tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
Why on earth would you keep a Metcard loose in your pocket? I keep mine in my wallet.... I have had my current barrier pass for 14 months now and the magstripe still works fine. There is next to no printing anywhere on the ticket, but it still works! (I will admit, this is a plastic type metcard, like the yearlies, rather than paper, but pre-railway employment I used paper Monthlies and never had a faulty ticket ever. Except once, when the barrier spat the card out folded in half... i have NO idea how that one happened...)

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  Speed Minister for Railways

Why on earth would you keep a Metcard loose in your pocket?
"tomohawk"
It means that you can get onto the platform faster to catch the train, out of the station faster and onto the bus faster than if you have to grope around in your wallet. If your wallet is in your handbag, which is in your shopping bag, that could save a lot of time groping around.

If you lose your wallet, you still have a ticket home.

I have had days when I was jumping on and off Metlink services where I did find having a Metcard within immediate reach convenient.
  RATLSNAKE Chief Train Controller


Well there are tens of thousands of people using it in regional Victoria, but obviously no one cares about them!   Shocked
"Revenue"


I'm from Geelong, and my father was driving the buses with myki onboard, and the majority of his daily regulars only had bad things to say for the most part, with the rest not caring either way.
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I agree entirely with Tomohawk; keep the thing in your wallet. My wallet certainly has a convenient slot for the card, and I doubt if it's the only one that does.

If you can't grab your wallet while you're walking to the barrier, use the Metcard, and then place it back in the wallet whilst still moving, you have a serious coordination problem.
  duttonbay Minister for Railways

If you can't grab your wallet while you're walking to the barrier, use the Metcard, and then place it back in the wallet whilst still moving, you have a serious coordination problem.
"Valvegear"

Can be a bit tricky if you are carrying something, mind you, as then you only have one hand with which to get your wallet, and then extract the card.  Can you give us a demonstration of how to do that one handed, without breaking stride? Something on youtube would be good...  Smile
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

If only there was some sort of durable card that was about to be introduced. Something a little more robust. Something that you didn't need to take out of your wallet in most cases....
  Xoanon Locomotive Fireman

Crikey I'm getting antsy waiting for the starter's flag to drop on Myki. Can't you give us a teeny hint Revenue?
  Xoanon Locomotive Fireman

Something that you didn't need to take out of your wallet in most cases....
"Revenue"


Speaking of which, is the chip on credit cards something that might clash with Myki? Thinking I might have to rearrange the wallet so they're in distinctly different places...
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
The chip on the credit cards won't affect Myki at all. The only credit cards that will pose problems are the Commonwealth bank cards with the "PayPass" functionality (which are RFID). Just put the Myki on one fold of the wallet, and the PayPass card on the other side, and open the flip so only half the wallet is near the reader. No big issue at all. My uni student card used to clash with my SmartRider in Perth, but I just separated them and the problem was solved.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Speaking of which, is the chip on credit cards something that might clash with Myki? Thinking I might have to rearrange the wallet so they're in distinctly different places...


Personally I haven't experienced it. I gather there might be some cards that cause a 'multiple cards' response from the scanners. If enough people have problems with a particular card type, then presumably we could alter the software to prevent this. Not sure, just supposing, but seems logical. I'm not expecting this to be a major issue.

In regard to launch, you'll have to wait and see.

I'm from Geelong, and my father was driving the buses with myki onboard, and the majority of his daily regulars only had bad things to say for the most part, with the rest not caring either way.


And here's where things get interesting. In Geelong you can purchase a 2-hour ticket for $1.00 or us a myki for 90 cents (and I'm talking about concession users here because they are 90% of the market in Geelong who purchase tickets - connecting V/Line people don't have myki yet as they just show their V/Line ticket).

Ten cents isn't really a lot - so if someone wanted to avoid having a myki then could by purchasing short term tickets. More than half of trips are now done on myki - and that's without passes being available online until recently and with retail agents yet to be fully rolled out. To get most people onto myki with only limited off system sales channels and without pass is a very good result. I'm sure there are people complaining, but I'm also sure that people don't praise ticketing systems on a general basis. Expect a range of reactions in Melbourne.

Also people don't complain when you solve problems. For example, pre-Metcard we used to catch a lot of people without tickets who didn't realise that their monthly expired the day before, or didn't realise they had left it in their other bag. Why? Because you didn't need to validate prior to travel. Metcard eliminated this problem - every customer has the ability (and a requirement) to make sure their ticket was valid prior to travel. Myki will solve a range of other issues. People with myki money who don't realise that Box Hill is in Zone 2 will pay the correct fare anyway. People won't have to miss that train by lining up to purchase a ticket. Customers can reload using credit cards at unstaffed stations (remember your PIN!). All these things will reduce problems (but you don't get thanked for those).
  AussieOzi Station Master

I'm currently on concession (low income) but sometimes during the part yearly i may have the concession removed due to earning too much in that period..

