More services to Sale

 
  beanzs27 Assistant Commissioner

on Sundays the middle train terminateds at sale instead of Bairnsdale, why isn't there more services that  terminate at Sale in addition to the Bairnsdale services.

have only been to sale once  but it appeared to be a reasoanble sized city to warrant more services. i haven't been to Bairnsdale so i can't comment on more services there but having been to Maffra and stratford there is enough  of a population for more services to start at Sale instead of Traralgon

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  tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
The only reason why that one stops at Sale, and does not go all the way to Bairnsdale, is the fact that Sprinters and V/locities can not get around the curved bridge at Stradford.

Therefore, they can not go any further than Sale.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
Bairnsdale is larger than Sale and is also the railhead for the popular destination of Lakes Entrance.

The service of three trains (two on Sundays) is on par with other regional cities of similar size and a similar distance from Melbourne.

Whether it could or could not support any more is academic since there is no rolling stock available to provide additional services.

As Jim says sprinter and VL units are prohibited from crossing Stratford bridge which is a problem that must be addressed sooner or later.  Locos and N-set coaches won't be around for ever.

The reason for the mid-day Sunday train terminating at Sale is that it is formed of a VL set and as there is reduced demand on that day it is perhaps sufficient that two trains run to Bairnsdale.

The hourly service between Melbourne and Traralgon is worked by Sprinter and VL units, mostly the latter, and cannot work to Bairnsdale, added to which there is very restricted single track track capacity beyond Traralgon.

The most frequent service covers the busiest part of the route which is as it should be.
  Kooka Train Controller

The only reason why that one stops at Sale, and does not go all the way to Bairnsdale, is the fact that Sprinters and V/locities can not get around the curved bridge at Stradford.

Therefore, they can not go any further than Sale.
"tranzitjim"


V/Locities terminate at Traralgon for memory. But why can't they run to Sale becuase Traralgon - Sale doesn't have the Avon Bridge, at Stratford. Rosedale is between those to town's. Besides the Avon Bridge, I think it's due to the V/Locities don't have a guards car whereas an N Class running does.
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
The only reason why that one stops at Sale, and does not go all the way to Bairnsdale, is the fact that Sprinters and V/locities can not get around the curved bridge at Stradford.

Therefore, they can not go any further than Sale.
"tranzitjim"


V/Locities terminate at Traralgon for memory. But why can't they run to Sale becuase Traralgon - Sale doesn't have the Avon Bridge, at Stratford. Rosedale is between those to town's. Besides the Avon Bridge, I think it's due to the V/Locities don't have a guards car whereas an N Class running does.
"Kooka"


VLocities do run to Sale, each Sunday. 1025 down Sale / 1403 up Sacle are VLocity services. Typically 3 Car VLocity + 2 Car VLocity, with the 2 Car VLocity detaching at Traralgon on the down, and the 3 Car VLocity attaching to another 2 Car VLocity at Traralgon on the up.
  L2 Banned

Location: Banned
These kind of routes really should have more trains daily than the present 3, not like Swan Hill but the ones with more intermediate centres people travel between.

I wonder if anybody has ever actually taken a photo of the Vlocity between Traralgon and Sale, yet to see a shot.
  42101 Banned

Location: Banned
These kind of routes really should have more trains daily than the present 3, not like Swan Hill but the ones with more intermediate centres people travel between.

I wonder if anybody has ever actually taken a photo of the Vlocity between Traralgon and Sale, yet to see a shot.
"L2"


Hmmm yesterday you were stating you hated trains outside the metro area today your increasing the numbers of those trains.
L2


 Posted: 25 Jun 2010 20:57  
I live in Melbourne and never want to to go very far-away small towns and I don't care about the 4 people who want to travel from these towns and I think most people in the state are like me.

So I think they should not add services to Nhill, but they should run more electric trains to Lilydale instead.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
These kind of routes really should have more trains daily than the present 3


On what basis?  Is there a significant customer demand at times there are no trains?  

I would have thought that the present service is about right for the needs of the region, even allowing for the fact that it also makes onward connections to the Lakes,  Sapphire Coast and Canberra via the hills.

If you try to get much more past Traralgon you will need to cross trains somewhere as the line is single track.  Additional capacity might be needed including potentially a second platform at Sale.

