Cairns Tilt Train strikes a car

You must be logged in to reply

  Search thread   Image gallery
1 of 2 2 »

Does Queensland need its level crossings protected?

  

  

 View Results

cricketstar Train Controller

The cairns Tilt Train has struck a car at 7:20 A.M. The train halted at Knobels at Farleigh, 10 km north of Mackay and there has only been minor injuries from the driver of the car and no injuries on board the train

 
bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town

The cairns Tilt Train has struck a car at 7:20 A.M. The train halted at Knobels at Farleigh, 10 km north of Mackay and there has only been minor injuries from the driver of the car and no injuries on board the train

- cricketstar


I imagine that the crossing would have had at least a STOP or Give Way sign, therefore it would have been protected.

Your poll would have been better phrased as "Should Queenslanders learn to obey the road rules?"

 
chorlton Junior Train Controller

Location: Footplate

The cairns Tilt Train has struck a car at 7:20 A.M. The train halted at Knobels at Farleigh, 10 km north of Mackay and there has only been minor injuries from the driver of the car and no injuries on board the train

- cricketstar


I imagine that the crossing would have had at least a STOP or Give Way sign, therefore it would have been protected.

Your poll would have been better phrased as "Should Queenslanders learn to obey the road rules?"

- bingley hall



The ABC says that there was no protection!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-19/car-hits-tilt-train/3782416 
 

 
bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town

The cairns Tilt Train has struck a car at 7:20 A.M. The train halted at Knobels at Farleigh, 10 km north of Mackay and there has only been minor injuries from the driver of the car and no injuries on board the train

- cricketstar


I imagine that the crossing would have had at least a STOP or Give Way sign, therefore it would have been protected.

Your poll would have been better phrased as "Should Queenslanders learn to obey the road rules?"

- bingley hall



The ABC says that there was no protection!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-19/car-hits-tilt-train/3782416 
 

- chorlton



The ABC said "The level crossing does not have warning signals or safety gates."

My guess is that by "warning signals" they mean lights and gongs. 

 
Big J Chief Train Controller

Location: In Paradise

The cairns Tilt Train has struck a car at 7:20 A.M. The train halted at Knobels at Farleigh, 10 km north of Mackay and there has only been minor injuries from the driver of the car and no injuries on board the train

- cricketstar


I imagine that the crossing would have had at least a STOP or Give Way sign, therefore it would have been protected.

Your poll would have been better phrased as "Should Queenslanders learn to obey the road rules?"

- bingley hall



Totally agree Bing. This site is protected as there is a stop sign with advisory signs. For this particular incident I do not know what the full facts are so I won't comment on the cause.

As to the poll, it is inane. Of course the answer is yes and I think you would find that there would be none that are protected. I would to hear from a person that would say no. It depends what you expect it to be deemed protected. As far as I am concern, a stop sign would mean that the crossing is protected.

Knobels road is a rural road with a low traffic count and a stop sign with advisory signs should be sufficient for a motorist.

So I would like the OP to clarify what is the point of their poll? As far as I am concerned it is meaningless. Are they meaning, "Are the standards for level crossing protection in Queensland adequate?".

However I would like to thank the OP for the story as it was news!

 
Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld

Your poll would have been better phrased as "Should Queenslanders learn to obey the road rules?"

- bingley hall



That would probably be unfair to the majority of Queenslanders. Do any of the news reports even state that this particular driver is a Queenslander? Of course nobody from other states has ever had an accident at a level crossing have they? 



Tilt train collides with car

Amy Remeikis
January 19, 2012 - 8:56AM

Passengers on a north Queensland-bound tilt train that collided with a car early this morning have been told by staff there was "an incident" but "everything is OK".

Passengers, including Brisbane's Justin Russell, have been tweeting from the stricken train, which is sitting at Knobel's Road in Farleigh, about 10 kilometres north of Mackay.

Queensland Rail staff alerted police to the incident at 7.20am after the train struck the car at a signed railway crossing at 7.15am.

A police spokesman said he believed the driver of the vehicle involved in the collision had been able to walk from his car and had suffered only minor injuries.

