Historic railway steams into business world (Canberra Times 03/09)

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appleby Deputy Commissioner

Location: South of the Tweed - In Canberra.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/historic-railway-steams-into-business-world-20120902-258qb.html

Like most romances, the one with rail can empty a wallet in a flash, which is why steam train enthusiasts have turned their love affair into a business. Income from hauling empty rolling stock to and from repairers will fund long haul steam train journeys from Canberra for an international tourist market. The Australian Railway Historical Society's ACT division, which turns over $1 million annually, cannot afford steep maintenance and insurance costs which have sent other heritage groups, including the iconic Zig Zag Railway, to the wall. ......

''Overseas heritage operators are dovetailing into the commercial sector, filling in gaps for commercial operators, helping them, not competing with them, on the mainstream commercial operators,'' he said. The ACT division's first customer is the Chicago Freight Car Leasing Co, which has a 10- year lease on Goulburn Railway Workshops, where it maintains some of its $350 million fleet of locomotives and wagons. The society also earns several thousand dollars providing ticketing services for CountryLink at Queanbeyan, and receives substantial support from the NSW Government to meet its public liability insurance of $250 million. As a commercial operator it will turn over several million annually, but must pay its own insurance. For rolling stock alone this will come to more than $100,000 annually. Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/historic-railway-steams-into-business-world-20120902-258qb.html#ixzz25M2zdP26/quote

- A user
 
Valvegear Minister for Railways

Location: Norda Fittazroy



 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.


''There's huge interest internationally for the Garrett style of engine - it  is two engines in one,'' Mr Anderson said.


''We could go to Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide, all over the shop with this  particular engine.''

Please tell them to stop saying things like that; it makes me go weak at the knees just thinking about a 60 class steaming towards Melbourne. 
 
allambee Chief Train Controller

On a Churchill scholarship studying rail heritage in the United States, Britain, Canada, and New Zealand

- News Limited Article



All sponsored by the NSW Office of Rail Heritage.
I recall there was a person who had some input in the 3801 boiler fiasco was a also a Churchill recipient who studied rail heritage in those same countries.



 
BP4417 Deputy Commissioner

Location: Launceston, Tasmania

All sponsored by the NSW Office of Rail Heritage.
I recall there was a person who had some input in the 3801 boiler fiasco was a also a Churchill recipient who studied rail heritage in those same countries.
- A user


I can asure you that the particular person you refer to had no input into the new build 3801 boiler during its design or at the construction stage. You should check your information that it is indeed factual not an assumption.
 
TheFeralLine Locomotive Fireman


 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.


- Valvegear



Railtrail UK have pencilled in a tour Downunder in Sept 2013 involving the Garrett, (and also Puffing Billy, Bellarine, Castlemaine and Thirlmere etc).


 
allambee Chief Train Controller



I can asure you that the particular person you refer to had no input into the new build 3801 boiler during its design or at the construction stage. You should check your information that it is indeed factual not an assumption.
-


You might well be right, as I cannot rationally explain Railcorps tender assessment procedures and I don't think that person is a chartered design engineer.






 
Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM


 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.

''There's huge interest internationally for the Garrett style of engine - it  is two engines in one,'' Mr Anderson said.

''We could go to Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide, all over the shop with this  particular engine.''

Please tell them to stop saying things like that; it makes me go weak at the knees just thinking about a 60 class steaming towards Melbourne. 

- Valvegear



Tempt fate by donating to the project?

 
a6et Minister for Railways


 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.


- Valvegear



Railtrail UK have pencilled in a tour Downunder in Sept 2013 involving the Garrett, (and also Puffing Billy, Bellarine, Castlemaine and Thirlmere etc).



- TheFeralLine



What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no garretts here in Australia.

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.

 
Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM


 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.


- Valvegear



Railtrail UK have pencilled in a tour Downunder in Sept 2013 involving the Garrett, (and also Puffing Billy, Bellarine, Castlemaine and Thirlmere etc).



- TheFeralLine



What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no garretts here in Australia.

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.

- a6et



There are garrets in Australia. My mate has one in his car, a T28 I think.

 
a6et Minister for Railways




 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.


