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oldrailfan
Banned
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Last Visited: Oct 24, 2008
Location: Banned
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:36 pm
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But.. big BUT 100 trucks are way more pollutive than 1 or 2 trains.
TRAINS are the way for the future.. they are able to carry alot more than a single truck load.
Every day in Sydney i drive and see thousands of trucks on the F3 going going NORTH and SOUTH, when all their loads could go via numerous freight runs.. thus saving time and the environment.
Surely you understand this too?
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Grantham
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 19, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: I'm with stupid!
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:38 pm
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Well, dur.
M
Save oil, bring back steam. Vote #1 Bromage!
Lord High Minister to Lithgovia for Breweries and Bootlegging
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 19, 2008
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Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:01 pm
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| awsgc24 wrote: | | johnboy wrote: | | awsgc24 wrote: |
The coal trains could be unloaded on one side of Mudgee, and the coal trucked via the highway passing through the middle of Mudgee to a loader on the other side of Mudgee |
...and Delta uses about 4000 tonnes of coal per day and they intend to build two more gensets at Mt Piper.
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It seems that the council prefers 4000/40 = 100 trucks per day through their town, rather than 1 x 4000T train. That makes a lot of good sense. Amongst other things, 100 trucks require more drivers, creating more employment. |
& watch the reaction when they have to foot the road maintenance bills. The amount of current damage is a pittance to what they will then see.
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awsgc24
Minister for Railways
Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Sydney, NSW
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Brettlo
Beginner
Joined: Jan 12, 2006
Last Visited: Oct 5, 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:41 pm
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I dont know why they need to spend all that money. My uncle is a gangy from south and done all the re sllippering out there. As being a mudgee resident you do see the level crossings getn regular testing to keep them commisioned.
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johnboy
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 22, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 18, 2008
Location: Black stump outside Gulgong NSW
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:48 pm
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| a6et wrote: |
Unless the whole of the Railway act has been chucked out by an Act of Parliment, any line not shown as closed, all come under the Act. |
Actually, there is no such thing as a Railway Act in NSW.
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johnboy
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 22, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 18, 2008
Location: Black stump outside Gulgong NSW
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:57 pm
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| Brettlo wrote: | | I dont know why they need to spend all that money. My uncle is a gangy from south and done all the re sllippering out there. As being a mudgee resident you do see the level crossings getn regular testing to keep them commisioned. |
According to RIC in June last year, they reported to Mid Western Council that there are:
- 100,000 sleepers requiring replacement to lift the line above the 20km/h limit
- 12 bridges from Kandos to Gulgong need to be replaced to take any serious weight. with the bridge at Lue will be closed to all traffic soon.
- new signalling systems required if the line was to be used for serious freight operations
estimated cost in 2007 was $80m, which RIC asked the Mid Western Council to help with. (fat-chance)
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 19, 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:38 pm
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| johnboy wrote: | | a6et wrote: |
Unless the whole of the Railway act has been chucked out by an Act of Parliment, any line not shown as closed, all come under the Act. |
Actually, there is no such thing as a Railway Act in NSW. |
So you are saying that the act has been removed?
The railway act, did not just cover the operations of the rail freight, passenger services, & lines, but also the regulations & laws that applied to its whole operations as well as simple things such as the requirement to purchase tickets to travel on trains, & punishments for not obtaining the tickets etc, including the punishments for all offences.
The railway act, includes such novel things like trespassing, & the need for various permissions to enter upon railway land, uses for, dispossal of & the list goes on, even things such as the safe working, protection of workers, to name a mere fraction of the things contained in it.
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johnboy
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 22, 2004
Last Visited: Nov 18, 2008
Location: Black stump outside Gulgong NSW
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:29 am
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| a6et wrote: | | johnboy wrote: | | a6et wrote: |
Unless the whole of the Railway act has been chucked out by an Act of Parliment, any line not shown as closed, all come under the Act. |
Actually, there is no such thing as a Railway Act in NSW. |
So you are saying that the act has been removed?
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There has not been one Act for many years.
| a6et wrote: |
The railway act, did not just cover the operations of the rail freight, passenger services, & lines, but also the regulations & laws that applied to its whole operations as well as simple things such as the requirement to purchase tickets to travel on trains, & punishments for not obtaining the tickets etc, including the punishments for all offences.
The railway act, includes such novel things like trespassing, & the need for various permissions to enter upon railway land, uses for, dispossal of & the list goes on, even things such as the safe working, protection of workers, to name a mere fraction of the things contained in it. |
Most of what you mention is covered under the Railway Safety Act 2002 and/or the Rail Safety Regulation 2003. But they don't not cover anything about closing a railway line.
