Sunbury Electrification Project

 
  Speed Minister for Railways

I see that Leader Newspapers are advertising a live blog at 12:30 next Tuesday.
Ms Kosky has agreed to field your questions live from Spring St on Tuesday, May 26, from 12.30pm to 1.30pm. ... To take part on May 26, come back to this website and follow the link to the Lynne Kosky Live Blog.

(http://caulfield-glen-eira-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/live-blog-with-transport-minister-lynne-kosky/)

I mention this on the Sunbury thread because my printed copy of a different Leader newspaper says that the first quarter at least will be dedicated to the Sunbury electrification.

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  Speed Minister for Railways

It was quite tame really
[comment from Andrew]why was the proposed Calder Park station not included in the plans to electrify through to sunbury? This station car park would have provided an additional couple of hundred spaces
...
Lynne Kosky:  
The electrification will deliver a 500 space car park at Diggers Rest and en extra 100 parking spaces at Sunbury. We will continue monitor the availability of parking at Watergardens.
...
[Comment From Jeff ]
Surely the government has to look at moving the railway station at Sunbury to free up the boom gates in Station St. Will this happen?
...
Lynn Kosky:
We will be working closely with VicRoads and the City of Hume to conduct a traffic management assesment of the impact that increased services will have on local roads.
....
[Comment From Adam ]
Also if Subury Electrification of the Subury Line, wont that just bottleneck the existing Sydneham line and make competition between the existing Ballarat trains and Connex trains more intense. Also the trains may not be handle the extra patronage? Without the track duplication between Footscray and Sunshine?
....
Lynne Kosky:  Electrification will deliver higher frequency of services to Sunbury with higher capacity trains than the current V/Line trains. We have secured more than $3 billion in Commonwealth funding to start work on Regional Rail Link
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
The Sunbury electrified services competing for slots on the Sunshine-Southern Cross section would be a moot point, wouldn't it?

You'd be 'taking out' the Sunbury-Southern Cross VLP services, and just extending the Sydenham services. Seymour services become express through Sunbury/Sydenham.

And the duplification / dedicated VLP tracks would help anyway.

Still amazed there'll be no Calder Park Station, although, without building a flyover for Calder Park Drive, there's no point really, as you can't turn right there to head to the city anyway.

Station Rd in Sunbury could be interesting, though. Although, it'll be no different to Melton Hwy at Sydenham station, right now, really.

Wolfpac
  vlocity160 V/Gunzel

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/newsroom/11072.html

CHOICE OF V/LINE OR METRO SERVICE FOR SUNBURY RAIL PASSENGERSFrom the Premier
Tuesday, 13 July 2010

Sunbury residents will have a choice between V/Line and metropolitan rail services following the completion of the Sunbury Electrification Project, Premier John Brumby announced today.

Visiting the station at Sunbury with Member for Macedon Joanne Duncan, Mr Brumby announced Sunbury passengers would be able to board V/Line services for their journey to Melbourne following the $270 million electrification of the rail line from Sydenham.

“We have listened to the community and understand they want the option of boarding a V/Line train or a metropolitan train,” Mr Brumby said.

“We have consulted and listened and used important community feedback to determine the transport options for Sunbury.

“V/Line services will continue at Sunbury and passengers will have the choice between a V/Line service and a metropolitan train once the electrification project is complete.

“At least 70 per cent of current V/Line services will continue to stop at Sunbury with 17 services each weekday and 25 weekend services dropping off and picking up passengers.”

Mr Brumby said these added services would be able to carry an extra 3000 people into Melbourne each day.

“Our government is taking action to build a better transport system so people have access to the best, safest and quickest transport options available to them,” Mr Brumby said.

Ms Joanne Duncan said this was great news for the Sunbury community.

“The electrification will provide the community with more services more often that can carry more people on the rail network,” Ms Duncan said.

“Not only will the project future proof services to meet the needs of this growing community but rail passengers will now get a choice of services as well. It’s the best of both worlds.”

Exact stopping patterns and timetabling for both the Sydenham-Sunbury metropolitan service and the V/Line service will be finalised closer to completion.

O’Donnell Griffin and Laing O’Rourke Electrification Joint Venture has joined the Department of Transport and the rail operators Metro and V/Line in an alliance to design and deliver this project.

Construction started in June 2010 and will be completed in 2012. For more information visit http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/sunbury.
"John Brumby"


Can't say that I agree with what has been said here. Though it will help the government and get some of the voters in the electorate of Macedon.

It will only cause the issues which we currently see at Pakenham. Metro passengers occupying V/Line seats and services. Making it worse off for people further down the line.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line


Can't say that I agree with what has been said here. Though it will help the government and get some of the voters in the electorate of Macedon.

It will only cause the issues which we currently see at Pakenham. Metro passengers occupying V/Line seats and services. Making it worse off for people further down the line.
"vlocity160"


IMO after electrification, expect a timetable review excluding Sunbury as a stop for V/Line trains at off-peak periods.

