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J-C
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Victoria
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:06 am
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I don't think anyone has asked but what happend to Y145?
Formally known as HHHHH
CMPS member.
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Deep Throat
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 21, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Hanging out with Donald Snerd
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:08 am
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In all seriousness: work something out with the motorcaders that if they pay X amount they get benefits. Not an S circular (as they will get leaked to the Yahoo groups about 3.2 seconds after they're released) but other benefits such as if the train is running early or late, they get an SMS, they can call a specified TO who can tell them where the damn train actually is, first notification as to any changes or delays (again via mobile) and the cost plus profit goes back to the group.
Anonymous - and proud of it.
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Ballast_Plough
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Lilydale, Vic
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:37 am
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Tricky one - you can't stop people from motorcading but they should certainly be encouraged to utilise (and pay for!) the various meal options and some of the trip options if appropriate. At the very least, I'd be happy to pay 50 bucks if I was issued with a gunzel filter for the camera!
My pics here - and the Forsayth Goods here!
Brendan McKenna
Member / Volunteer PBR, YVTR, past member of PRR, VGR!!! |
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jemo27
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Last Visited: Oct 25, 2008
Location: Kulwin line
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:57 am
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one thing that may have restriced passenger numbers was that the train did not get back into melbourne until 10pm. This meant that for any local people from the Buloke shire who need to be back home for monday morning it was really hard to to get back from Melbourne.
My father did it but only because we just made the 22:15 Bendigo service and he stayed in Bendigo sunday night and left by 7:30 the next morning, when then he would have not been back Home before 9:30 or probably about 10am which could be a concern. If the train went via Bendigo, then maybe more locals would have gone to Bendigo and got Bus back Sunday night
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Wycheproof
Station Staff
Joined: Oct 13, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 3, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:18 pm
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| jemo27 wrote: | | If the train went via Bendigo, then maybe more locals would have gone to Bendigo and got Bus back Sunday night |
Via Bendiog would have been a cheaper and quicker and more local option but it was not possible for a number of resons including the fast trains (single track much of the way) and the quality of the track between Bendigo and Inglewood (suitable for freight, not passengers as I understand it)
It was also due to the fast trains that the return journey went via Geelong. It did not do this on Friday night as it was an off peak time.
The departure and arrival time on Sunday is also not something we have a lot of control over. Your point about locals going to Melbourne to catch the train is valid but there are two sides to that too - I know that some people said they were pleased that the train left later than the original 10:00am departure so they could do more of the things that Wycheproof had organised as there was not enough time on Saturday.
guess there are always going to be times which suit different people and hopefully we can find the balance of timetable, price, consist, etc which makes the majority happy and we can then get a financially viable charter going every year or so.
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AclassGunzel
Junior Train Controller
Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:19 pm
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The whole idea of motorcading is to get photo's & filming of the special train in action that you cannot get while riding the train. I think the only way is to have photostops like tours used to. They need to cater for those that want to take photos at unique locations like I did with the flying scotsman, we had about 20 photostop opportunities on that tour!
Last edited by AclassGunzel on Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wycheproof
Station Staff
Joined: Oct 13, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 3, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:22 pm
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At the very least, I'd be happy to pay 50 bucks if I was issued with a gunzel filter for the camera!| Quote: |
ee what we can arrange! |
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Wycheproof
Station Staff
Joined: Oct 13, 2008
Last Visited: Nov 3, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:27 pm
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| AclassGunzel wrote: | | The whole idea of motorcading is to get photo's & filming of the special train in action. I think the only way is to have photostops like tours used to. They need to cater for those that want to take photos. |
You're right - that is the idea of motorcading but the central issue being disussed is that this does not pay for the expenses of a charter/tour (whether private of by SRV or other group). If there is no money to run the train then there can be no motorcading. 
It would seem mutually beneficial for both motorcaders and festivals (like Wytcheproof's 'Steaming up Broadway') to brainstorm some ideas and work together to meet both sets of objectives as both of us essentially need the bums on seats for the train to go.
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VRfan
Moderator
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: In front of my computer :-p
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:48 pm
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If a way could be found for passengers to get reasonable shots of the train, then I think you would see some people who do motorcade getting back onto the train.
Unfortunately today's nanny state has ruined the simple concept of a photostop. It's now considered too dangerous (even though they occurred for many years and AFAIK nobody was killed or seriously injured).
However, this is probably the least of problems facing heritage operations. IMHO not allowing tender first running (even with a diesel piloting the steamer) is a bigger killer to interesting tours.
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Ballast_Plough
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Lilydale, Vic
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:39 pm
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The dilemma is trying to satisfy all peoples objectives and recognising that some of these may actually clash. In some cases there may be a way of finding a logistical compromise - but the cost is preventative. No doubt this is the sort of thing that has been thrashed out ad finitum by the organising committee but the way I see it is you look at your stakeholders:
1. Wycheproof locals.
Objective - showcase the town and attractions to both regional visitors and especially Melbourne folk.
Requirements - a passenger train to feature as centrepiece - preferably steam. Maximise the "captive hours" of the target audience which means spending the good part of both Saturday and Sunday in town. People in town = spending dollars so the more time in town, better for the community. Ability to run shuttle trips to a local destination as it may well be the first experience on a train for lots of young kids.
2. Visitors from Melbourne - railfans.
Objective - experience a train trip of a good length of time that runs to time, even though the trip may be extensive in overall time and which visits a destination with lots of activities.
Requirements - a journey by passenger train; timing is fairly flexible and can be day or night. On board accommodation doesn't have to be 5 star and the target audience pretty much understands exactly what this entails. A primary activity amongst the target audience is photography and a bonus would be some form of organised motorcading (bus) on either a shuttle run or appropriate sections of the trip to/from the destination during daylight hours.