The 55-year-old man has been taken to hospital for treatment for shock.

There have been no reports of a derailment and none of the train's 134 passengers are believed to be injured.

"Train headed back to Mackay and we will be put on buses to head north to Townsville," Mr Russell told brisbanetimes.com.au via Twitter this morning.

It is believed the train remains at a standstill while the damage, if any, is assessed.

QR Acting CEO Jim Benstead urged for more vigilance at level crossings.

It's the second incident in less than a month for Queensland Rail trains travelling to Cairns.

Read more

- Brisbane Times

 

 
chorlton Junior Train Controller

Location: Footplate

The cairns Tilt Train has struck a car at 7:20 A.M. The train halted at Knobels at Farleigh, 10 km north of Mackay and there has only been minor injuries from the driver of the car and no injuries on board the train

- cricketstar


I imagine that the crossing would have had at least a STOP or Give Way sign, therefore it would have been protected.

Your poll would have been better phrased as "Should Queenslanders learn to obey the road rules?"

- bingley hall



The ABC says that there was no protection!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-19/car-hits-tilt-train/3782416 
 

- chorlton



The ABC said "The level crossing does not have warning signals or safety gates."

My guess is that by "warning signals" they mean lights and gongs. 

- bingley hall




The ABC article, has been updated, after I posted this Sad  

 
raymond Deputy Commissioner

Location: Gladstone, Queensland

Cairns Tilt Train swerves to hit car would be a good headline.

The car has to have driven on the track =car hits train.


RAYMOND

 
andrewstrains Assistant Commissioner

Location: Townsville, Where else but QLD

Cairns Tilt Train swerves to hit car would be a good headline.

The car has to have driven on the track =car hits train.


RAYMOND

- raymond



Gee Raymond you could get a job at the Crumbly Snail with a headline like that!!

 
stefowefo Chief Train Controller

In response to 'Does Queensland need its level crossings protected?', I reckon signs saying 'HIGH SPEED TRAINS', similar to the ones at unprotected level crossings on the Prospector route in WA, should be installed.

 
Speed Minister for Railways

Along with what signage or other warnings were at the crossing, the other question would be how good the visibility was. If it's not possible to see far enough along the line to cross safely, then the crossing is at an unsuitable place. It's possible that crossings could be built in unsuitable places in past centuries and track speeds have increased without considering whether each crossing on the track was safe.

 
Graham4405 Minister for Railways

Location: Dalby Qld

It's possible that crossings could be built in unsuitable places in past centuries and track speeds have increased without considering whether each crossing on the track was safe.

- Speed



It is to be hoped that such crossings would be evaluated before allowing faster rail speeds through them!

 
bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town

Along with what signage or other warnings were at the crossing, the other question would be how good the visibility was. If it's not possible to see far enough along the line to cross safely, then the crossing is at an unsuitable place. It's possible that crossings could be built in unsuitable places in past centuries and track speeds have increased without considering whether each crossing on the track was safe.

- Speed


Generally these things are considered, but sometimes the road authorities are slow to do something about them. Unfortunately it doesn't matter how hard you try, the stupid people will always try and beat the train.

From what little I can see on Google and the ABC image it looks like the line here is dead straight with no obstructions. 

 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE

I voted no. The intersection has a sign, if it had the Bruce Hwy on the other side and instead of a CTT it was the B-double that took the car out we wouldn't be seeing requests for a cloverleaf interchange. The ABC wouldn't have even reported it unless there was a death.

The CTT up that way was probably travelling within 0-30km/hr of a freighter and from the higher speed can probably pull up faster, so the sign high speed trains is probably not relevent.


Regards
Shane

 
cricketstar Train Controller

ok i probably should have phrased the question better, "Should Queensland have all level crossings on passenger routes and in dangerous spots protected by boom gates and flashing lights?"

 
splod Junior Train Controller

Location: Darwin, NT

ok i probably should have phrased the question better, "Should Queensland have all level crossings on passenger routes and in dangerous spots protected by boom gates and flashing lights?"

