" ticket and arriving at - for example - Murchison East only to find they are denied access to the train and must wait for a coach which may or may not deliver them to their destination on time.

Most seniors are not making time-critical journeys and are only travelling because it is the week of the year in which they may do so free of charge; many do not travel otherwise. Thus arriving by train at a set time is less important than just getting there and back.

Perhaps for one week of the year it would be possible to utilise off-peak cpacity with trains normally stabled at Dudley Street to make out-and-back Senior's Specials to selected destinations. I realise track capacity might limit the scope for this with today's timetables but if a special were to be run down to Geelong soon after 9am it could return to Melbourne by lunchtime and make another round trip before the pm peak. Withsuch trains in the system free travel on timtabled servies could be abolished and the usual concession ticket required instead.

There is not one single answer which will satisfy all concerned. But Seniors' Week, for all that I applaud the concept and support it as a celebration of our older citizens, is a nightmare for public transport operators and the day to day fare-paying passengers alike.

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luznug · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:03 pm

Is Seniors week held on the same day Nationally?
Would having seniors week a public holiday ease the crowding of trains and shortage of Rollingstock?

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Gwiwer · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:51 pm

luznug · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:03 pm

Gwiwer · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:07 pm

Free travel on V/Line is very restricted or not permitted at all on Monday and Friday as they are busier days anyway.

Many seniors actually make a day trip out and back rather than staying away, though some certainly do make a little holiday of it.

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PClark · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:46 pm

To quote Gwiwer:-

"The political control of the entire fares and ticketing structure means that we have seen significant reductions in many cash fares recently and, despite the addition of more trains to the network and more trips operated by them, the patronage system-wide has grown at a disproportionately fast rate."

Therein lies the problem.

Senior's Week is nothing new and nor are other "peak" events such as school and public holidays, the Show, the footy finals, cricket test matches, the tennis and the Spring Racing Carnival.

What has happened is that dirt-cheap fares (and an 18 cents in the dollar cost recovery) have artificially inflated demand to the extent that the capacity of the system is severely overtaxed on a regular basis.

The principle of controlled "supply and demand" is totally ignored.

IMHO, the number of passengers being forced to either stand for long distances or being mustered like cattle onto "relief" busses is totally unacceptable and is the reason why (despite the "boom") most people who have an alternative won't go near a Vline train.

I deal with Seniors three days a week and can assure readers that a big proportion of the free Seniors' Week free trips are just day trips for no other purpose than to "go for a free ride".

That's OK if there's room for "real" passengers travelling for a purpose but I remember an incident some years ago when my accountant had to cancel an urgent (near tax time) appointment with me because he had to drive to and from Warrnambool twice in order to pick up his elderly mother to attend her sister's funeral in Melbourne.

Why couldn't she come up and back by train?

You've guessed it - it was Seniors Week and the trains were booked solid with freeloading day trippers.

xxxxlbear · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:34 pm

I have no problems with Senior Cits Week, and free travel AS LONG as it doesn't inconvience fare paying passengers.
If senior cits using public transport for free during the week, and causing regular fare paying commuters to stand, then there is a problem with capacity, to which Connex [and possibly Yarra Trams], V/Line, and the Department of Transport, should have foreseen, judging by previous years Senior Cits week patronage levels.

Gwiwer · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:10 pm

I have worked in and around Melbourne's public transport for 8 years now. I am also a fare-paying customer at present.

In those years Senior's Week has always caused capacity problems and resulted in the inability of fare-paying passengers to travel by their service of choice at times.

In respect of that some restrictions have been imposed in more recent years notably the requirement to pre-book on reserveable trains and the ban on travel at the busiest times / days. There were reports some years ago that local passengers were left stranded (and in the hope of boarding the mid-day train several hours later) along the Albury line at smaller locations north of Seymour as the morning train was filled with Senior's Week travellers from Wodonga.

This situation has become rather more acute since the fares reductions of recent years and the consequent upturn in public transport patronage.

The upturn itself is most welcome. Not least in the light of recent events which have seen private motoring costs escalate sharply by unprecedented amounts and also by the very real prospect at present of a major global recession affection Australian fortunes more generally.

The problem is that those who are willing to pay are being bumped off or denied travel at times (not by any means on all routes or services) and therefore form a negative impression of both the service provider (V/Line for the purposes of this thread) and of our senior citizens generally.

I too would be extremely unhappy to be told I could not travel when I chose to do so - and that my fare money was not required - because the service I use (perhaps daily) was booked out for free travel by those who do not need to use it nor would do so any other week of the year.

I believe that my suggestion of a quota system would provide the best compromise in continuing to support the Senior's Week concept and recognising the service many of our older citizens have given whilst not denying travel, or travel by the anticipated mode and service, to those paying full or concession cash fares.

Equally I have no argument whatsoever with a train being fully booked by a group of concession fare paying seniors. It might be harsh reality if I still could not board but at least they are contributing something to the cost of the service rather than just freeloading at the expense of others who might then be unable to reach or return from work or other important appointments.

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PClark · Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:25 pm

xxxxlbear

I have no problem with your comment:-

"I have no problems with Senior Cits Week, and free travel AS LONG as it doesn't inconvience fare paying passengers."

In my last post I did say:-

"That's OK if there's room for "real" passengers travelling for a purpose"

Which is much the same thing.

My beef is with the 20% ACROSS THE BOARD fare reduction before the last election. This was announced at a time when massive changes had just been made to the way Vline services were delivered and when patronage was already rising substantially.

The changes meant that, although there were many more services, a lot of them were being run with one or two car trainsThat's OK if there's room for "real" passengers travelling for a purpose.

The fare reduction at this critical time created a flood of new and artificially induced "business" that has resulted in often chaotic conditions instead of controlled and civilised growth.

I could go on but would go OT and am about to dish up dinner.