Northern Sydney Freight Corridor (NSFC)

 
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
As requested Wink Given the long path the SSFL had to getting the first sod turned this thread should go for some time. Rolling Eyes

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  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Notice that this gets referred to as a freight line  Confused

Unlike the SSFL this is not a single project to build a new rail line. At this stage it is a series of engineering works that will separate freight and passenger traffic at various points. This is probably why it is referred to as “corridor” works.

Also it’s a NSW (TIDC) programme subject to Federal funding. It's not an ARTC job. ARTC is funding and constructing the SSFL itself.
  dougg Beginner

Given that they are talking about throwing billions at the NSFC why not think about a new line via St Albans and Wollombi. It would probably need some long tunnels, could be built to 6.5 metre height clearance (does that rule out 25 kV electrification?). Double track, straight alignment but steeper grades than steam locomotives liked ...

Then they could save big bucks in the long term compared to expanding the capacity of the short north in a piecemeal fashion.

"Tell him his dreaming..."
  8041 Junior Train Controller

Given that they are talking about throwing billions at the NSFC why not think about a new line via St Albans and Wollombi. It would probably need some long tunnels, could be built to 6.5 metre height clearance (does that rule out 25 kV electrification?). Double track, straight alignment but steeper grades than steam locomotives liked ...

Then they could save big bucks in the long term compared to expanding the capacity of the short north in a piecemeal fashion.

"Tell him his dreaming..."
"dougg"


I think that is a much more sensible idea than the inland line that bypasses Sydney. If it were to start at Macarthur and swing around the back of the metro area, under Penrith and on to Richmond then (and this will be the hard bit) over the Hawkesbury and through some of the valleys around mangrove mountain and then on to wyong.  Build the maldon to dombarton line and extend the ssfl to it and then the freights can run free of cityfail from Port kembla all the way to Wyong. The line in the metro area could be built to allow for future pass tracks as well.

Dreams maybe but in a world where benefits were not only assessed according to profitability and some consideration was given to actual people as opposed to just money, then projects like this would be seen as nation building and gifts to future generations.  Like the good old days Smile
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Unfortunately few (if any) Aus rail projects kick off with $$$$ Billions.  Rolling Eyes

The reality is its all about incremental improvements. Hopefully the $800m+ funding can be released and some NSFC projects can commence.

I don’t think you’ll get the Cowan Bank tunnels for awhile though.  Wink
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
What happened to the proposal to build a bypass line from Fassifern via Hexham to Stroud Road? That would be ideal for reducing Sydney to Brisbane train times.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
What happened to the proposal to build a bypass line from Fassifern via Hexham to Stroud Road? That would be ideal for reducing Sydney to Brisbane train times.
"GeoffreyHansen"


The overall impact of such a deviation is marginal unless you can get freighties into and out of Sydney efficiently.

As for its status  – it’s another proposal which didn’t fly because the federal government of the day didn’t cough up the $$$$ for.  Mad

Also consider that  (like many deviations) it would have long and difficult gestation. For these reasons ARTC (rightly) chooses to spread its limited funds thinly. Once that is done they can go after deviations.

ARTC IA strategy 2008-2024 mentions for 2014 Brisbane - Sydney 3 deviations $441 m but doesn’t elaborate.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Given that they are talking about throwing billions at the NSFC why not think about a new line via St Albans and Wollombi. It would probably need some long tunnels, could be built to 6.5 metre height clearance (does that rule out 25 kV electrification?). Double track, straight alignment but steeper grades than steam locomotives liked ...

Then they could save big bucks in the long term compared to expanding the capacity of the short north in a piecemeal fashion.

"Tell him his dreaming..."
"dougg"


India is building its new freight lines with 25kV and 6.5m clearances for Double Stacking. The only minor problem is the stability of the pantographs.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Given that they are talking about throwing billions at the NSFC why not think about a new line via St Albans and Wollombi. It would probably need some long tunnels, could be built to 6.5 metre height clearance (does that rule out 25 kV electrification?). Double track, straight alignment but steeper grades than steam locomotives liked ...

Then they could save big bucks in the long term compared to expanding the capacity of the short north in a piecemeal fashion.