These enhancements might come in time but with no rolling stock available for more trips at present this sort of project wouldn't even be on the backburner yet.
  Brendan03 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
Hmmm yesterday you were stating you hated trains outside the metro area today your increasing the numbers of those trains.
L2
"42101"


This user behaves like Somebody Who We know Was a regular user on here but has stopped posting recently, huh?
  712M Chief Commissioner

Bairnsdale is larger than Sale and is also the railhead for the popular destination of Lakes Entrance.

The service of three trains (two on Sundays) is on par with other regional cities of similar size and a similar distance from Melbourne.

Whether it could or could not support any more is academic since there is no rolling stock available to provide additional services.

As Jim says sprinter and VL units are prohibited from crossing Stratford bridge which is a problem that must be addressed sooner or later.  Locos and N-set coaches won't be around for ever.

The reason for the mid-day Sunday train terminating at Sale is that it is formed of a VL set and as there is reduced demand on that day it is perhaps sufficient that two trains run to Bairnsdale.

The hourly service between Melbourne and Traralgon is worked by Sprinter and VL units, mostly the latter, and cannot work to Bairnsdale, added to which there is very restricted single track track capacity beyond Traralgon.

The most frequent service covers the busiest part of the route which is as it should be.
"Gwiwer"


If you look at the Sunday timetable, stations between Traralgon and Nar Nar Goon get a two-hourly frequency with the 2 additional Bairnsdale services available to major stations. The Sale VLocity terminates at Sale due to the curve on the Avon River Bridge at Stratford as posted above, but if you wanted to extend it to Bairnsdale, then you would have to run the service by a N class + N set which takes nearly 2 and a half hours from Melbourne to Traralgon stopping all stations, which means passengers for Bairnsdale would be in for a 4 hour trip, and skipping smaller stations would give those stations a 4 hour gap between services.
  tardis142000 Chief Train Controller

Location: Sandhurst, Victoria
This user behaves like Somebody Who We know Was a regular user on here but has stopped posting recently, huh?
"Brendan03"


About as subtle as a sledgehammer with that hint there Brendan....
  L2 Banned

Location: Banned
which means passengers for Bairnsdale would be in for a 4 hour trip, and skipping smaller stations would give those stations a 4 hour gap between services.
"712M"

They already have to do that on the last up train on the night, which comes from Bairnsdale. Because Vline is so hopeless, the last train of the night from the Latrobe Valley is strangely early compared to every other line, and because it's the one coming from Bairnsdale it has to stop all stations to the suburban boundary at Pakistan Station.

I've been on that one a couple of times before, it's not that unbearable. Little to no passengers using those stations at that hour though.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
.......has to stop all stations to the suburban boundary at Pakistan Station.
 
"L2"


LaughingMwa ha ha ha!Clap Very funny....I like that..
  Brendan03 Chief Commissioner

Location: Sydney
This user behaves like Somebody Who We know Was a regular user on here but has stopped posting recently, huh?
"Brendan03"


About as subtle as a sledgehammer with that hint there Brendan....
"tardis142000"


Haha, Thanks alot Smile
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
Besides the Avon Bridge, I think it's due to the V/Locities don't have a guards car whereas an N Class running does.
"Kooka"

The conductor on a VLocities sits in one of the non-leading cabs - there is always at least one.
  blrich Beginner

Assuming there was enough rolling stock could trains (Sprinters and VLocity) pass each other at the Rosedale Station, conveniently about mid-way between Sale and Traralgon? And with two existing tracks I think (including a very dilapidated second platform).

I do not know numbers of passengers boarding trains in Traralgon vs. Sale, but anecdotally a number of people drive the hour from Sale to Traralgon to make use of the more frequent services. And cars parked at Traralgon is definitely growing.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Assuming there was enough rolling stock could trains (Sprinters and VLocity) pass each other at the Rosedale Station, conveniently about mid-way between Sale and Traralgon? And with two existing tracks I think (including a very dilapidated second platform).
"blrich"

Rosedale has be straight railed, no loop, no siding.

The goods shed was destroyed by wild weather a few years ago (I forget what state of condition It Is In now)
  fullofrubbish Assistant Commissioner

Location: Brunswick
It's not an hour drive from Sale to Traralgon!!
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
On what basis? Is there a significant customer demand at times there are no trains?

I would have thought that the present service is about right for the needs of the region, even allowing for the fact that it also makes onward connections to the Lakes, Sapphire Coast and Canberra via the hills.
"Gwiwer"

You want to attract choice customers, and not just those forced to use the service, you need to provide something that is actually somewhat competitive with car travel.

Sale is only 50km down the road from Traralgon, with a population not all that insignificant compared with it.