Railcorp and ARTC are governed under the Transport Administration Act 1988 and their regulations.
There are many Acts in NSW for rail such as:
Border Railways Act
Broken Hill to South Australia Railway Agreement Act
Bungendore to Captains Flat Railway Act
Canowindra to Grega Railway Act
Coonabarabran to Burren Junction Railway Act
Government Railways Fencing Act
... the list goes on with about 30 acts relating to particular lines etc.
I think the most recent closure was the Dorrigo line in 1993 when the "Glenreagh to Dorrigo Railway Closure Act 1993" was passed.
But there is no one "Railways Act" in NSW. I think what most people refer to was the old "Government Railways Act" which was repealed some years ago.
A full listing a Acts in NSW are available at:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/scanact/inforce/NONE/0
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arctic
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:37 am
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| johnboy wrote: |
...and Delta uses about 4000 tonnes of coal per day and they intend to build two more gensets at Mt Piper.
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I assume you are using only Wang and Piper in that number as Delta also have coal fired power stations at Vales Point and Munmorah on the central coast.
Even for only Wang & Piper the 4000 tonnes also seems a bit low as this is only enough to run the units at full load for 5 hours a day. I think a more realistic number might be 15000-20000 tonnes.
A single unit (of the four - 2 @ Piper, 2 @ Wang) might use 4000 t per day.
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 19, 2008
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:55 am
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| johnboy wrote: | | a6et wrote: | | johnboy wrote: | | a6et wrote: |
Unless the whole of the Railway act has been chucked out by an Act of Parliment, any line not shown as closed, all come under the Act. |
Actually, there is no such thing as a Railway Act in NSW. |
So you are saying that the act has been removed?
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There has not been one Act for many years.
| a6et wrote: |
The railway act, did not just cover the operations of the rail freight, passenger services, & lines, but also the regulations & laws that applied to its whole operations as well as simple things such as the requirement to purchase tickets to travel on trains, & punishments for not obtaining the tickets etc, including the punishments for all offences.
The railway act, includes such novel things like trespassing, & the need for various permissions to enter upon railway land, uses for, dispossal of & the list goes on, even things such as the safe working, protection of workers, to name a mere fraction of the things contained in it. |
Most of what you mention is covered under the Railway Safety Act 2002 and/or the Rail Safety Regulation 2003. But they don't not cover anything about closing a railway line.
Railcorp and ARTC are governed under the Transport Administration Act 1988 and their regulations.
There are many Acts in NSW for rail such as:
Border Railways Act
Broken Hill to South Australia Railway Agreement Act
Bungendore to Captains Flat Railway Act
Canowindra to Grega Railway Act
Coonabarabran to Burren Junction Railway Act
Government Railways Fencing Act
... the list goes on with about 30 acts relating to particular lines etc.
I think the most recent closure was the Dorrigo line in 1993 when the "Glenreagh to Dorrigo Railway Closure Act 1993" was passed.
But there is no one "Railways Act" in NSW. I think what most people refer to was the old "Government Railways Act" which was repealed some years ago.
A full listing a Acts in NSW are available at:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/scanact/inforce/NONE/0 |
Fair Nuff
As I finished on the Job at the end of 88, & being involved in several regional working parties including SRA, community & counciles up until then, the Railway act was used very much as part of pressures to maintain & retain.
When the election around that time came in that brought in the one term wonder of Ray Chappel in Armidale & the last term of Noel Parke, & their sell off to the party after promising the world, its easy to see that there was a lot of work well under way in that regard.
The Transport administration act of 1988, would no doubt be very much a watered down act compared the original, especially in the areas of the responsibility to the people of NSW.
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jd4980
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Last Visited: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Grafton
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:57 pm
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I can't comment on the capacity of councils to cause trouble, but never under estimate the power of the NIMBY. Here in Grafton we, (PN and Interail) have been banished out of town by ARTC for crew change purposes due to noise of trains stopping and starting at our respective offices. We still run past these clowns doorsteps, same alignment through town as before, just not allowed to stop. If we stopped on the air the act of stopping was intrusive, if we stopped in dyno, the run out between couplers taking the stretch was unacceptable. They have traded trains rolling through town at an easy pace to stop and conduct roll bys, from track speed shaking tiles loose on rooves. Dead sets clowns, but not as bigger clowns as those that listen to these nimby's and let them have their way.
