New Sydney airport 'should be in Canberra' (Rail Access)

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freightgate Chief Commissioner

Location: Albury, New South Wales

Canberra Airport says its ability to accept flights 24 hours a day makes it the best option for Sydney's second airport.

New South Wales Premier Barry O'Farrell says the best way of dealing with the increasing pressure on Sydney Airport is to build a second airport in Canberra and link the two cities by high speed rail.

A joint federal and NSW taskforce is examining how to deal with projected growth in air traffic and is expected to make its report soon.

Canberra Airport managing director Stephen Byron says any plans to build a new airport closer to Sydney would fail.

"Get a site close to Sydney and spend billions of dollars on a new airport, the reality is that that's going to get knocked back by communities because they complain about airport noise," he said.

"What we have here is an airport that is curfew free."

Joseph Griffith from the ACT Tourism Council agrees Canberra is the best option.

"Our industry has always been very supportive of Canberra being either the overflow or second choice for Sydney Airport," he said.

"I believe there's a very, very good chance of that happening."

ACT Chief Minister Katy Gallagher says she continues to support the proposals, but is sounding a note of caution about the future role of Canberra Airport.

"I'm not sure we need to be tagged as Sydney's second airport city and I think we've been clear about that as well," she said.

"We support ongoing development at the airport but we have to be mindful of the impacts on our city."

 
newington Chief Commissioner

Location: Getting promoted to Sergeant

Pie in the sky.

 
Raichase Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney, NSW

Pie in the sky.

- newington



Mmm, pie.

 
Speed Minister for Railways

The idea has been floated as many times as other airport locations near Sydney. O'Farrell might be making this announcement in reaction to the Commonwealth Transport Minister calling for an airport at Badgery's Creek.

This time, the Chief Minister seems to be objecting to the description of "Sydney's second airport". As the tourism spokesman says, more flights into the airport would mean more business and improved transport connections, so her objections would seem to be just to the name.

 
bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: On a freight train to crazy town

Pie in the sky.

- newington


Aaaah! Always the Australian way forward. 

 
johnboy Chief Commissioner

Location: Up the road from Gulgong



New South Wales Premier Barry O'Farrell says the best way of dealing with the increasing pressure on Sydney Airport is to build a second airport in Canberra and link the two cities by high speed rail. 

- freightgate



And as Barry said under his breath... that would take any pressure of NSW government to take responsibility of building one


A joint federal and NSW taskforce is examining how to deal with projected growth in air traffic and is expected to make its report soon. 

- A user


What? Another report one to throw on the pile? Waste of paper again.
 

Canberra Airport managing director Stephen Byron says any plans to build a new airport closer to Sydney would fail. 

- A user


He is sort of right. Badgery's Creek will never happen, but Newcastle might, and could be successful.

Joseph Griffith from the ACT Tourism Council agrees Canberra is the best option.

- A user


He would not be doing his job if he did object

ACT Chief Minister Katy Gallagher says she continues to support the proposals, but is sounding a note of caution about the future role of Canberra Airport.

"I'm not sure we need to be tagged as Sydney's second airport city and I think we've been clear about that as well," she said.
"We support ongoing development at the airport but we have to be mindful of the impacts on our city." 

- A user

Smart girl.
Otherwise it would be: "Here... have Sydney's 2nd Airport... we will be landing all sorts of loud aircraft 24/7 because its good for you" 

Facts are, a Second Airport will never be built in the Sydney's Basin. There is already a group formed to object any comericalisation of Richmond.
A HSR will never be build to Canberra. 

 
Valvegear Minister for Railways

Location: Norda Fittazroy

At the very least, it would make Canberra useful for something.

 
Oldfart Chief Commissioner

Location: Right base for BK 11R

Two things will get you true high speed rail between Sydney and Canberra. One is unleaded fuel costs of around $2.50 a litre, the other is a saturated Sydney Airport that drives up air fares. Neither are on the horizon for about a decade yet, but you will get nudges towards it, like attempts to wind back the jet curfew at Sydney, or restrict smaller regional operators largely to off-peak times. In the meantime there is no clear economic benefit, and until then no real investment will be made in it.

 
RTT_Rules Minister for Railways

Location: Dubai UAE

I like the Canberra option, but it is subject to extensive fog in winter. Well that was the problem back in 80's when the same idea was rejected, but in the 21st century does fog cause the same issues. Is full instrument/radar assisted available and safe?

HS rail from canberra will be alot cheaper to build than Newcastle. The existing Canberra airport is not that far from existing railway station and could be a simple extension. Williamstown? Plus the terrain is far more complex and more built up.  

 
Oldfart Chief Commissioner

Location: Right base for BK 11R

Canberra certainly has its share of foggy mornings. It has an instrument landing system (ILS) on runway 35 (Sydney has them on all runways) which enables precision runway approaches down to about a 200 ft decision height in 800 metres horizontal visibility, so it has to be reasonably thick fog to shut it down. (Those minima might be even better now) 

Sydney has fairly elaborate low visibility taxying guidance and runway incursion prevention systems. Automated landings are actually less problematic, in many ways, than taxying in thick fog, especially if you also want to maintain intense aircraft movement levels. AFAIK Canberra could be further developed in that regard.

You can reach a point of course when the fog is so thick it can affect surface transport serving the airport almost as much as the air traffic. There's a few good Youtube videos of low vis ILS approaches in Canberra and Wikipedia have good gen on ILS if anyone is interested.

As for a rail link to the airport, I suggest that might either come in from the north down the western side of the airport and around to the terminal area (then possibly on to Queanbeyan or Kingston); or via a new fast corridor through the hills into Queanbeyan, then swing around to the airport as its terminus.

 
VRT327 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Seymour, Victoria

Yes, Canberra does still have many days in winter when the departures are delayed until after midday due to fog, even with the ILS on the primary runway (30/12 is a tad short with no expansion options).

One runway seems a little underdone for Sydney's second airport, I suppose they could put in a parallel 35, but that would mean the removal of the PM's new VIP flight hanger and of course would attract even more condemnation from the residence of Jerrabomberra, who would then be under the flight path of both runways.

I doubt that the train line for the HST will come in through Queanbeyan, this being due to the hills to the east of Qbn/Cnbr being too steep for trains with the exception of the Malongalo Gorge. This path has major speed restrictions due to the steep unstable cuttings and would be an interesting upgrade to watch.

New Rail infrastructure in Canberra/Queanbeyan would be a dream come true, but I can not see the ACT government putting any money into it and the NSW government would be fighting their own constituents.

All the best,
Neil

 

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