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thadocta
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Apr 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 1, 2009
Location: Katoomba
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:38 am
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| narf120 wrote: | | one route which never gets a mention, but would be a logical extention, would be to extend route 59 Airport West to the airport. We are comming up for another round of tram fleet replacement, another order of D3 (length equilivant) type trams with case racks, could provide a suitable service, and a 10 min frequency would work fine. |
You are dreaming! Who in their right mind would use a tram from Melbourne airport to the CBD? Imagine it, you have just come off a 14 hour flight from LAX or a 23 hour flight from LHR, spent an hour or so going through immigration and then customs, and you are on a tram battling its way along Mount Alexander Rd in the morning peak, taking well over an hour, wedged in with a bunch of commuters, and you call this a "suitable service"? When a taxi or Skybus can get you there in half the time with greater comfort?
Obviously you are not a regular traveller. (And before anyone points to LHR and the tube, which is similar, I have used it - once (never again) and will opt for Heathrow Express every time).
Dave
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Heihachi_73
Deputy Commissioner
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Ringwood Stopping all stations except East Richmond
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Kerpal
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Jul 17, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Waiting for an express that'll never come ...
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:43 am
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| thadocta wrote: |
You are dreaming! Who in their right mind would use a tram from Melbourne airport to the CBD? |
No-one. Airport workers from the Northern suburbs might use such a service though!
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Natronomonas
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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| Natronomonas |
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:08 am
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If the tram connected to a nearby station, and both tram and train operated at reasonable frequency, you might get some pax using that service. However, transfers with baggage wouldn't be that great.
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mjja
Sir Nigel Gresley
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Last Visited: Jan 7, 2009
Location: Mount Waverley, Melbourne
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| mjja |
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:54 am
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| SteamtoStay wrote: | | I can't remember though - should it be 80% or 90% of trains in service at any given time? |
85% is what I read in relation to the Sprinters.
Happy Gunzelling and remember, "Go by rail!"
Michael Angelico
President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
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SteamtoStay
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
Location: Behind you!
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:57 pm
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| Heihachi_73 wrote: | | SteamtoStay wrote: | | Got all that included already. I have also organised the four types of trains (excluding Hitachis) by route suitability, based on route length. So runs of <30km are generally allocated X'Traps and Alstom Comengs, and routes >30km are granted Siemens and EDI Comengs. (Yes, allowing for the newer trains' restrictions!) |
Hate to say it, but as of 2008 there's only three types of trains... |
Nope. Southside Comengs have more seats that Northside Comengs, so from an allocation point of view they're two different trains. Difference is 20 people to a six-car set.
Happy Chanukah! 
David S.
*Vice President, Smart Passengers Inc
(My opinions are my own unless specifically stated.)
*Holder of Cert I, Transport & Logistics
*Bogie Winner 2008 - "Best Contribution to Signalling and Infrastructure"
*Youngest person in 20 years to author four Connex Circulars
*Youngest person ever to sit at the control desk in METROL (I think)
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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 31, 2008
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| Somebody in the WWW |
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:36 pm
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| SteamtoStay wrote: | | Difference is 20 people to a six-car set. |
That's a negligible difference - why on earth would you split them into two separate fleets so some services can carry 20 more people!?
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Nexas
The Ghost of George Stephenson
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Last Visited: Nov 26, 2008
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:50 pm
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| SteamtoStay wrote: | | Heihachi_73 wrote: | | SteamtoStay wrote: | | Got all that included already. I have also organised the four types of trains (excluding Hitachis) by route suitability, based on route length. So runs of <30km are generally allocated X'Traps and Alstom Comengs, and routes >30km are granted Siemens and EDI Comengs. (Yes, allowing for the newer trains' restrictions!) |
Hate to say it, but as of 2008 there's only three types of trains... |
Nope. Southside Comengs have more seats that Northside Comengs, so from an allocation point of view they're two different trains. Difference is 20 people to a six-car set. |
Allocation wise within Connex, a South Comeng and a North Comeng are the same and are allocated and scheduled simply as "Comengs"
Views expressed by me are strictly my own, not of my friends, employer, or anyone else, unless otherwise stated.
*Back at RP for a limited time only*
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thadocta
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Apr 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 1, 2009
Location: Katoomba
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:05 am
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| Kerpal wrote: | | thadocta wrote: |
You are dreaming! Who in their right mind would use a tram from Melbourne airport to the CBD? |
No-one. Airport workers from the Northern suburbs might use such a service though! |
BUT - the original reference (to which I was responding) was to a tram, fitted with luggage facilities. Not much help to airport workers.
| Quote: | | If the tram connected to a nearby station, and both tram and train operated at reasonable frequency, you might get some pax using that service. However, transfers with baggage wouldn't be that great. |
Again, I reiterate that, if coming off a long flight, you don't want to go changing modes. I would get a cab anyday to a Melbourne CBD hotel, rather than Skybus, and changing to a shuttle. If I have just come through immigration, baggage reclaim and the customs hall, the LAST thing I want to do is do a two-stage transfer to my hotel when a one-stage transfer is available. Using trams, you make it a three-stage or four-stage transfer, and I am sorry, but I will be laughing at you from my hotel room.