- Valvegear


Railtrail UK have pencilled in a tour Downunder in Sept 2013 involving the Garrett, (and also Puffing Billy, Bellarine, Castlemaine and Thirlmere etc).


- TheFeralLine


What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no garretts here in Australia.

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.
- a6et


There are garrets in Australia. My mate has one in his car, a T28 I think.
- Jajb94


We are talking about steam locomotives in a car? 8)
 
Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM


 From the same article:-  "The society is restoring a monster Beyer-Garratt 60-class steam engine  weighing 260 tonnes. As the largest locomotive ever to run in Australia, it is  bound to generate  intense interest among international steam buffs.


- Valvegear



Railtrail UK have pencilled in a tour Downunder in Sept 2013 involving the Garrett, (and also Puffing Billy, Bellarine, Castlemaine and Thirlmere etc).



- TheFeralLine



What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no garretts here in Australia.

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.

- a6et



There are garrets in Australia. My mate has one in his car, a T28 I think.

- Jajb94



We are talking about steam locomotives in a car? 8)

- a6et



I like the way you think.

 
Valvegear Minister for Railways

Location: Norda Fittazroy
Tempt fate by donating to the project?
- Jajb94


Fair call, but it's difficult to donate to every good project.

Being a Victorian, my donating tends to be done here.
 
Serviceton_Kev Chief Commissioner

Location: Fecking here!

Billy Puffing (Puffing Billy) has G 42.

 
Foamer GEEWONG

Location: Geelong

Bellarine should get G33 at some stage.

 
TheFeralLine Locomotive Fireman



What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no peter garretts here in Australia, at least not after what he did to the Traveston Dam. Run out of town he was..

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.[/quote]

The great great grandparents of Herbert William Garratt spelt their name as Garrett, which is the original derivation from the Norman name Gerard which itself was derived from the Germanic Gerhard. Garrard, Garrat, Jarrett, Garrold, and Jeeold share the same derivation as deviations from Garrett and its original Normanic/ Germanic origins.

 
a6et Minister for Railways



What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no peter garretts here in Australia, at least not after what he did to the Traveston Dam. Run out of town he was..

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.

- TheFeralLine



The great great grandparents of Herbert William Garratt spelt their name as Garrett, which is the original derivation from the Norman name Gerard which itself was derived from the Germanic Gerhard. Garrard, Garrat, Jarrett, Garrold, and Jeeold share the same derivation as deviations from Garrett and its original Normanic/ Germanic origins.[/quote]

There are so many names that have variations to those of today where the route word had such changes from French, German & many other European sources, likewise the addition or deletion of Mac, or Mc, O' in Irish & Scottish names has been subject to many families over the centuries.

That said, the name of the fellow who did give the name to our 60cl, was such person whom you say, that being Herbet William Garratt, it also applied to the French built versions, which the spelling of Garratt, & not Garrett, or other similar title.  Go to any railway in the world that operated these articulated types & they were all deemed as Garratt.  Thus if the fellow who invented these engines name was gerrett or what ever other name he actually was called, then it would be appropriate to call them by that name.

The problem is that the majority of people are too lazy when it comes to proper pronounciation these days, & that is where the use of an E instead of A comes in to play for these engines.

Its no different then those who seem to be so infatuated with other countries terminologies for locomotives that they use them instead of what is & has been the norm here in Australia for many years, & generally applied from the beginnings of the railways here.

 
a6et Minister for Railways



What is the garrett they are using I gather they would be bringing one in from overseas as there is no peter garretts here in Australia, at least not after what he did to the Traveston Dam. Run out of town he was..

I do know that the ARHS Canberra Division is restoring a GARRATT #6029 though.

- TheFeralLine



The great great grandparents of Herbert William Garratt spelt their name as Garrett, which is the original derivation from the Norman name Gerard which itself was derived from the Germanic Gerhard. Garrard, Garrat, Jarrett, Garrold, and Jeeold share the same derivation as deviations from Garrett and its original Normanic/ Germanic origins.

- a6et



There are so many names that have variations to those of today where the route word had such changes from French, German & many other European sources, likewise the addition or deletion of Mac, or Mc, O' in Irish & Scottish names has been subject to many families over the centuries.

