Standard gauge P class

 
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
The original Harris M Cars plied the Rails for many years. Not sure how many crashes they experienced, with other rail vehicles, but I do think they survived level crossing accidents better than some Comenge accidents which pictures I have seen.
I believe the Union stopped the driving cab H Class country conversions on "crash-a-bility" SmileSmile
Which implies they valued Dynon and Country crews above Jolimont crews.
Cheers
Rod Young

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  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
Rod, how much of the H cars' above-frame structure survived the refurbishments?

Also, did the Harris trains run at 115kph in Suburban service?
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Rod, how much of the H cars' above-frame structure survived the refurbishments?

Also, did the Harris trains run at 115kph in Suburban service?
"SteamtoStay"

G'Day David

Really have no idea what they removed from the M Cars to make them vans only.
The Harris Motor cars had limited forward vision. They had two heavy beams running up between the drivers and guards windows, As well as heavy side edge beams. So they were pretty well protected. The refurbished Electric Harris cars retained the small drivers front window, because they did not want to alter the collision protection system.
The Comeng cab with the big windscreen became the acceptable standard, which shortened the lives of the older cars and the refurbished electric sets.

In fact this is possibly why the push pull Harris sets finished up with a loco at each end rather than a driving trailer. One suspects that simply pushing the central vertical crash pillars in to open up the windscreen, was not an option.
I believe the speed limit was about 80 KPH. We used to try for 100 on the Pakenham Line, but we had to restrict the Controller use as The Harris would pull the sub stations in full parallel. The Harris sets rode well with a type of Commonwealth bogie fitted, and I believe were hauled at 115 on the Geelong lines during Royal visits, or to  service the air display in the early years. The Spark driver would drop his pantographs, a B or a T Class attached to the front and on towards the Air show. Another engine would haul it back to the wires where the Spark driver would raise pantos, and take control over whilst the B was detached. Worked as smooth as silk, too. Could not possibly repeat that these days. Nanny would have kittens!! Any hows Wink all the crossovers, signal boxes and most of the staff have since been removed.
Cheers

Rod Young
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
Harris trains could run at 115 just as well as every other spark. I've heard somewhere that early built Harrises could clock above 130 with the weak field connected. I'm sure any spark in service today could run well above 115 today judging on power alone. However, they'd all pull a sub eventually.

My hard disk has since been wiped, but I got my hands on a Harris M blueprint and tried to make an OpenBVE Harris train using the tractive effort values provided. Felt much faster than a modern spark, and I dismissed it as a bad conversion or otherwise.
  SteamtoStay Chief Commissioner

Location: Building floorplates
The Spark driver would drop his pantographs, a B or a T Class attached to the front and on towards the Air show. Another engine would haul it back to the wires where the Spark driver would raise pantos, and take control over whilst the B was detached. Worked as smooth as silk, too. Could not possibly repeat that these days. Nanny would have kittens!
"comtrain"

Presumably the train was stationary whilst the locomotives were coupled/uncoupled?

On a related topic, frankly, I don't understand the reason why Victoria -alone in the world- has a ban on shunting with occupied carriages.
  fast01 BUTTSCRATCHER!

Location: Somewhere your not.
The Spark driver would drop his pantographs, a B or a T Class attached to the front and on towards the Air show. Another engine would haul it back to the wires where the Spark driver would raise pantos, and take control over whilst the B was detached. Worked as smooth as silk, too. Could not possibly repeat that these days. Nanny would have kittens!
"comtrain"

Presumably the train was stationary whilst the locomotives were coupled/uncoupled?
"SteamtoStay"
They don't even divide on the fly now days, so it's pretty certain they'd be stationary, considering they'd need to uncouple hoses on an Auto coupler setup..  Rolling Eyes
  YM-Mundrabilla Minister for Railways

Location: Mundrabilla but I'd rather be in Narvik
The Spark driver would drop his pantographs, a B or a T Class attached to the front and on towards the Air show. Another engine would haul it back to the wires where the Spark driver would raise pantos, and take control over whilst the B was detached. Worked as smooth as silk, too. Could not possibly repeat that these days. Nanny would have kittens!
"comtrain"

Presumably the train was stationary whilst the locomotives were coupled/uncoupled?

On a related topic, frankly, I don't understand the reason why Victoria -alone in the world- has a ban on shunting with occupied carriages.
"SteamtoStay"


It's the nanny state again. Take this rule to its idiotic conclusion - order everyone out of bed on the Aurora or Overland at Albury/Serviceton while we change engines. What a sight.......engine fails in the section do we unload the passengers onto the ballast so that we can attach a relief engine..................crazy isn't it. Sad

In Switzerland they unload passengers into the 6 foot between crossing trains without any drama. We are turning/have turned passengers (customers/guests having gone out of our way to use the wrong word just for the sake of doing so) into a pack of fairies. Sad
  wongm GEEWONG

Location: Geelong, Victoria
In fact this is possibly why the push pull Harris sets finished up with a loco at each end rather than a driving trailer. One suspects that simply pushing the central vertical crash pillars in to open up the windscreen, was not an option.
"comtrain"

Back when the H sets were being converted, were locos being run driver only? In either case, a driving trailer would have needed a driver and second person, the P classes still do as well.

Also, did the Harris trains run at 115kph in Suburban service?
"SteamtoStay"

I believe the speed limit was about 80 KPH. We used to try for 100 on the Pakenham Line, but we had to restrict the Controller use as The Harris would pull the sub stations in full parallel. The Harris sets rode well with a type of Commonwealth bogie fitted, and I believe were hauled at 115 on the Geelong lines during Royal visits, or to  service the air display in the early years.
"comtrain"

When the H sets first entered V/Line they were restricted to 100 km/h, after fitting of different springs (within a few years?) they were allowed to do 115 km/h, with text on the end of the sets informing crew of the fact. When the red livery came in all the sets had been modified, so the text was omitted.
  712M Chief Commissioner

Did Harris trains ever run east of Pakenham before conversion to H sets?
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
I have seen photos before of a Harris set which ran through to Traralgon under its own power on an enthusiast special in the 70's or early 80's, then was hauled by IIRC a T class to Sale via Rosedale one leg and Maffra the other (can't recall the order)

The photos are online somewhere, buggered if I know where at the moment though!
  vlinecars V/Man - "Yeah!"

Location: Here, there, everywhere!
Have just dug around a bit regarding the tour; it was an ARE tour which didn't run to Sale, but rather, Stratford (silly me saying it ran to Sale, considering it went via Maffra!)

Ran on 14/3/1970, and the Harris was hauled by B85 beyond Traralgon. Ran via Rosedale on the down and Maffra on the up.
  comtrain Chief Commissioner

Location: Near Albury Wodonga
Post deleted, missed the extra words, and agree that Socomi bogies were fitted for higher speeds, in early days until they found correct spring rates to allow all Harris Country sets to travel at 115.
Cheers
Rod

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