3. Visitors from Melbourne - non railfans.
Objective - experience a day activity which is something away from the typical day trip to Sovereign Hill.
Requirements - a journey by passenger train which ideally fits into a 1 day period. At worst, includes an overnight stop at a comfortable motel. Train travel should ideally be during daylight hours - sole purpose of the trip for this audience is to see the countryside and the destination. These people just want to "do something a bit different" and aren't too phased if it's a steam loco up front or a diesel or even a Sprinter.
How quickly could a V/Locity to Ballarat and Sprinter to Wycheproof get there on a Saturday morning?
Can empty cars for town shuttles be taken in advance empty cars on a goods and left in the siding?
Could a train arrive midday on a Saturday and depart midday on a Sunday and still leave enough time for activities in the town?
If trying to capture the non-railfan audience, is it best targetted for a long weekend? Daylight trip up on the Saturday, full day in town Sunday, daylight trip home Monday with 2 nights accommodation?
My pics here - and the Forsayth Goods here!
Brendan McKenna
Member / Volunteer PBR, YVTR, past member of PRR, VGR!!! |
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TheRev
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: On the phone.
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:57 pm
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| pheonics wrote: | <snipped>
I reckon the following combinations would give some railfans a reason to go on the train, as it is not always accessable to motorcade the train that is over night.
R761, R707 & S313.
D3 658 & R761.
D3 658 & T356.
K153 & K190.
K153, K153, D3 658.
K153, T356.
K190 & R761.
D3 658, R761 & R707.
R761, T395 & T356
<snipped> |
I think you're getting a little too ambitious with some of those proposals. The idea would be to have two smaller engines, with a couple of diesels behind them to do most of the work. R's are nice and all, but they are a tad too big and do like the coal and water. The D3 or K's would be perfect.
From memory, J515 only had to stop for water twice between Ballarat and Mildura, which isn't too bad - this was with diesel assistance.
R761 took water at Ballarat, was topped up at Maryborough; then another stop was made at Charlton. Two smaller steam locos should be able to do the same if the diesels take the weight of the train. The more a steam loco works, the more coal and water it consumes.
Having the diesels on hand will certainly reduce this problem.
Suggested loco combos:
D3+K+S+S
D3+K+T+T
D3+K+T+S
Or substitute a K for the D3.
A bus is a glorified toaster on wheels.
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pheonics
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jul 22, 2005
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Firing K153 down the mainline!
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:03 pm
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| TheRev wrote: | | pheonics wrote: | <snipped>
I reckon the following combinations would give some railfans a reason to go on the train, as it is not always accessable to motorcade the train that is over night.
R761, R707 & S313.
D3 658 & R761.
D3 658 & T356.
K153 & K190.
K153, K153, D3 658.
K153, T356.
K190 & R761.
D3 658, R761 & R707.
R761, T395 & T356
<snipped> |
I think you're getting a little too ambitious with some of those proposals. The idea would be to have two smaller engines, with a couple of diesels behind them to do most of the work. R's are nice and all, but they are a tad too big and do like the coal and water. The D3 or K's would be perfect.
From memory, J515 only had to stop for water twice between Ballarat and Mildura, which isn't too bad - this was with diesel assistance.
R761 took water at Ballarat, was topped up at Maryborough; then another stop was made at Charlton. Two smaller steam locos should be able to do the same if the diesels take the weight of the train. The more a steam loco works, the more coal and water it consumes.
Having the diesels on hand will certainly reduce this problem.
Suggested loco combos:
D3+K+S+S
D3+K+T+T
D3+K+T+S
Or substitute a K for the D3. |
Yeah good point mate. I would not mind seeing the Old girl travel up to Wycheproof. & It would be nice to see K153 or K190 sitting next to K167.
I like the combination of D3+K+T+T.
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Junior
Rodgie Dodgie
Joined: May 27, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
Location: Allansford
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:00 pm
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I chased the train on the way up. Yes i finished a 12 hour shift and chased. Then came home after the shuttles due to work on Sunday. Work will always be a factor on these tours as people can't always get two or three days off. Look at how many people only took photos one way. Mostly on the sunday. Most of the photos i have seen have come from people i know, and i know they had prior commitments either on the Sat or Sunday. People like Henry and the young ones can't afford to go. Hence this is a catch 22 situation. The only thing that i can say is yes a photo bus would have been a good idea but for a chance of 3 or 4 photo oppotunity's is it worth the cost?
Drink Red wine by the BOTTLE its good for you and grow hairs on your chest. Beer is nearly as good. Rogie. Rogie.
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Flatop
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jan 07, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 1, 2008
Location: Some where in a Cab
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:54 pm
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Most motorcaders are more interested in getting photos. something you can no longer get on the train.get the photostops back then you will get more.I vowed never to go on a steamrail trip again after what happened on the trip to piangil.I only traveled on that trip to get photos up north where apass train had not been for years.What shots did i get nil.who got the shots all the locals.
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VBAndy
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 2, 2008
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:54 pm
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I've always preferred motorcading, even before photostops were killed off. I guess its a simple matter of chasing the train gives you more freedom as apposed to being a passenger.
I choose my photo spots, choose who chases with me & I can go home whenever I want to. Not to mention that 99% of the time motorcading is cheaper than riding the train.
I used to pay a "motorcaders fee." I'd make a $15 donation to the group and they would give me a circular, but for reasons unknown to me...that arrangment was no longer allowed.
So I really don't pay attention when people complain about motorcaders not paying their way, I used to but the groups cut off that option.
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