That said, the name of the fellow who did give the name to our 60cl, was such person whom you say, that being Herbet William Garratt, it also applied to the French built versions, which the spelling of Garratt, & not Garrett, or other similar title.  Go to any railway in the world that operated these articulated types & they were all deemed as Garratt.  Thus if the fellow who invented these engines name was gerrett or what ever other name he actually was called, then it would be appropriate to call them by that name.

The problem is that the majority of people are too lazy when it comes to proper pronounciation these days, & that is where the use of an E instead of A comes in to play for these engines.

Its no different then those who seem to be so infatuated with other countries terminologies for locomotives that they use them instead of what is & has been the norm here in Australia for many years, & generally applied from the beginnings of the railways here.

- salty21



A Bit of change the subject here I thought that this was about ACT - ARHS going commercial or am I wrong! Does any body know any more about the commercialisation  of the ACT - ARHS ??

[/quote]

I would imagine that the the ARHS has a desire to go commercial, at least based on the news article, & as one reads the news article, there is mention of the garratt being overhauled, which is a spelling mistake typically found within the journalist arena.

That said, there would be nothing stopping the ARHS Canberra division going commercial & using some any type of loco in its fleet providing the work is there, commercially viable, & they are accredited for it.  They are also working on getting one of the 44cl going, which may prove to be less a hassle in getting commercial work for it, rather than the garratt.

I would think therer would be some issues with the garratt being used on commercial work under certain conditions, & that especially applies to it working through single line tunnels, owing to the existance of a Federal Industrial Commision ruling prohibiting them from working through such tunnels.  & that may be just one of the problems associated with it.

 
Jajb94 Deputy Commissioner

Location: In a BAM


The only reason for the ARHS (ACT division) to undertake some forms of commercial work is to fund the restoration, maintainance and perservation of the Heritage rolling stock, and associated equipment (e.g. signaling, small exhibits, and written resources.)  As our current passenger train trips only provide just enough to keep them running, and don't really allow for restoration of other items.
Having said this the ARHS ACT still relies heavily on donations for specific projects, for example, 6029, 1210's wheel repairs and the CPH railmotors.








Please note, these are my views and opinions only, and do not represent the views of the ARHS ACT or other organisations.

 
a6et Minister for Railways


The only reason for the ARHS (ACT division) to undertake some forms of commercial work is to fund the restoration, maintainance and perservation of the Heritage rolling stock, and associated equipment (e.g. signaling, small exhibits, and written resources.)  As our current passenger train trips only provide just enough to keep them running, and don't really allow for restoration of other items.
Having said this the ARHS ACT still relies heavily on donations for specific projects, for example, 6029, 1210's wheel repairs and the CPH railmotors.








Please note, these are my views and opinions only, and do not represent the views of the ARHS ACT or other organisations.

- Jajb94




Well said Jajb 94

- salty21



Dare I suggest that if the reference from Salty is based on my comments, I would not think what I said is opposite to that need. In fact I believe that it is probably the only real option for a sustainable future, in order to keep the fleet as well as the other items in operational condition.

The amount of donations that are certainly what is keeping things operational & in restoration works is very commendable & does show that there is a very viable future, yet I also do not think that donations alone can provide the future assurance that will be needed on an ongoing basis, the fact of the costs to get 6029 to the stage that it is now, & then to get her back into operation is but part of the ongoing expense for her operations.

I had around 9 years as a fireman working on garratts, & in the early years I fired them at least weekly, & often more, even in their last couple of years in regular service, I worked on them probably on a fortnightly basis between Gosford & BMD & return, with that I realise the amount of just coal & water that they consumed in both ex works condition as well as downright worn out, those costs alone in this day & age are going to be a huge burden on ARHS Canberra.

The other aspects is that as I have followed the blog & with other reports that I have received, the dedicated work of those involved in her restoration is commendable at the very least, but I also notice that not all of them are young, & there is the need for ongoing training of the younger members in order to keep the fleet operating. These items are but the tip of the iceberg in what will be the ongoing needs, such items as skills are learnt in the practicle world, but they also need the finances behind them, thus the aspect to look for commercial work is a sensible one as that will be the area where there will be the opportunity to gain more finances than donations could provide.

