Major train accident Dandenong South (First Pic)

 
  DavidWMinter Beginner

Location: Bundoora, Victoria
For reference, does anyone have the carriage numbers involved in this incident?
"monday"


Monday,

from what i have seen on the news reports and available photos, the leading set was 306M - 1003T - 305M and the trailing set was 589M - 1022T - 583M. from the 39 second video you can quite clearly make out that the M car has the disc brake whereas the T car has the tread brakes.
"DavidWMinter"

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  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
Thankfully, no more victims were found underneath the wreckage. There was a very real concern yesterday evening about the possibility of such.
  Highrise Assistant Commissioner

Not really a priority right now I know, but taking a look at that lead car in a couple of photos I've seen, I can't make out if its bent or not. If it is, have they got a spare car to replace it?
  Camster Chief Commissioner

Location: Geelong
I can remember when the line opened and abbotts road was not even sealed. The road is now an important road. There is nothing wrong with the crossing, but the level of traffic has soared since the line opened. People become inpatient and obviously do stupid things.
  heisdeadjim Chief Commissioner

Not really a priority right now I know, but taking a look at that lead car in a couple of photos I've seen, I can't make out if its bent or not. If it is, have they got a spare car to replace it?
"Highrise"


I had the same thought. It's bent. And AFAIK no spares.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
Not really a priority right now I know, but taking a look at that lead car in a couple of photos I've seen, I can't make out if its bent or not. If it is, have they got a spare car to replace it?
"Highrise"
I had the same thought. It's bent. And AFAIK no spares.
"heisdeadjim"
Depends on the structural integrity.

There theoretically are side panels, and three out of use Comenges (671M, 1186T and 672M).  If they wanted to, they might.  

Carriages have been repaired, some repeatedly - 570M was severely damaged at Holmesglen and again at Craigieburn, yet was repaired. 569M has a noticeable bend in it; 320M was repaired after the Syndal collision, as was a number of other cars - 503M from the Footscray collision, 634M and 1167T after the Epping collision, and even one of the cars involved in the current incident: 589M (it hit a tractor at speed at South Kensington) and most spectacularly of all, 394M after the second Broadmeadows runaway.

Having said that, after being rear-ended at Officer, 388M was less damaged than all of them, and the only remnants now live in Werribee in a snack bar.

Another factor may be who pays for the repairs.

X37 was severely damaged in Echuca after colliding with a loaded gravel truck.  As I understood it, the only reason it was repaired was due to the trucking companies insurance footing the bill.
  RailwayBus Locomotive Driver



Now I shall get onto the topic 'Are the Railways themselves to blame for this'?

I say yes in two ways.
#1, Why was that cargo not being sent by train, why was it on a truck?

#2, A passenger station would be handy at that location, and would have cut the speed of the train down by quite a bit. A simple $1.5m platform, much like the new one down Warnambool way, is all you need to do.

So, the railways are to blame 'double time' for this one in my mind.
"tranzitjim"


The above quoted passage, is the most retarded, mind-destroying piece of text I have ever seen. 

Not only is it so incredibly unreasonable, it is 100 times beyond "offensive". 

Tranzit Jim. I don't know what species you are, but it has now become evident beyond any reasonable doubt, that you are clearly not human. 
  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
I can remember when the line opened and abbotts road was not even sealed. The road is now an important road. There is nothing wrong with the crossing, but the level of traffic has soared since the line opened. People become inpatient and obviously do stupid things.
"Camster"

If this level crossing is to be eventually eliminated - surely it would make more sense, and be far less disruptive, to complete the link nearby between Pound Rd West and Remington Drive including an overpass? The Abbotts Rd level crossing could then be closed and the two ends of the road could be converted to cul-de-sacs, as Pound Rd West and Remington Drive are now.
  bingley hall Minister for Railways

Location: Last train to Skaville
I can remember when the line opened and abbotts road was not even sealed. The road is now an important road. There is nothing wrong with the crossing, but the level of traffic has soared since the line opened. People become inpatient and obviously do stupid things.
"Camster"

Traffic level is irrelevant.

If these impatient people were stuck at traffic lights on a busy road would they go around the traffic and drive through a red light?

Don't think so.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I can remember when the line opened and abbotts road was not even sealed. The road is now an important road. There is nothing wrong with the crossing, but the level of traffic has soared since the line opened. People become inpatient and obviously do stupid things.
"Camster"

If this level crossing is to be eventually eliminated - surely it would make more sense, and be far less disruptive, to complete the link nearby between Pound Rd West and Remington Drive including an overpass? The Abbotts Rd level crossing could then be closed and the two ends of the road could be converted to cul-de-sacs, as Pound Rd West and Remington Drive are now.
"DirtyBallast"


It looks as if that is what was intended when Remington Drive was created, and it would make sense.
  tranzitjim Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Police are on the lookout for a 'white kenworth truck'.

Said to have overtaken the accident truck only moments before the crash happened.
  heisdeadjim Chief Commissioner

@ bingley hall.

I have been waiting at the Scoresby Road level crossing in Melbourne, exiting Power Road turning left. Had red arrow and booms just started.