Why the Swan Hill's and Echuca's still stop there  to pick up & set down pax is just crazy ExclamationBounce
  Gauntlet Chief Commissioner

Location:
When I was at Diggers Rest a few weeks ago I noticed a sign, "Double the current number of services to the City, its all part of The Plan."

Given that there aren't that many trains stopping at Diggers Rest I was wondering what spark frequency would be required to do this.

If Sunbury doesn't lose its Vline services then both stations could get double the current services with a 40 minute inter-peak electric service.
I hope that's not all part of The Plan.
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
V/Line trains will not stop at Digger's Rest, and I imagine fewer will stop at Sunbury.
  712M Chief Commissioner

V/Line trains will not stop at Digger's Rest, and I imagine fewer will stop at Sunbury.
"tomohawk"


Most peak hour services to/from Bendigo run express through Sunbury anyway, so Sunbury will only really have off peak services available to them.
  fullofrubbish Assistant Commissioner

Location: Brunswick
Just thought i'd share a quote from Brumby in one of the many press releases over the past few days:

“Since we completed the Regional Fast Rail project there has been a renaissance in regional rail and today more people than ever before are travelling on our regional trains. That’s why we are making the right investments now to plan for growth on the regional rail network.”

For god sake places like Sunbury, Melton & Pakenham are not regional! Not sure about you, but as a taxpayer I am sick of my money being spent on expensive Vlo's to carry commuters from areas that should be served exclusive by sparks, yet true regional areas, such as Echuca, Shepparton, Maryborough & Warrnambool current connections to and from the city are laughable.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
Just thought i'd share a quote from Brumby in one of the many press releases over the past few days:

“Since we completed the Regional Fast Rail project there has been a renaissance in regional rail and today more people than ever before are travelling on our regional trains. That’s why we are making the right investments now to plan for growth on the regional rail network.”

For god sake places like Sunbury, Melton & Pakenham are not regional! Not sure about you, but as a taxpayer I am sick of my money being spent on expensive Vlo's to carry commuters from areas that should be served exclusive by sparks, yet true regional areas, such as Echuca, Shepparton, Maryborough & Warrnambool current connections to and from the city are laughable.
"fullofrubbish"


They're really missing the point there. Melton, Sunbury and Pakenham are all considered outer-metro, not Regional/country. (Melton is/was a Satellite City, after all!)

Aside from Sunbury-ites, obviously, Melton would welcome sparks with open arms. Better frequency etc is always welcome. Yes, the EMU stock isn't as cushy as the N sets (on par with Sprinters/V/Los though) but I know I'd rather walk up to the station and have a train there more often than not, than have to wait 40 minutes for the next one, which is usually packed to the brim anyway!

Any wonder most people pack into Albion to ride a spark into the city, from Caroline Springs, Deer Park and Ardeer. That close to a spark line (Sydenham) yet drive 5 minutes down the road means the difference between a train every 10 minutes or 30-40 that rarely stops (Deer Park/Ardeer)...

At least electrify out to Caroline Springs, as a start, with a massive Park and Ride car park.

Wolfpac
  Taitset Chief Commissioner

Location: Eltham, (former) vintage safeworking capital of Melbourne
Yes, the EMU stock isn't as cushy as the N sets (on par with Sprinters/V/Los though)
"wolfpac"

This is something that I think seriously needs to be looked at in Melbourne. Ever since the Comeng sets were refurbished and new trains delivered, we've made do with very thin, hard, seats on sparks. It seems to have become accepted that spark seats are uncomfortable... But why should they be? (yes, I know they're supposed to be 'vandal proof,' but I'm sure they can be made vandal proof AND comfortable)

Every other suburban network I've travelled on has had much thicker and more comfortable seats. You'd think this would be a priority in Melbourne where you can quite often be on a spark for over an hour (longer than many V/Line trips in fact!). I commute half an hour each way, and find the current spark seats (quite literally) a pain in the a*se!
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
This is something that I think seriously needs to be looked at in Melbourne. Ever since the Comeng sets were refurbished and new trains delivered, we've made do with very thin, hard, seats on sparks. It seems to have become accepted that spark seats are uncomfortable... But why should they be? (yes, I know they're supposed to be 'vandal proof,' but I'm sure they can be made vandal proof AND comfortable)

Every other suburban network I've travelled on has had much thicker and more comfortable seats. You'd think this would be a priority in Melbourne where you can quite often be on a spark for over an hour (longer than many V/Line trips in fact!). I commute half an hour each way, and find the current spark seats (quite literally) a pain in the a*se!
"Taitset"


That was part of the reason Sunbury-ites refused to have EMU stock, seating and lack of a toilet on board...

