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Knowitall
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:06 am
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I have noticed that the 9:51am express from Werribee to Flinders st has been cut from the new timetable with no replacement
What other services have been dropped accross the network
So much for increasing services
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Last edited by Knowitall on Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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fullofrubbish
Assistant Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:41 am
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1758 Flinders Street-Riversdale
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:37 am
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The removal without direct replacement of just two trips across the network is hardly a significant service cut other than to those who used the services and find the earlier or later trips less convenient.
The 5.58 Riversdale, a lightly-used train, has several alternative options within a few minutes and the Alamein trains either side are to be built up to 6 cars which actually increases capacity overall from 3 3-car trains to 2 6-car ones or 12 instead of 9 carriages.
For Werribee line passengers the loss of an up express, albeit not in the peak hour, has just a little more impact. There is an all-stations train 5 minutes ahead and the basic 20-minute off-peak headway remains unaltered. That basic service does take a little longer to reach the City as it makes additional calls and runs via Altona. It is also known that those trains are well used.
Overall there is a fairly respectable number of additional services including some new late night up trips on Fridays and Saturdays. Many lines benefit in some way from the new timetables while few lose anything at all.
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Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts  )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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Knowitall
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:03 pm
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| Gwiwer wrote: | The removal without direct replacement of just two trips across the network is hardly a significant service cut other than to those who used the services and find the earlier or later trips less convenient.
For Werribee line passengers the loss of an up express, albeit not in the peak hour, has just a little more impact. There is an all-stations train 5 minutes ahead and the basic 20-minute off-peak headway remains unaltered. That basic service does take a little longer to reach the City as it makes additional calls and runs via Altona. It is also known that those trains are well used.
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So they are the only services pulled ???????
Both the 9:46am and the 9:51am services are both very well patronised both regularly standing room only, meaning there will now be a possibilaity of people not being able to get on the train at all as it progesses down the line, and the increased likelyhood of major delays.
Not a smart move when there is no real need to remove it
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fast01
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:31 pm
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Servive Cuts.. Is that what they are calling Emo's nowdays? 
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:42 pm
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The reason given by Connex why the 9.51am Werribee to Flinders Street service has been withdrawn to accommodate for the new services.
My understanding Connex with the state government has developed a three-year plan to improve services on the Werribee line, for example: by mid-2009 there will be a 10 minute inter-peak frequency on the Werribee line.
In 2010, the Laverton turnback will provide additional capacity and so they will allow for the Werribee service to have access to the express route more often.
I hope Connex will go with a two tier service for the Werribee line, so allows people from Laverton to have access to the train service in peak time.
May be off the topic:
There is no way the Geelong service can continue to run via Werribee after the introduction of more services on the Werribee Line and because of this Geelong service need to travel via Sunshine soon as possible.
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Knowitall
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:04 pm
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| Quote: | | The reason given by Connex why the 9.51am Werribee to Flinders Street service has been withdrawn to accommodate for the new services |
What new service, the only new service is like at 7am ish
first how does that new service affect the 9:51?
It Can't.....
And
What new services are being implimented instead of the 9:51
None.... its a load of crap
| Quote: | | My understanding Connex with the state government has developed a three-year plan to improve services on the Werribee line, for example: by mid-2009 there will be a 10 minute inter-peak frequency on the Werribee line |
Fine and Dandy - When that 10 Minute service is in place then re evaluate its need but untill that 10 minute service is in place it is a service cut
| Quote: | May be off the topic:
There is no way the Geelong service can continue to run via Werribee after the introduction of more services on the Werribee Line and because of this Geelong service need to travel via Sunshine soon as possible |
Simple solution to the Geelong issues
Electrify the Geelong line extend the Werribee service to Geelong and hve every second train a through train
Werribee
Geelong
Werribee
Geelong
Improving the service on both line 10 min service to Werribee and a 20 min service to Geelong
No need to reroute to an already busy line
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:07 pm
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Permanent bustitution imho 
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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Somebody in the WWW
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:14 pm
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| melbtrip wrote: | | so allows people from Laverton to have access to the train service in peak time. |
Peak hour trains already stop at Laverton, infact all Werribee Line services do.
| Knowitall wrote: | | Electrify the Geelong line |
Why?
| Knowitall wrote: | | extend the Werribee service to Geelong and hve every second train a through train |
Why on earth would you run a suburban all stations service to somewhere that is clearly an interurban destination that should be serviced with a separate tier?
And what is with the "electric means suburban train stopping all" mentality in Victoria?
" The trains at Pennant Hills run roughly every half hour. Nobody in their right mind uses a service that shoddy. That so many do just proves how many dumb and/or desperate people there are in Sydney." - MrPC
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:18 pm
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| Quote: | | it is a service cut |
Only in as much as a train already operated as an extra to the required service level will no longer be operated.
One train will not run in the future. It is in a timeslot which makes it attractive to off-peak city visitors but if the train were a part of the main peak service then the validity for its withdrawal might be more seriously questionable.
My belief is that the 9.51 up is formed of a set returning to stable in the Melbourne area as there is no space for it at Werribee through the day. The reason it reaches Werribee in the first place is that it comes off a morning peak working which has to run down to a suitable location (and probably with very few passengers aboard) to provide space for a following service rather than shunt to a siding at perhaps 8.30 and cause conflicting moves at the height of the morning peak.