Traralgon gets 222 weekly Melbourne services, Sale gets just 55 (of which 13 are coaches).
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland

VLocities do run to Sale, each Sunday. 1025 down Sale / 1403 up Sacle are VLocity services. Typically 3 Car VLocity + 2 Car VLocity, with the 2 Car VLocity detaching at Traralgon on the down, and the 3 Car VLocity attaching to another 2 Car VLocity at Traralgon on the up.
"vlinecars"


And on Sunday 27th it was a 3 + 3 car Vlocity that ran to Sale. First time I'd seen that. No photos unfortunately. I was driving a 5" gauge train at Traralgon when it went past.
  B 67 Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland
These kind of routes really should have more trains daily than the present 3


On what basis?  Is there a significant customer demand at times there are no trains?  
"Gwiwer"


A bit like when trains were returned to Bairnsdale in '04, the demand came and grew once the services were there. When there was only the bus, demand was low, but many just drove to Sale to get the train. Now people in Sale (and beyond) drive to Traralgon to catch the train there. Do you think they'd bother if there was a train running at a suitable time from Sale - or Bairnsdale?

I heard that V/Line did a survey of passengers on the train a few years ago, to ascertain if services needed to be increased or changed. It doesn't take too much brain power to work out the problem with that. Rolling Eyes After all, those not happy with the service frequencies were probably in their cars and never got to see the survey. Laughing Me for one. I heard about it from someone who did use the train.



I would have thought that the present service is about right for the needs of the region, even allowing for the fact that it also makes onward connections to the Lakes,  Sapphire Coast and Canberra via the hills.
"Gwiwer"


Well, it's certainly better than nothing, but as one of those living in that region, the current service is of very little use for my travel patterns. I am one of those that more often than not drives to Traralgon to catch the train - and I live walking distance from Stratford station.

If you try to get much more past Traralgon you will need to cross trains somewhere as the line is single track.  
"Gwiwer"


One could argue that Moe - Morwell - Traralgon is single track too, although there are a couple of passing points of course. No real reason some more can't be added beyond Traralgon.

I don't believe we need as many services as Traralgon, but certainly more than 3 a day.  As I said in a previous thread, in the mornings and evenings, there is a lot of traffic on the Princes Hwy of people commuting for work and TAFE etc. between Bairnsdale, Sale and Latrobe Valley - and there are no trains at all at times suitable for these people.
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
And on Sunday 27th it was a 3 + 3 car Vlocity that ran to Sale. First time I'd seen that. No photos unfortunately. I was driving a 5" gauge train at Traralgon when it went past.
"B 67"


Six cars to Sale generally happens with occupation weekends where Bairnsdale/Sale/Traralgon trains terminate at/originate out of Pakenham; so just about every second/third weekend at the moment!
  712M Chief Commissioner

And on Sunday 27th it was a 3 + 3 car Vlocity that ran to Sale. First time I'd seen that. No photos unfortunately. I was driving a 5" gauge train at Traralgon when it went past.
"B 67"


Six cars to Sale generally happens with occupation weekends where Bairnsdale/Sale/Traralgon trains terminate at/originate out of Pakenham; so just about every second/third weekend at the moment!
"vlinecars"


This service is usually a 2VL + 3VL, with the 2VL detaching at Traralgon and returning to Melbourne, and vice-versa on the up.
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
And on Sunday 27th it was a 3 + 3 car Vlocity that ran to Sale. First time I'd seen that. No photos unfortunately. I was driving a 5" gauge train at Traralgon when it went past.
"B 67"


Six cars to Sale generally happens with occupation weekends where Bairnsdale/Sale/Traralgon trains terminate at/originate out of Pakenham; so just about every second/third weekend at the moment!
"vlinecars"


This service is usually a 2VL + 3VL, with the 2VL detaching at Traralgon and returning to Melbourne, and vice-versa on the up.
"712M"


Err thanks, think I said that on the last page..........

VLocities do run to Sale, each Sunday. 1025 down Sale / 1403 up Sacle are VLocity services. Typically 3 Car VLocity + 2 Car VLocity, with the 2 Car VLocity detaching at Traralgon on the down, and the 3 Car VLocity attaching to another 2 Car VLocity at Traralgon on the up.
"vlinecars"
  ImpulseRail Locomotive Fireman

I wonder if anybody has ever actually taken a photo of the Vlocity between Traralgon and Sale, yet to see a shot.
"L2"

Here you go, took these at Kilmany today.



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