From what I understand Myki has two seperate cards, concession and full fare... that are seperate designs.... Will it be possible to change the cards over if things change, back to full fare (and back to concession again), and if so, will there be a charge involved for doing this??

Thanks!
  AzN_dj Chief Commissioner

Location: Along route 69
Speaking of which, is the chip on credit cards something that might clash with Myki? Thinking I might have to rearrange the wallet so they're in distinctly different places...


Personally I haven't experienced it. I gather there might be some cards that cause a 'multiple cards' response from the scanners. If enough people have problems with a particular card type, then presumably we could alter the software to prevent this. Not sure, just supposing, but seems logical. I'm not expecting this to be a major issue.
"Revenue"

It clashes with PayPass in all Commonwealth Credit cards. How soon do you think you could get a fix for this?

And I'm thinking for discount/incentives, have a few days advertised where Child tickets are valid for free travel between lets say.... 1430 and 1630 to discourage parents from picking their kids up from school? *hint hint*.
  Lance-Fieldline Train Controller

Location: Stalybridge Station Buffet
Hi there

How about a free day, the next business day after the trains go pear shaped, It could be line specific : ie a broken rail at Bayswater would trigger free travel for passengers boarding Belgrave to Heathmont for their first trip of the day, say Ferntree Gully to Parliament would be free, all other travel that day at normal fare.

Or even Metro-wide if things really went bad.

Or even on-time or it's free, does Myki know if trains are on time?

Just ideas

Cheers
Lance
  Tremere Train Controller

Hi there

How about a free day, the next business day after the trains go pear shaped, It could be line specific : ie a broken rail at Bayswater would trigger free travel for passengers boarding Belgrave to Heathmont for their first trip of the day, say Ferntree Gully to Parliament would be free, all other travel that day at normal fare.
"Lance-Fieldline"

It can do that, by the fare refund mechanism on proper cards. At the speed the 17,000 devices have been hit with updates I doubt programming it in would be an option.
To do what you say would only work at zonal level of course.

That said, will Metro/YT be using said refund mechanism?

Anyway, anyone in Geelong notice the website transaction list is updating really fast now  Very Happy (allowing for the buses to get back to the depot of course, but far cry from the >24-48hrs I used to see)

But the several hundred million dollar question is: Have they fixed the backend problems in Melbourne yet?  Confused
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
I'm currently on concession (low income) but sometimes during the part yearly i may have the concession removed due to earning too much in that period.
"AussieOzi"

Centrelink tells you to destroy the card, but there is no way for an AO to determine that the folded bit of cardboard in your possession is valid or not - the card are so basic they can't easily verify that you made it at home either.
  fullofrubbish Assistant Commissioner

Location: Brunswick
I'm currently on concession (low income) but sometimes during the part yearly i may have the concession removed due to earning too much in that period.
"AussieOzi"

Centrelink tells you to destroy the card, but there is no way for an AO to determine that the folded bit of cardboard in your possession is valid or not - the card are so basic they can't easily verify that you made it at home either.
"wongm"


I had the fortune of centrelink sending me a new healthcare only a week or 2 before I lost my actual centrelink entitlements. Needless to say it still helped me travel concession for another 5 months  Twisted Evil
  444Desiro Station Staff

Further to my last post....what special offers would you consider doing? Suggestions welcomed, but remember they should target patronage growth at off-peak times where there is capacity available.

For one off special offers, please assume they would be delivered by the back end (eg. if you do X, then we'll refund Y). This avoids developing new software for the front end which should be reserved for large scale benefits, rather than more bespoke offers.
"Revenue"


How about a scheme to encourage people to use certain stations, i.e. a station with larger amounts of spare parking?

For example - when South Morang opens up with plenty of new parking, encourage people to park there by discounting their fare if they touch on and off there during the day?

OR - reward people who get the bus to the station. i.e - if a person touches on and off a bus before boarding a train to the city in the morning, discount their fare. Good reward for not taking up a parking spot!

How these schemes would work for a Myki Pass (which I shall be having) I don't know...
  AussieOzi Station Master

I'm currently on concession (low income) but sometimes during the part yearly i may have the concession removed due to earning too much in that period.
"AussieOzi"

Centrelink tells you to destroy the card, but there is no way for an AO to determine that the folded bit of cardboard in your possession is valid or not - the card are so basic they can't easily verify that you made it at home either.
"wongm"


True, but when the official card becomes expired, will i need to purchase a brand new full fare myki, and set up a brand new account, go through all that hullabaloo or will there be some protocols for exchange between full fare and concession? Same goes for if I become eligible again some months down the track..  

I think its a rather interesting point that needs clarification with how it will be handled under myki..