- cricketstar



If you tried to enforce that, what would happen is that hundreds of crossings on piddly roads across the state would be closed to road traffic (including this one - they can drive 1km up the road to the Farleigh-Habana Rd, which has lights).

What about property access roads?  Should QR put lights and booms across someone's farm gate just because it crosses a passenger route?  There comes a point at which road traffic using a crossing is so low that it does not make sense to add lights and/or booms.  Having said that, the impact and inconvenience to QR and their passengers from this incident was quite high compared to its severity and the impact on road traffic - maybe they should push for such crossings to be closed.  Hope they on-charge the full cost of the recovery to the vehicle's insurer.

 
cricketstar Train Controller

lets think about it like this, 702 near misses in the year of 2010 which is too many and people just think they can beat the train, boom gates are a bit of a deterent and if it comes to having to remove level crossings so be it, it is in the interest of safety of drivers of motor vehicles, locomotive drivers and the passengers aboard the train

 
Peter_J Junior Train Controller

Location: Brisbane

Motorists need to learn the road rules and how to drive safely.
Even if the crossing doesn't have lights / bells there is usually a "Stop" sign.
Even if the "Stop" sign is missing it is common sense to stop and check both ways for approaching trains. 

 
TigerBlood Locomotive Fireman

Boom gates aren't the end all solution. There isn't a solution to stupidity other than death.

 
Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere

ALL level crossings need protection from the idiot motorists who will insist on abusing them.

Rural and lightly-used crossings require at the very least a warning sign and a full gate across the road.  A gate not a boom.  Something which needs to be electically released by a signaller upon demand and if safe to do so.  It then gets replaced in position by the road user or returns automatically after a pre-set time of perhaps five minutes.

Greater levels of protection are required for busier roads or railways including fully-worked gates (not booms) under the control of a signaller.  

All of this costs money.  But what price do we place on human life?  And on the freight which is all too frequently destroyed in level crossing smashes and means someone has to explain to the customer why they won' be getting their coal / grain / basic foodstuffs this week.

The motorist has proven to be untrustworthy - even though it is the few who mar it for the majority - and requires protection from him(her) self.

Who should foot the bill?  The motorist of course.  With a respectable input from the responsible railway authority as an investment in safety and reliability.

The poor CTT seems to be something of a magnet for bad luck.  Thankfully it is well constructed and has coped with everything thrown at it. 

 
Big J Chief Train Controller

Location: In Paradise

ALL level crossings need protection from the idiot motorists who will insist on abusing them.

Rural and lightly-used crossings require at the very least a warning sign and a full gate across the road.  A gate not a boom.  Something which needs to be electrically released by a signaller upon demand and if safe to do so.  It then gets replaced in position by the road user or returns automatically after a pre-set time of perhaps five minutes.

Greater levels of protection are required for busier roads or railways including fully-worked gates (not booms) under the control of a signaller.  

All of this costs money.  But what price do we place on human life?  And on the freight which is all too frequently destroyed in level crossing smashes and means someone has to explain to the customer why they won' be getting their coal / grain / basic foodstuffs this week.

The motorist has proven to be untrustworthy - even though it is the few who mar it for the majority - and requires protection from him(her) self.

Who should foot the bill?  The motorist of course.  With a respectable input from the responsible railway authority as an investment in safety and reliability.

The poor CTT seems to be something of a magnet for bad luck.  Thankfully it is well constructed and has coped with everything thrown at it. 

- Gwiwer



Using the same logic at every set of road traffic lights there should be gates installed, as someone could run a red light. I agree with your sentiment, but if someone is tempted to drive around a boom arms with lights, then they could be tempted to go through a red light at normal traffic light intersection. If motorists obey the existing road rules then they are safe.  Unfortunately human nature is that some will push the boundaries. Some will make it and others will fail.

Personally just like red light cameras at known black spots for traffic light intersections, cameras for boom controlled level crossings should be more wide spread for enforcing the existing law.

Also rememeber that causes for incidents can occur due to other reasons such as medical conditions, environmental conditions, mechanical failure, weather conditions etc etc and usually are due to a combination of these causes as well as human stupidity.