Unfortunately it does have to be moron-vandal proof, but surely there's an alternative, (safe and comfortable) to the seating currently being used? I suppose it's the least of people's concerns, seeing as trains are packed anyway and you're lucky to get a seat in peak! Smile

Wolfpac
  traintrambus70 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Waiting for the Doncaster Line
This is something that I think seriously needs to be looked at in Melbourne. Ever since the Comeng sets were refurbished and new trains delivered, we've made do with very thin, hard, seats on sparks. It seems to have become accepted that spark seats are uncomfortable...
"Taitset"


Couldn't agree more, having lived and commuted in Melbourne for more than 30 years and travelled on spark (and diesel) commuter services regularly North Of The Border, in Scotland and in SE England, I've never understood why the sparks in Melbourne have to have low backed, uncomfortable seats.  Heck even the buses have decent seats.

If we want to have a proper two-tiered system, surely longitudinal seating (metro) and high backed, bogan-proof seating (medium-long-distance) is the way to go?
  bobharris2002 Train Controller

Can someone tell me what the longest electrified line in Victoria is.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Can someone tell me what the longest electrified line in Victoria is.
"bobharris2002"


Pakenham Line, which is 58km from Melbourne.
  kuldalai Chief Commissioner

If this wretched State Government ever gets its act together with a two tier Inner & Outer metro train operation (Inner SAS, Outer Ltd Stops in Inner area) then one could have two distinct types of trains , (i) high density inner area standing room trains with longitudinal seating, and (ii) outer trains with more comfortable suburban seating as found on the Paris MTR lines.
  The Fat Controller Chief Train Controller

Location: Macedon, Victoria
I think I have seen it discussed, but can't find it. On one of the promotional videos, it shows stabling sidings past Sunbury Station for the sparks. There's not much room there, both length and width. Does anyone know where exactly they are going to put the sidings, if at all?

Cheers,

Fatso.
  GeoffreyHansen Minister for Railways

Location: In a FAM sleeper
If this wretched State Government ever gets its act together with a two tier Inner & Outer metro train operation (Inner SAS, Outer Ltd Stops in Inner area) then one could have two distinct types of trains , (i) high density inner area standing room trains with longitudinal seating, and (ii) outer trains with more comfortable suburban seating as found on the Paris MTR lines.
"kuldalai"


If such a two-tier operation could be achieved there may end up being less objection to electrification being extended to rural areas.
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
How viable would it be to install a third track from Sydenham to Sunshine to allow for peak express services? That would allow some peak services to have the same stopping pattern as the existing Sunbury services at a higher frequency.
  Nightfire Minister for Railways

Location: Gippsland
Can someone tell me what the longest electrified line in Victoria is.
"bobharris2002"


Pakenham Line, which is 58km from Melbourne.
"melbtrip"


The electrified line once extended 100 km's further to Traralgon
  Comeng552M Assistant Commissioner

Location: In Sydney "Fixing the trains"
Can someone tell me what the longest electrified line in Victoria is.
"bobharris2002"


Pakenham Line, which is 58km from Melbourne.
"melbtrip"


The electrified line once extended 100 km's further to Traralgon
"Nightfire"
Personally I liked the line better when it was electrfied all the way to Traralgon. I think having lines electrified makes the line seem more modern. The electrification was removed as diesel trains became favorable on the line.

Heck even the buses have decent seats
Modern buses these days have hard seats, but the seats in older buses are more comfortable.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
I think I have seen it discussed, but can't find it. On one of the promotional videos, it shows stabling sidings past Sunbury Station for the sparks. There's not much room there, both length and width. Does anyone know where exactly they are going to put the sidings, if at all?

Cheers,

Fatso.
"The Fat Controller"


I went to the info night at Diggers Rest when it was on and they did mention it. It's not possible on account of the bluestone bridge, apparently it is too low and too narrow...  Confused So they can't put further stabling on that side.

Basically it's going to be a case of cram as much track in the space they've got as they can.

Wolfpac
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
How viable would it be to install a third track from Sydenham to Sunshine to allow for peak express services? That would allow some peak services to have the same stopping pattern as the existing Sunbury services at a higher frequency.
"alstom_888m"


Easy as pie, there is no significant constraint on corridor width other than at St Albans... Which is mooted to be the next grade separation. I would be amazed if provision for a 3rd track wasn't made. Ginifer, Albion and Keilor Plains would be fairly straightforward to add a third track through, which only leaves an extra bridge span over Taylors Rd, and a grade sep at Anderson Road (three bg tracks and one sg tracks means grade separation apparently).

There is room for 4 tracks if thats needed, too.
  wolfpac Minister for Railways

Location: Over here...
---snip--- and a grade sep at Anderson Road (three bg tracks and one sg tracks means grade separation apparently).

There is room for 4 tracks if thats needed, too.
"tomohawk"


Having been caught up in the traffic that gets caught between both level crossings and then waiting for the lights to get back onto Ballarat Rd, yes, grade separation is more than over due!  Evil or Very MadLaughingLaughing

Anderson Rd is chaotic come peak hour, get a few sparks going through, a SG freight limited to 20km/h and a couple of VLP trains, well, you get the idea... Wink

Wolfpac
  tomohawk Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting The Met to get around
I would expect to see it separated during the RRL works at Sunshine. From memory, the plan was to have four BG tracks from Albion to Sunshine, and the SG track. I would be surprised if provisions weren't made for a future second SG track.

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