Metcard is just so easy in this regard. Would be a shame if i had to resort to buying single ticket mykis. Would be a huge disappointment..

I'm sure many students and people doing casual work would have similar issues where pay can fluctuate week to week.
  Mark86 Station Master


True, but when the official card becomes expired, will i need to purchase a brand new full fare myki, and set up a brand new account, go through all that hullabaloo or will there be some protocols for exchange between full fare and concession? Same goes for if I become eligible again some months down the track..  

I think its a rather interesting point that needs clarification with how it will be handled under myki..

Metcard is just so easy in this regard. Would be a shame if i had to resort to buying single ticket mykis. Would be a huge disappointment..

I'm sure many students and people doing casual work would have similar issues where pay can fluctuate week to week.
"AussieOzi"


If I may make a suggestion: when myki is introduced to Melbourne buy both a concession and a full fare myki. You get both for free and can register them under the same account. Then you can switch between them as your concession situation dictates. Pretty simple.
  dbowen Assistant Commissioner

Location: Melbourne
True, but when the official card becomes expired, will i need to purchase a brand new full fare myki, and set up a brand new account, go through all that hullabaloo or will there be some protocols for exchange between full fare and concession? Same goes for if I become eligible again some months down the track..
"AussieOzi"


The F+T manual says you can switch for free.


Daniel
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
I'm fairly surprised that there are separate cards, and it's not just a case of encoding "Concession type X" onto the card electronically. Sure, they'd all look the same, but the handheld scanner would verify the type of card. That's how it works with SmartRider. All cards are identical, and the concession system is all done electronically. When my uni enrollment finished, for example, my card immediately lost the Tertiary Student concession, and it reverted to charging full fare automatically, as the concession system is electronically linked with the University enrollment system.

So, the question here is, can a "Full fare" myki be encoded with "concession" and vice versa, so that people in this situation don't have to physically replace their card?
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
One would expect that in this day and age that with the MYKI card, one card would fit all.
Having at least 2 types, full and consession simply creates more work somewhere in the system; whereas with 1 card, whether one is full or concession would be held by 'the system'. And once scanned by a reader, the relevant info is displayed ie ticket type and whether full or concession. The system is already there to display ticket type, so what is so hard with displaying whether the ticket is full or concession as well.
  MelbourneCity Chief Commissioner

I'm currently on concession (low income) but sometimes during the part yearly i may have the concession removed due to earning too much in that period.
"AussieOzi"

Centrelink tells you to destroy the card, but there is no way for an AO to determine that the folded bit of cardboard in your possession is valid or not - the card are so basic they can't easily verify that you made it at home either.
"wongm"


That will soon change with the Federal Government planning on merging Medicare, Centrelink into one new body under the control of the Minister for Human Services or whatever the appropriate portfolio is. Note - Medicare will no longer be under the control of the Health Minister. Expect a smart card to replace existing in the coming years.

I really like the suggestion made re: free student travel from 2:30 to 4:30pm. Really good. Spring Street should look in to it - would not only give good press to MyKi but get some traffic off the roads!
  AussieOzi Station Master

One would expect that in this day and age that with the MYKI card, one card would fit all.
Having at least 2 types, full and consession simply creates more work somewhere in the system; whereas with 1 card, whether one is full or concession would be held by 'the system'. And once scanned by a reader, the relevant info is displayed ie ticket type and whether full or concession. The system is already there to display ticket type, so what is so hard with displaying whether the ticket is full or concession as well.
"xxxxlbear"


Thats what i would have expected too. I guess if I can register for two cards while its free, and **hopefully** link them to one account all will be just dandy.. even switching is fine with me, as long as its reasonably simple online or such and not something where you have to fill out 30 pages like centerlink makes you do for anything Twisted Evil ... hopefully there will be no red tape preventing this....

I read up on the F&T manual...where it says "Customers may surrender their old myki at a staffed railway station or the MetShop and receive a new myki of the appropriate type at no charge. They may also complete a refund and reimbursement form to receive a cheque for the remaining value on their old myki, and no administration fee is payable for this."

Does this indicate that the balance from old myki to new myki of a different type of card will not be electronically tranferred on the spot??
Abit further on it says replacement mykis of the same type will have balance transferred in 'a few days'..... Rolling Eyes

The points about multiple cards made me think of another possibility...... i don't know about everyone else here, but my wallet bulges with all the plastic cards i carry. Wouldn't it be great if all government based cards could be grouped together into one....... ie. drivers licence, medicare, myki... Is this possible in the future or too much expense / too foward thinking for the government????.....
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Revenue - how will the system handle the overnight services between Melbourne and Mildura? What will happen with a touch-off at 0700 when the previous touch-on was around 2200 the night before, and how will it affect daily caps?
"thadocta"


*bump*

Dave

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