"Tell him his dreaming..."
"dougg"


India is building its new freight lines with 25kV and 6.5m clearances for Double Stacking. The only minor problem is the stability of the pantographs.
"awsgc24"


From what I've seen ARTC hasn't the remote intention of introducing double stacking Sydney-Brisbane - no need to cater for it on the NSFC then  Wink

I assume the new sections of track will be electrified to cater for cityrail services  Question
  arctic Deputy Commissioner

Location: Zurich
Found this in the local Central Coast Paper:

Rail chief's plan
BY PAUL CALLAGHAN

29/01/2009 1:00:00 AM
THE Central Coast's long-suffering rail commuters have a friend in high places in the chief executive of Australian Rail Track Corporation (ARTC) David Marchant.

Mr Marchant manages a network of interstate rail from Brisbane to Perth, but during a recent speech at a National Press Club lunch he said the Sydney to Gosford missing freight link is the highest priority rail construction job awaiting a start.

Mr Marchant said a dedicated freight line from Sydney to Gosford would free up 100 passenger trips to or from Sydney daily.

He said $2 billion and 10 years of construction would be needed to complete the freight line between Strathfield and Newcastle.

More passenger train services were needed for the Central Coast because of its growing population and rail congestion issues, he said.

ARTC recently submitted the Northern Sydney Rail Freight Corridor's construction to Infrastructure Australia which has named the project in its list of nationally important jobs waiting for completion at a cost of $4.075 billion.

The head of NSW Business Chamber Central Coast Mary Doherty said the provision of the dedicated freight line was vital to this region's growth sustainability.'

Not only would it improve the passenger rail service but it take considerable pressure off the F3 freeway, she said.

Central Coast Commuters Association president Kevin Parish said the building of the northern freight line would be a win-win situation for this region.

"Its completion would be absolutely fantastic," he said.

The Federal Government has already committed $800 million to the project and now it's simply a matter of when the work will start, he said.

Federal Member for Robertson Belinda Neal has continued her support for a dedicated freight rail line between North Strathfield and Newcastle to be priority listed by Infrastructure Australia.

"A dedicated freight rail line for the Central Coast was one of my pre-election commitments," she said.

"The Government has honoured this commitment by providing $840 million to get the freight line started."


http://www.sunweekly.com.au/news/local/news/general/rail-chiefs-plan/1419178.aspx
  BDA Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
I'm guessing that the Fasi Hexam , or Dungog if the deluxe option got the nod , link is on the backburner because getting into or out of the Sydney metrop is the greatest challenge ATM .

For anything thats headed north and not needing to stop at Broadmeadow/Pt Waratah/Kooragang Island , passing through newcastle is just plain stupid .
It's indirect takes paths that other services could use that do need to stop at the above mentioned locations .

To run a single line with suitable passing/standing facilities from around Fassifern to Dungog would save multiple HOURS , if it was then possible to get suitable paths from there to the metrop its not unreasonable to expect to reliably carve ~ 3 + hours off the running times between Sydney and Dungog .
Makes me wonder if the Sydney Grafton leg could be as short as 12 hours .

Interstate road freight between Sydney and Brisbane doesn't go anywhere near Newcastle so with money spent on rail corridors why should rail freight ?
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
A bit off topic but a train driver I was speaking to today told me that the freight line to Enfield in Sydney is quite slow due to the tight curves and I think due to the short distances between signals.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
A bit off topic but a train driver I was speaking to today told me that the freight line to Enfield in Sydney is quite slow due to the tight curves and I think due to the short distances between signals.
"GeoffreyHansen"


Between Liverpool and Macarthur (and perhaps on other lines), freight trains are limited to 80km/h because braking distances for freight would exceed the spacing of the signals from G/Y to G/R to R/R which are relatively close together for passenger train headway purposes.

The line could be resignalled with the "new" Preliminary Mediums (Green over Flashing Yellow), which would allow freight train speeds to be raised again subject to gradient issues. North of Epping ECRL Junction there are now several G/FY is a row on the 1 in 40 grades. Similarly from Sutherland downhill to Como Bridge.
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
Try Liverpool to Glenfield.
  FieldShunt74 Chief Commissioner

From what I've seen ARTC hasn't the remote intention of introducing double stacking Sydney-Brisbane - no need to cater for it on the NSFC then
"cootanee"