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a6et
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 19, 2008
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:25 pm
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| jd4980 wrote: | | I can't comment on the capacity of councils to cause trouble, but never under estimate the power of the NIMBY. Here in Grafton we, (PN and Interail) have been banished out of town by ARTC for crew change purposes due to noise of trains stopping and starting at our respective offices. We still run past these clowns doorsteps, same alignment through town as before, just not allowed to stop. If we stopped on the air the act of stopping was intrusive, if we stopped in dyno, the run out between couplers taking the stretch was unacceptable. They have traded trains rolling through town at an easy pace to stop and conduct roll bys, from track speed shaking tiles loose on rooves. Dead sets clowns, but not as bigger clowns as those that listen to these nimby's and let them have their way. |
Its something that has gotten worse over the years, as objections to any & everything is fair game. Yet, train noise has been an issue for years. The 59cl book tells of the issues of the oil thumping & complaints from residants at Denistone.
I can remember working on them as oilies, & aside from the smell of the burning oil that accentuated headaches caused by the thumping it was not pleasant, & over flat areas, it was easy to hear, & you could actually feel the thump in the ground. Something that some of those mobile boom boxes that pull up next to you at traffic lights, & you can feel your car vibrate from them.
My first 81cl encounter was at WCK when one arrived in the yard, & to go in for crew training. As it came down the hill you actually felt the ground vibrate, & as it passed the vibration was very much in line with the beat of the motor.
Sitting at Pangella one morning, the signalman called me over & said the next train had an 81 on it, & as you listened & tuned in, you could actually feel & hear it long before it came into sight, the vibration was worse owing to it being in Dynamics.
The other thing I had noticed over the years was as wagons were changed & the size increased was the change in the couplers, & train jerking. Previously the auto's had supressers in them that had a softening effect when coupling up, & the train shock when bunching up & stretching seemed much quieter & not as severe.
From around the time of the BDX, this seemed to change, the other wagon I really noticed it on was the CDY, or NOCY when coupling up it seemed like you were hitting a brick wall, from that time on, all the new wagons from what I can remember were all the same.
Currently I live around 15 minutes from the main western line, & at night you can often hear the coupler bang & the engine noise is quite distinct, so if I can hear them, I can imagine what it is like living alongside the railway line.
That aside, & as far as I am concerned, if a person choses to purchase a house, or rents a house along side the railway line, then they have to expect the noise & as such really do not have a right to cry after the event. Whenever I moved, & purchased homes, I took into consideration the overall environment that surrounded the house, & if there was going to be an issue, then I had the choice of accepting or rejecting it.
I wonder, even allowing that the modern trains do have these harder shocks etc, how they would have lived when yards such as Grafton were open 24x7 & had 2 shunting engines.
Today people living along the highways, call for trucks to be reduced, & send everything by rail, whilst those along the railways want the opposite>
The government therefor must act on this. Supply everyone with ear muffs.
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wrongroad
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jun 03, 2006
Last Visited: Nov 19, 2008
Location: Grafton
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:37 pm
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Off thread a little,
As jd4980 has mentioned, there is a huge NIMBY group in Grafton. The best one I know of was a real estate agent demanding from country link and pac nat that they not schedule trains between 10.45 and 11.30 am on a particular Saturday as he was conducting an auction of a Pound Street house. (Pound Street runs along the Grafton Station site and the Grafton yards)
He did not want out of town buyers to know that there were trains running. In fact he had told them all that the line was now closed. (all this during the closure of the Murwillimbah branch line and he found it easy to con people)
He was not a happy camper when he got both an up freighter at 10.50am and an up XPT about half an hour behind. Both services were right on time.
Have you noticed that most NIMBY's start their media statements with, "We are all for development but.......................
Regards and respect.
For the record, I live less than one hundred metres from the North Coast line.
Enjoy the world we make
Your model rail road is a work of art. Be proud of what you can achieve and strive to be better.
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oldrailfan
Banned
Joined: Oct 06, 2008
Last Visited: Oct 24, 2008
Location: Banned
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:03 pm
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Thats the thing with NIMBYs, they complain about trains and planes mostly but not the common and long term noisy items like cars and trucks that might go by their place all day.
A constant stream of cars and trucks will affect your hearing more badly than infrequence roars of a train or plane every so so.
NIMBYS really need to wake up.
I find driving from Belmont to Sydney highly annoying as the car goes over so badly surfaced freeway on the F3 and it is LOUD as riple noise of CLICK CLICK CLICK for around 1hr of the drive.
A train will last for only most 2-3mins, yet cars/trucks again all day and if someone cant complain about cars and trucks, you then know they are BSA.
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