Dave
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Natronomonas
Train Controller
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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| Natronomonas |
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:38 am
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I agree a direct service would be best. However, for locals a transfer might be acceptable and allow a cheaper capital cost for construction. I do some flying with only carry-on leaving straight from work, and in those cases a transfer would also be ok.
The service as described would really be more for airport workers and 'light' passengers... I can't imagine a family with 6 suitcases on a tram, but there's still Skybus, after all (or taxi).
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Speed
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Mar 19, 2007
Last Visited: Jan 9, 2009
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| Speed |
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:10 am
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The statement that nobody "in their right mind" would use public transport to get to or from the airport is quite strong.
While there is accommodation on Spencer Street and housing in the Docklands, that can't account for every passenger who uses Skybus. They must be changing nodes.
If you're coming from the northern suburbs, the idea of catching a train into the city to catch a bus much the same way that you came (or vice versa) would seem ridiculous. On the other hand, I've heard people who live in those areas complaining that taxi drivers have faked mechanical failures because they're not willing to take passengers between the airport and destinations so close by. People in that situation would appreciate having a public transport option that followed a more direct route than the one via Spencer Street.
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thadocta
Chief Train Controller
Joined: Apr 18, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 1, 2009
Location: Katoomba
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:37 pm
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| Speed wrote: | | The statement that nobody "in their right mind" would use public transport to get to or from the airport is quite strong. |
I never said that nobody would use public transport, just that nobody would use the route 59 Airport tram, clattering its way along Elizabeth St, Flemington Road, Mt Alexander Rd, through Moonee Ponds, Essendon, Niddrie, and so on, all the way from the CBD to the domestic or international terminals.
Those who are price sensitive would be using the Sunbury-Broadmeadows or Sunbury-Essendon buses using their Metcards, and these buses do not get a lot of airport traffic, with the majority of airport users using Skybus, taxis or other transfer modes.
Dave
Last edited by thadocta on Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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drwaddles
In need of a breath mint
Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Last Visited: Dec 11, 2008
Location: Lifting the A-League trophy!
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| drwaddles |
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:52 pm
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That's because their service levels are utterly pathetic.
People who talk out their asre usually have bad breath.
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Edith
Chief Commissioner
Joined: Nov 11, 2004
Last Visited: Jan 8, 2009
Location: Line 1 from Porte de Vincennes bound for Bastille station
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| Edith |
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:02 pm
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| thadocta wrote: | | Speed wrote: | | The statement that nobody "in their right mind" would use public transport to get to or from the airport is quite strong. |
I never said that nobody would use public transport, just that nobody would use the route 59 Airport tram, clattering its way along Elizabeth St, Royal Parade, Mt Alexander Rd, through Moonee Ponds, Essendon, Niddrie, and so on, all the way from the CBD to the domestic or international terminals.
Those who are price sensitive would be using the Sunbury-Broadmeadows or Sunbury-Essendon buses using their Metcards, and these buses do not get a lot of airport traffic, with the majority of airport users using Skybus, taxis or other transfer modes.
Dave |
Airline travellers are not just international and not all tourists with a lot of luggage. I think Melbourne might have more business than tourist passengers and quite a lot of interstate passengers.
My preference is to use PT to the City when I fly into a foreign place. Coming home to Melbourne, as a Northern suburbs person, I would prefer not to have to go into the City on a Skybus, past my house, only to catch a train out again. A taxi might be about the same price, but taxi drivers do not like to do a 'short' trip. I have been abused by a driver for wasting his time on this journey.
Airport workers might appreciate a #59 tram extension, as many work in Airport West. The local buses to the airport are at strange times and not suitable for workers and passengers. I would be happy to take a #59 tram to Esendon or Moonee Ponds and change to a bus or tram there.
Dreams are not something to wait for
They are something to work for
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Somebody in the WWW
Comeng Gunzel
Joined: Oct 08, 2004
Last Visited: Dec 31, 2008
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| Somebody in the WWW |
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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:04 pm
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| drwaddles wrote: | | That's because their service levels are utterly pathetic. |
Indeed - with a capital P 
Here's how L2 on SSC described the service levels:
| L2 @ http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=25872154&highlight=Airport#post25872154 wrote: | I had a look at what public transport would be available from Tullamarine if arriving in the late morning (other than Skybus). Ideally you would expect a decent service provided for airport workers and people travelling from nearby suburbs - Sydney's 400 bus gets a decent crowd of workers.
First was route 500 to Broady via Gladstone Park. Would miss one at 10:50am, next one not until 12:30pm. One goes to Sunbury at 11:30am, which arrives there at 11:55am. Train to Bendigo departs 11:49am, train to Melbourne departs 11:51am.
Next was the back-up, route 478/479 to Essendon via Airport West. 478 goes at 9:20am, BIG gap until 2:30pm. 479 goes at 10:05am, then nothing until 2:15pm.
What kind of joke service is this? |
Before you even think about extending the 59 tram from Airport West, provide a bus service that doesn't have four-hour gaps.
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