Connex is aware of the load factors so choose to run this trip as a fast passenger working rather than empty cars which would be the alternative.
I note that thus far only perhaps one or two people are making any noise at all about its withdrawal. It's not as if there is no alternative. And it's not even the only spark to take the direct route so for gunzel interest there remain several other direct express trains to and from Werribee.
My Annual Christmas Quiz is HERE
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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Knowitall
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:44 pm
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| Somebody in the WWW wrote: | | Knowitall wrote: | | extend the Werribee service to Geelong and hve every second train a through train |
Why on earth would you run a suburban all stations service to somewhere that is clearly an interurban destination that should be serviced with a separate tier?
And what is with the "electric means suburban train stopping all" mentality in Victoria? |
Geelong is only another 25 minutes from Werribee
No one said anything about stopping all stations
Running Express NME-FSY-NPT-LAV than all staions to geelong would be about the same running time as a Pakenham maybe about 5-10 min more
This interurban rubbish is just an excuse for Vline travellers to try and keep their exclusive little trains instead of allowing works that would benifit more than a few
Think of the enviromental benifits, the increase in service, the reduction of delays because of lost paths the list goes on
Geelong passengers really need to think of what really can be gained from having one service provider on the line instead of two fighting for the very little space there is
If you have all Geelong trains running express every 20 min and Werribee's stopping all stations every 20 minutes, you have your 10 minute service to werribee that the government wants to impliment and Geelong gets a massive increase in services, and the patronage will grow in accordance with it garunteed
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drwaddles
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:49 pm
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That's not a proper 10-minute service - the stopping patterns, travel times and destinations are not even the same 
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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melbtrip
Chief Commissioner
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:59 pm
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How about this idea:
Service
Peak
..off peak
Werribee
.7 .5
10 to 15* minutes
Geelong
..15
.20 to 30* minutes
*non busy times for example Sunday mornings
Geelong services every second train.
Image opens in a new window[/img]
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Gwiwer
Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:14 pm
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As long as Werribee, Williamstown and Geelong / Warrnambool trains all have to share the same pair of tracks for a part of their journey there will be a conflict of interests between them no matter who runs the service.
It is not the operator nor the "exclusive little trains" which are the problem, it is the global timetabling and track capacity.
The present timetable works but is unable to offer as many trains as might be desireable. The Government, who ultimately are responsible for offerring the service at all, has flagged that a 10-minute headway "on the Werribee Line" may be introduced.
That may or may not be a train every ten minutes to Werribee. Those trains might or might not be a mix of Connex suburban services and VLP inter-urban trains.
There are many potential options.
Given that electrification to Geelong is not going to happen by the time this 10-minute headway should be introduced and neither, it seems, will the Laverton turnback be ready, then I can see that the existing service pattern would be retained with additional trains to Werribee every 20 minutes running direct as there is insufficient capacity (and lesser customer demand) via tha Altona loop.
That may lead to the service developing into Laverton via Altona / Werribee direct as a two-tier timetable when the turnback becomes available and at that time there would become additional paths for more V/Line trains which might not be the case with sparks running through to Werribee six times an hour due to the conflicting moves required.
If the timetable is well planned it should be perfectly possible to have a repeating pattern every 20 minutes of Laverton via Altona all stations followed by Werribee direct limited express not serving South Kensington, Seddon or Spotswood and which closes up to the Laverton at Newport and "overtakes" while that train runs via Altona, followed by a Geelong line service just ahead of the next Laverton stopper which then closes up to the Werribee train at that location.
Note that this is suggesting there might be a 20-minute headway to Geelong also; not all of those trains needs to serve all stations. Melbourne (Southern Cross) - Werribee - Geelong could be an hourly super-express option some of which might be Warrnambool trains.
A three-tiers stopping pattern might also be developed for the Geeolng line with one train hourly serving Footscray, Newport, Werribee and all stations to Geelong, one stopping Newport, Werribee, Lara and all Geelong stations and one super-express.
Thus all stations are served, passengers wishing to travel from minor suburban stations and those via Altona to points beyond simply change at Laverton while those from suburban stations not served by V/Line change into the Geelong line train at Werribee.
The same will work in reverse.
Williamstown seems to be condenmed to a shuttle service off-peak though with a couple of extra trains and drivers this could easily be worked through to the City stopping at Yararville, Footscray and North Melbourne on a limited express pattern to match the suggested Werribee operation.
The Laverton / Werribee / Geelong option has nine trains per hour, on a 20-minute repeating pattern, through the Southern Cross - Newport section while adding Williamstown trains to that on the present headway gives twelve per hour. The latter becomes quite a tight fit with trains offerring varied stopping patterns but nine per hour should fit comfortably within existing signalling and single-line operations.
My Annual Christmas Quiz is HERE
Ferroequinologist. BA Hons (Honourable Bachelor of Aquatarts )
The wise yet mysterious Sir Gwiwer Greybeard |
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drwaddles
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:20 pm
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What's the point of providing hourly super-expresses?
I direct you to the Gradient Effect, Gwiwer.
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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