Your stereotypical bogn an a ute behind me. Moved into the right turn lanes, disobeyed the red light there, disobeyed the No Left Turn sign and ran the level crossing.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Now I shall get onto the topic 'Are the Railways themselves to blame for this'?

I say yes in two ways.
#1, Why was that cargo not being sent by train, why was it on a truck?

#2, A passenger station would be handy at that location, and would have cut the speed of the train down by quite a bit.  A simple $1.5m platform, much like the new one down Warnambool way, is all you need to do.

So, the railways are to blame 'double time' for this one in my mind.
"tranzitjim"


#1. The cargo was on a truck because your local Woolies and Coles Supermarkets DON'T have a rail line running to their loading dock!

#2. Build a $1.5m passenger platform?????
Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to place a speed restriction on the line in that location ($100 sign vs $1.5m white elephant station (which incidently would INCREASE level crossing delays for those frustrated motorists!)

Matter of fact jim, why not make a campaign to turn all boom gates by 90 degrees and have them block the rail line each time a truck, bus, car or motorised scooter wants to pass?

Makes as much sense as your comments!
  Mr. Lane Chief Commissioner

Of note: this is the first fatality to be linked to a rail collision in the metropolitan area since 1976.
"Sir Thomas Bent"
I came here looking for this exact information, thanks. Is that statistic just for passengers or also drivers and is it for all types of trains running through the metro area as opposed to just suburban sparks? I was under the impression it was a MUCH longer time since a passenger had died in a metro area collision in a spark...I vaguely remember John of Melbourne stating something along those lines..
"Mr. Lane"
It's for all types of trains; I should have been clearer.

Leaving aside people in cars and pedestrians/trespassers, the last time that I can recall someone in a train being killed as a result of a collision in the greater Melbourne metropolitan region was in Laverton in 1976. An up country train, hauled by B61, travelled through a set of points at high speed, derailing and tipping several cars onto their side, with one woman dying as a result.

The last time a fatality occured with an electric train in Melbourne due to a collision was exactly fift years earlier: in Caulfield in 1926.

86 years is a long time; hopefully we keep having the same record - or better.
"Sir Thomas Bent"
Thanks for that! I had a feeling it was 80+ years. That IS a long time, and a statistic for the industry and its members to be proud of.
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
At risk of being labelled pedantic or worse it might be arguable that the 86-year stretch since the last fatality on board a spark could continue if the deceased is found to have in fact not passed away as a direct consequence of injuries received but rather from the consequences of the event which are probably (not definitively) linked such as suffering a heart attack.  Statistics are purely a number.  On a human level there has been a loss of life.  Full stop.

Without knowing the full circumstances as the report will be a long way off I am left to ponder just what it might take to persuade road vehicle drivers to obey relatively simple rules and signs.  We already have red light and speed cameras.  Perhaps the same kit at level crossings is overdue for installation?  It may not prevent a determined, ignorant, arrogant or simply suicidal driver from taking a risk but there is some evidence that they engender greater compliance at road intersections and at known speed-camera locations with a consequent drop in road trauma.

The cost would be very high.  The question is what price do we place on lives?  A suburban train may be carrying 1000 passengers all of whom are placed at immediate risk by the action (or failure to act) of one road vehicle driver.  So set the penalties to match the "crime" based on risk.  Rather than a slap on the wrist for failing to stop at a red traffic light (under $200 and 3 points in most cases) try a $1000 minimum fine and 11 points.  Two strikes and you'd be out.   If you're a serial idiot you might already have points on your licence meaning it would be lost for one offence.  And a court appearance on a charge of reckless endangerment to boot.

I'm not afraid to press for high penalties.  I don't want to become an innocent victim of one person's momentary madness.



  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
No worries, glad to help.

------------------------

tranzitjim: in the long line of idiotic things you've said on this forum, truly the most insensitive and stupid thing I have ever seen you type.



  DirtyBallast Chief Commissioner

Location: I was here first. You're only visiting.
At risk of being labelled pedantic or worse it might be arguable that the 86-year stretch since the last fatality on board a spark could continue if the deceased is found to have in fact not passed away as a direct consequence of injuries received but rather from the consequences of the event which are probably (not definitively) linked such as suffering a heart attack. Statistics are purely a number. On a human level there has been a loss of life. Full stop.
"Gwiwer"

You are not in a position to determine the actual cause of death. The truth will eventually be revealed, and when it is, you may be made to look foolish.

Just because the media said that when the victim was finally located that he was in a state of cardiac arrest, doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does.

Without knowing the full circumstances as the report....
"Gwiwer"
Exactly, so Shut T.F.U. 

You were the one calling for no-one to speculate back on page 3 of this thread, but here you are. Rolling Eyes

....will be a long way off I am left to ponder just what it might take to persuade road vehicle drivers to obey relatively simple rules and signs. We already have red light and speed cameras. Perhaps the same kit at level crossings is overdue for installation? It may not prevent a determined, ignorant, arrogant or simply suicidal driver from taking a risk but there is some evidence that they engender greater compliance at road intersections and at known speed-camera locations with a consequent drop in road trauma.
"Gwiwer"
You are giving the impression that the truck driver deliberately ignored the relevant road rules and safety systems in place at the crossing holus bolus.