In one of their more recent epistles, ARTC talk about the prospect of double stacking Melbourne - Sydney. I think that ties in with their desire to set up shop with a new yard on army land out near Holsworthy. They think they could possibly get double stacked trains that far into Sydney from the south, but they don't fancy going north or west or into the middle of the city with them.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
Federal Minister for Infrastructure, Transport,
Regional Development and Local Government 5/02/2009

"...I can also announced two further measures that will improve the operation of Sydney's rail network:

The allocation of $15 million to accelerate planning and design work on the Government's $840 million investment in a new dedicated freight line between North Strathfield to Gosford; and
Work will start in March/April on a $27.2 million upgrade to the Port Botany Rail Line including track rearrangement, and circuiting and signalling work.
The northern Sydney project will provide access for four freight trains an hour for 22 hours a day, while the Port Botany upgrade will increase the average train load to the Port from 40 to 60 containers."

http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov.au/aa/releases/2009/February/AA014_2009.htm
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Given that they are talking about throwing billions at the NSFC why not think about a new line via St Albans and Wollombi. It would probably need some long tunnels, could be built to 6.5 metre height clearance (does that rule out 25 kV electrification?). Double track, straight alignment but steeper grades than steam locomotives liked ...

Then they could save big bucks in the long term compared to expanding the capacity of the short north in a piecemeal fashion.

"Tell him his dreaming..."
"dougg"


A double stack train can be converted to two single stack trains by having a yard with two sidings, one for the double stack train, and the other for an empty train. Trains unload the second story container from the double stack train onto the empty train, which leave a few minutes apart. The speed of the reloading depends on the number of cranes that operate in parallel, which can be a large number if the cranes can be automated.

Given that container traffic in Australia will never be huge compared to Europe and America, this conversion system may be all that can be affordable and practical. Sites for double stack convertor hubs would include Parkes.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
"Someone may have already said something about this but"

Reading In Railway Digest there Is a scope of the planed works and the fifth component Is to Include a passenger line tunnel from Mount Kuring-gai all the way to Hawesbury River

I was going to plot this alinement In my new Sydway directory when I found out that the tunnel was to span many pages.
Is the tunnel likely to be that long ?

The plan was to rid the existing line of passenger trains between Mount Kuring-gai and Hawskesbury River and use It exclusively by freight trains

What would this doozy of a tunnel cost to build ?
  luznug Banned

Location: Banned
try turning back one page and look at Arctic's post  (around 4 Billion)
And you thought i had lazy eyes Shocked
  Grantham Minister for Railways

Location: I'm with stupid!
Really you'd be best off running diesel hauled freighters through the new tunnels and keeping the passenger trains on the existing lines. Double stacking is completely unnecessary if you're going to have a second train already dedicated to your extra containers.

M
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
try turning back one page and look at Arctic's post  (around 4 Billion)
And you thought i had lazy eyes Shocked
"luznug"


Where It say about the tunnel I'm talking about ?
I still can't find It ?

A link would be good.
  awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney
Really you'd be best off running diesel hauled freighters through the new tunnels and keeping the passenger trains on the existing lines. Double stacking is completely unnecessary if you're going to have a second train already dedicated to your extra containers.

M
"Grantham"


The new tunnels will have gentle curves for higher speed operation of passenger trains.  Freight trains will be happy to use the sharp curves of the existing line now that they do not have to share with passenger trains and be subject to a curfew.

Also, there will be no fume problem operating diesel freight trains in the almost tunnel-free existing line.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Is there any chance that the bridge on the original alinement (of the original bridge) over the Hawkesbury River could be reinstated (with a refurbishment of the old piers/pylons and tunnel)

One of the Northern piers failed didn't It ? forcing the replacement of the bridge with the current one ?
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
Is there any chance that the bridge on the original alinement (of the original bridge) over the Hawkesbury River could be reinstated (with a refurbishment of the old piers/pylons and tunnel)

One of the Northern piers failed didn't It ? forcing the replacement of the bridge with the current one ?
"Nightfire"


Zero chance all the piers need replacing.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Is there any chance that the bridge on the original alinement (of the original bridge) over the Hawkesbury River could be reinstated (with a refurbishment of the old piers/pylons and tunnel)

One of the Northern piers failed didn't It ? forcing the replacement of the bridge with the current one ?
"Nightfire"


Zero chance all the piers need replacing.
"42101"


Ok thanks 8)

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