Therefore, I am one that hopes that the restoration work will not be a short lived event, & it would be great to see all the locomotives that are under the care of ARHS Canberra back in operating conditions & being income generated.  I also would love to have been part of the work, but my health & distance to Canberra does not allow for it, likewise I can thank the working on garratts, along with other steam locomotives & 1st generation deisels as the primary reason why I have severe hearing loss/industrial deafness these days, which even top range compensation paid for hearing aides do not do a heck of a lot to eleviate the hearing problems.

 
Xgentric Chief Commissioner

Just as an aside, if I may add to a6et's last comment, it wasn't just the first generation diesels that had very high potential hearing damage for crews. When I was 'on the job', my workmates thought I was a bit odd for always wearing good quality earmuffs whenever I went into the engine room, or simply to change ends. And the 46's were also very noisy, with very loud fans. Through the Union, I strongly suggested that the employer (NSW Freight Rail) consider issuing all enginemen with earmuffs, but this was refused - it seemed that they would rather pay out any hearing loss claims. However, later they did issue them, but the earmuffs weren't particularly popular with crews, and maybe even considered a bit 'wimpy'. But ear plugs were always available. As a result, my hearing is still quite good, apart from tinnitus in one ear.

Many years ago (1980?) I had the privilege of travelling behind 6029 on an ACT ARHS trip into Vic, as far as Wangaratta, and we were met along the way by a local tour train hauled by a K class, (K153, I think it was).  A few spirited parallel runs were enjoyed by all. It must have been very tempting to continue on to Melbourne! But it wasn't to be. This time, at least!

I would dearly love to see 6029 and 1210 (with its wheel problems repaired) at the next Maitland Steamfest, as examples of the newest and oldest steam locos still in service. Now they would really be sights to see!

 
a6et Minister for Railways

Just as an aside, if I may add to a6et's last comment, it wasn't just the first generation diesels that had very high potential hearing damage for crews. When I was 'on the job', my workmates thought I was a bit odd for always wearing good quality earmuffs whenever I went into the engine room, or simply to change ends. And the 46's were also very noisy, with very loud fans. Through the Union, I strongly suggested that the employer (NSW Freight Rail) consider issuing all enginemen with earmuffs, but this was refused - it seemed that they would rather pay out any hearing loss claims. However, later they did issue them, but the earmuffs weren't particularly popular with crews, and maybe even considered a bit 'wimpy'. But ear plugs were always available. As a result, my hearing is still quite good, apart from tinnitus in one ear. Many years ago (1980?) I had the privilege of travelling behind 6029 on an ACT ARHS trip into Vic, as far as Wangaratta, and we were met along the way by a local tour train hauled by a K class, (K153, I think it was). A few spirited parallel runs were enjoyed by all. It must have been very tempting to continue on to Melbourne! But it wasn't to be. This time, at least! I would dearly love to see 6029 and 1210 (with its wheel problems repaired) at the next Maitland Steamfest, as examples of the newest and oldest steam locos still in service. Now they would really be sights to see!

- Xgentric

In steam days the use of ear muffs were not permitted, owing to safety issues, of not being able to hear certain aspects of train working, a reason behind the stupid sound tubes on the garratts for hearing of detonators, & why so many of them had cotton waste of paper stuffed into the cab megophone section in order to save our eardrums.  I dread the impact on hearing with the much stronger & louder crackers I hear these days going off if they are not muffled on 6029. Even the sound of the cylinder cocks open when starting a train was above todays acceptable sound levels.

I agree in regards to the engine room noises, when the Dynamic brake equipment was removed from the Mk 1 44cl there was no sound proofing to compensate for the deadening affect of the equipment behind the Electrical cabinet, a reason why so many crews reverted to # 2 end leading.

There was a lot of representations made by the AFULE in regards to noise, & the muffs were rejected for obvious reasons, & why the railways accepted or agreed for the soft spongy ear plugs for use in the engine rooms, in the same way as fitters were allowed to use them, prior to that only those working in the load boxes were allowed muffs. 

 

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