What if, hypothetically, he was asleep at the wheel? This is NOT speculation of what actually happened, it is merely a possibility, but for some reason you did not mention it amongst the determined/ignorant/arrogant/suicidal labels that you place against truck drivers to reflect your inherent hatred of them.

Please, PLEASE, wait for the official inquest. In the meantime, stop holding your own.
  Sir Thomas Bent Minister for Railways

Location: Banned
Of note: this is the first fatality to be linked to a rail collision in the metropolitan area since 1976.
"Sir Thomas Bent"
I came here looking for this exact information, thanks. Is that statistic just for passengers or also drivers and is it for all types of trains running through the metro area as opposed to just suburban sparks? I was under the impression it was a MUCH longer time since a passenger had died in a metro area collision in a spark...I vaguely remember John of Melbourne stating something along those lines..
"Mr. Lane"
It's for all types of trains; I should have been clearer.

Leaving aside people in cars and pedestrians/trespassers, the last time that I can recall someone in a train being killed as a result of a collision in the greater Melbourne metropolitan region was in Laverton in 1976. An up country train, hauled by B61, travelled through a set of points at high speed, derailing and tipping several cars onto their side, with one woman dying as a result.

The last time a fatality occured with an electric train in Melbourne due to a collision was exactly fift years earlier: in Caulfield in 1926.

86 years is a long time; hopefully we keep having the same record - or better.
"Sir Thomas Bent"
Thanks for that! I had a feeling it was 80+ years. That IS a long time, and a statistic for the industry and its members to be proud of.
"Mr. Lane"


I'd also like to thank all the lazy journalists who seem to have published this statistic in the media after I put it up here.  It's not that hard to find out; and it's incorrect.  Laverton was in the greater metropolitan area when there was a fatality in 1976.  Might wanna correct that.



  Ballast_Plough Chief Commissioner

Location: Lilydale, Vic



Now I shall get onto the topic 'Are the Railways themselves to blame for this'?

I say yes in two ways.
#1, Why was that cargo not being sent by train, why was it on a truck?

#2, A passenger station would be handy at that location, and would have cut the speed of the train down by quite a bit. A simple $1.5m platform, much like the new one down Warnambool way, is all you need to do.

So, the railways are to blame 'double time' for this one in my mind.
"tranzitjim"


The above quoted passage, is the most retarded, mind-destroying piece of text I have ever seen.

Not only is it so incredibly unreasonable, it is 100 times beyond "offensive".

Tranzit Jim. I don't know what species you are, but it has now become evident beyond any reasonable doubt, that you are clearly not human.

"RailwayBus"


Mr. Bus - the website does attract the occasional special needs demographic who just don't conform to the same social norms that the rest of us do. Most of the regulars know who these are and just ignore them.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: Waiting for the sky to fall, the seas to rise... and seeing a train on the SSFL!

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/train-drivers-blame-motorists-ignoring-signals-20121105-28u3z.html

The palatable answer seems to be...

1. all level crossings eliminated

2. something in your car to let you know the lights are flashing (which you won't need any more after 1.)


 
  ChoooChoo Chief Train Controller

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria-police-seek-witnesses-release-footage-showing-traffic-near-dandenong-south-train-crash/story-e6frf7jo-1226510836614

CCTV of the crash (just out of frame).
"Bobman"


That video sent chills down my spine as I watched. I was expecting to see the last 3 carriages rebound due to the impact- did the crash occur further towards Cranbourne (and not too near the warehouse where the CCTV was positioned?)



  Bullucked Assistant Commissioner

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/train-drivers-blame-motorists-ignoring-signals-20121105-28u3z.html

The palatable answer seems to be...

1. all level crossings eliminated

2. something in your car to let you know the lights are flashing (which you won't need any more after 1.)


"cootanee"


And number 3. Put blinkers (as in horses) on all vehicles / drivers (the motorist kind) when approaching railway crossings therefore not being distracted by things beside the road. 
  ZH836301 Chief Commissioner

Location: BleakCity
If these impatient people were stuck at traffic lights on a busy road would they go around the traffic and drive through a red light?
"bing hall"

Quoted for justice.

We already have red light and speed cameras.  Perhaps the same kit at level crossings is overdue for installation?
"Gwiwer"

There's one on the Midland Hwy at Bagshot.

Bit of a money spinner too since it's set for 80km/h (the highway is 100km/h either side).
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere

You are giving the impression that the truck driver 
deliberately ignored the relevant road rules and safety systems
"DirtyBallast"

Nothing in my comment you quoted regarding level crossing protection and enforcement referred specifically to this incident.  I have not made any statement regarding cause of the incident under discussion.  If you choose to read that any other way, and from the abusive comment
shut T.F.U
"DirtyBallast"
also made I understand that you do, then so be it.  We are free to differ.



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