EDIT: Spelling and grammar

 
Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere

remember that causes for incidents can occur due to other reasons such as medical conditions, environmental conditions, mechanical failure, weather conditions etc etc and usually are due to a combination of these causes as well as human stupidity.

- A user



Absolutely.  These and other factors sometimes contribute to incidents but taken in total, and based upon some years of professional experience, they are the minority. 


human nature is that some will push the boundaries. Some will make it and others will fail.
- A user



Nature sometimes has a way of sorting the good from the bad.  Sadly that often results in tragedy for at least one family.  With regard to the potential to run a red light or stop sign I fully agree that exists.  Unlike failing to stop for a railway crossing however the potential for massive damage, many injuries and large numbers of fatalities is much less.   

One injury or fatality is one too many but we need to manage the degree of risk.  In a town there may be more traffic about meaning fewer people would take the chance and those who do fail to comply with signs often fail to see them in good time or even at all.  At a rural railway crossing it is widely assumed no-one is about and that it is somehow safe to just carry on at often quite high speed.  That is where the higher risk lies - a single vehicle failing to comply with signs or signals has the potential to cause the derailment of 1500m of freight (or more) with the loss of multiple locomotives as well.  Worse still and harking back to the CTT as the original topic that same rogue vehicle with a single occupant has the potential to cause hundreds of fatalities aboard a passenger train.

What is my professional interest in this?  Many years in the public transport industry some of it in a rail safety environment and latterly a fair number of years in motor insurance dealing with claims and, occasionally, having to explain to the bereaved family just why a claim cannot be accepted and that the deceased's estate (i.e. the family they leave behind) might be held liable for virtually unlimited damages as a result of an incident.  I can assure you that is not in any way pleasant.  

 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE

"What price is a human life worth?", The old bleeding heart phrase, the govt, accountants and insurance agents can tell you this, Tas has it costed to nearest cent for each body part. In the UAE blood money (money paid to avoid death penalty if family asked for it is usually valued around $0.5 - 1m. Even Boeing allowed a known fault to continue because it was deemed cheaper including the payouts from the eventualy disastor when it occured.

Does it make it right, no, but there is finacial practicallity involved. All cars can be modiifed such that they cannot speed, be driven by a drunk driver, kill the engine in the case of sleepyness or cross an interection with red traffic lights or fail to stop at a STOP sign, slow for a Giveway sign.  

Drive up north, its simply not practical to close or place active level control protection on every LX, although I agree when farm gates are close to a controlled intersection like this the LX should be closed and the access track diverted along the QR ROW (there is often no where else). Also why only pax routes? Surely the grain train headed to Warwick is just as deadly as the Westie at Charlieville, if not more so? When was last time a QR Pax was killed from a LX incedent (yes there have been numerous in Vic)?

LX have been ignored by the boys in blue and red light camera's for years and only recently getting the later. The only ones who should pay for better safety at level crossings are those who don't follow the rules. Would it be unrealistic to make the fine 11points and $1000 as a reminder of the severity and QR/PNQ should publiclly state they will seek finacial compensation for incidents caused by drivers. Hold up a 10,000t coalie for a few hours are see what PNQ and the trackowner charge in lost revenue and costs. 


And my old example, the very day in the paper where on the front page the relatives of the man complained that QR and GLadstone City Council were insulting their fathers death by not putting gates (had lights) on the LX in GLadstone where the guy was taken out by a spark cattle train, on Page 2 a guy was in court from driving around boom gates on Auckland Street 4km away. You cannot make things idiot proof.  

Regards
Shane   

 
Expost Deputy Commissioner

From the ABC link

He has been issued with a traffic infringement notice as police say he disobeyed a stop sign.

The level crossing does not have warning signals or safety gates.




The crossing is protected.  

 
bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town

All of this costs money.  But what price do we place on human life?

- Gwiwer


I wonder if anyone is asking the same question regarding the three people taken out by a B-double on the Hume Highway this week? 

 

You must be logged in to reply

  Search thread   Image gallery
1 of 2 2 »
 
Display from: