Opal Card Roll-out

 
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Just one question that I just thought about, is how would the Opal card work with the Airport link stations (International & Domestic) being that there is still a surcharge or "gate pass" fee to paid on top of the normal cityrail fares for utilising these stations??
"mboi84"


Again, this is a relatively straightforward exception to handle. Assuming only single-use GatePasses (ignoring weekly GatePasses for now), all there needs to be is an add-on charge deducted on the spot when entering or exiting Domestic and International.

Weekly passes complicate matters, though, but you could run a check to see if an entry/exit at Domestic/International was made in the last 7 days; if so, deduct the difference between the weekly and single charge, and do not levy any extra charge for the remainder of that week.

(This is based on the weekly GatePass being only marginally more expensive than the single. To send my mother off at the airport, I purchased a weekly GatePass and proceeded to visit International several times while it was still valid, just for the hell of it.)

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  albert3801 Chief Commissioner

Location: Werrington, NSW
Redfern platform 10 is used as a linkage between the main concourse and the Australian Technology Park exit (near the old locomotive workshop). So at the concourse side end, a coin-only ticket machine and a barrier are set to avoid fare evasion.
"lyjjimmy"


Just to clarify, because I don't hang around Redfern, I understand that because Platform 10 is essentially now part of the concourse unpaid area, the idea is to seal Platform 10 from the concourse paid area, thus in effect reversing the usual idea of the platform being part of the paid area?
"Watson374"


That is correct.
  lyjjimmy Station Master

Redfern platform 10 is used as a linkage between the main concourse and the Australian Technology Park exit (near the old locomotive workshop). So at the concourse side end, a coin-only ticket machine and a barrier are set to avoid fare evasion.
"lyjjimmy"


Just to clarify, because I don't hang around Redfern, I understand that because Platform 10 is essentially now part of the concourse unpaid area, the idea is to seal Platform 10 from the concourse paid area, thus in effect reversing the usual idea of the platform being part of the paid area?
"Watson374"


Maybe possible, if they move the ticket machine and barrier to the other end of the platform then everything's done. But that makes the authority harder to monitor and control whether a passenger validate their ticket or not at the entrance unless they appoint a staff there.
  albert3801 Chief Commissioner

Location: Werrington, NSW
Redfern platform 10 is used as a linkage between the main concourse and the Australian Technology Park exit (near the old locomotive workshop). So at the concourse side end, a coin-only ticket machine and a barrier are set to avoid fare evasion.
"lyjjimmy"


Just to clarify, because I don't hang around Redfern, I understand that because Platform 10 is essentially now part of the concourse unpaid area, the idea is to seal Platform 10 from the concourse paid area, thus in effect reversing the usual idea of the platform being part of the paid area?
"Watson374"


Maybe possible, if they move the ticket machine and barrier to the other end of the platform then everything's done. But that makes the authority harder to monitor and control whether a passenger validate their ticket or not at the entrance unless they appoint a staff there.
"lyjjimmy"


If there is a ticket gate that is operating then it has to be staffed to avoid people being trapped in the station due to faulty ticket etc.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Opal reader mounts on STA bus 1102. Note how two readers have been installed for each doorway; I speculate based on past foreign experience that this indicates Opal users will need to touch in and touch out when riding buses.

Front door, first reader (next to driver).


Front door, second reader (left luggage rack).


Rear door, both readers (vestibule stanchions).


Opal Gangnam Style!

  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Where is the screen?  Or lights?
  topher1976 Train Controller

Location: Mill Park, Vic

[quote="Watson374"]

Opal readers on STA bus 1102. Note how two readers have been installed for each doorway; I speculate based on past foreign experience that this indicates Opal users will need to touch in [i]and[/i] touch out when riding buses.

[i]Front door, first reader (next to driver).[/i]
[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/601255_590022121023802_444718843_n.jpg[/img]

[i]Front door, second reader (left luggage rack).[/i]
[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/72805_590021874357160_444038676_n.jpg[/img]

[i]Rear door, both readers (vestibule stanchions).[/i]
[img]http://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/486009_590021967690484_433950355_n.jpg[/img]

[size=10:5674752f05]Opal Gangnam Style![/size:5674752f05]

[/quote]

You have to tag on/off in Perth, and Touch on/off on Vic buses as well. The only place I know where you do not have to touch off is on Melbourne trams where you are only travelling in Zone 1. (If in Zone 2 on a tram, you still touch on and off.)

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Where is the screen? Or lights?
"simonl"


In my haste to stick them up, I've forgotten to state that they're the mounts only. /facepalm/ I've edited it to state specifically that the photos are of the mounts only.


You have to tag on/off in Perth, and Touch on/off on Vic buses as well. The only place I know where you do not have to touch off is on Melbourne trams where you are only travelling in Zone 1. (If in Zone 2 on a tram, you still touch on and off.)
"topher1976"



Of course. However, in Hong Kong, buses only have Octopus readers on the front door, and not the rear door.

  topher1976 Train Controller

Location: Mill Park, Vic



Where is the screen? Or lights?
"simonl"


In my haste to stick them up, I've forgotten to state that they're the mounts only. /facepalm/ I've edited it to state specifically that the photos are of the mounts only.


You have to tag on/off in Perth, and Touch on/off on Vic buses as well. The only place I know where you do not have to touch off is on Melbourne trams where you are only travelling in Zone 1. (If in Zone 2 on a tram, you still touch on and off.)
"topher1976"



Of course. However, in Hong Kong, buses only have Octopus readers on the front door, and not the rear door.

"Watson374"


Ah ok.

  Encompass Beginner


From RailCorps internal newsletter.

Opal card roll-out for rail customers in 2013

The Opal card Customer Trial will start mid-year; initially at stations on the City Circle and Eastern Suburbs line.

As the Customer Trial continues, Opal card will be progressively rolled out to more stations and we will keep you updated in What’s News.

While Opal preparatory work continues, our achievements to date include:

preparatory works completed at about 180 stations

639 interim Opal reader poles being installed at ungated stations

infrastructure provision for more than 780 Opal card readers installed

Ferries’ Customer Trial update

The Opal card Customer Trial continues to operate well on the Neutral Bay ferry service. More than 200 ferry customers registered for an Opal card before the trial started on 7 December 2012 and are now using the Opal card successfully.

Our staff at the Transport Information Centre have done a great job answering customer questions.

Early results of the trial show that:

customers are getting used to using their Opal cards to tap on and tap off at Opal card readers

ferries staff are reporting overall positive customer feedback

the next step in the rollout is to extend the Opal card Customer Trial to the Manly ferry service.

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

How are CityRail fares supposed to be levied when it appears that some stations will have readers and others won't?

We had this problem in Kuala Lumpur, whereby some stations on the STAR LRT had Touch n Go readers and some didn't, leading to the rather vexing issue of having touched in and ridden to one's destination only to discover one couldn't touch out.

  jaseee Chief Train Controller




How are CityRail fares supposed to be levied when it appears that some stations will have readers and others won't?

We had this problem in Kuala Lumpur, whereby some stations on the STAR LRT had Touch n Go readers and some didn't, leading to the rather vexing issue of having touched in and ridden to one's destination only to discover one couldn't touch out.

"Watson374"


I assume the trial would be for people traveling to/from Opal ready stations only. If you travel outside, then too bad.

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

I assume the trial would be for people traveling to/from Opal ready stations only. If you travel outside, then too bad.
"jaseee"


I am horrified. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

Why are you horrified? It is exactly the same for the current trial on a limited ferry route.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Why are you horrified? It is exactly the same for the current trial on a limited ferry route.
"Airvan99"


The Neutral Bay ferry is a single ferry route. Every single wharf it serves except Circular Quay is only served by that Neutral Bay service. I believe Wharf 4 is configured such that arrival is exit only; if so, the Neutral Bay trial is completely self-contained; if not, it is sufficiently so in order to nearly completly nullify the risk of Opal users touching in only to discover on arrival at their destination that they cannot touch out.

This won't be the case with the City Circle and Eastern Suburbs Railway. If these two areas are activated before the rest of the network, what happens to through passengers?

  jaseee Chief Train Controller

Other passengers use magnetic tickets? Just like they do today. Those tickets will still be around for years, even after Opal is around.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Other passengers use magnetic tickets? Just like they do today. Those tickets will still be around for years, even after Opal is around.
"jaseee"


I should have made it clearer that I know this is obvious, but thanks for pointing it out.

What I'm asking, though, is how will passengers know whether or not they can use Opal on a certain trip? How are passengers going to cope with the complication? We can put up endless notices listing what stations are Opal-active and make endless announcements that Opal is only usable for these trips, but many passengers won't listen, won't read and will touch in, make their trip and arrive at their destination only to discover they are unable to touch out, and should have bought a magnetic ticket. Oops.

Granted, the trial may be handled by passengers with above-average intelligence and behaviour, but I still see this as a serious issue.

  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned



Other passengers use magnetic tickets? Just like they do today. Those tickets will still be around for years, even after Opal is around.

"jaseee"


Wasn't there something (I can't remember now, but something about disposable Opal cards) indicating that they do not intend to have Opal and the current system operating side by side?



How are CityRail fares supposed to be levied when it appears that some stations will have readers and others won't?

We had this problem in Kuala Lumpur, whereby some stations on the STAR LRT had Touch n Go readers and some didn't, leading to the rather vexing issue of having touched in and ridden to one's destination only to discover one couldn't touch out.


If you had seen my videos, you may have noticed that the Wharf 5 opal readers work. (BOTH Going into the paid area and out of it, even though no ferries on Wharf 5 serve the Neutral Bay Line, although ferries from Neutral Bay may arrive on Wharf 5)

Recap:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQ9o9i5DhKc

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Perhaps I should skip the planespotting some time and go down to Circular Quay to interrogate Sydney Ferries personnel.

boxy, have you seen anyone touch into the wharf and then board a service not to Neutral Bay?

  liron Junior Train Controller




Other passengers use magnetic tickets? Just like they do today. Those tickets will still be around for years, even after Opal is around.
"jaseee"


I should have made it clearer that I know this is obvious, but thanks for pointing it out.

What I'm asking, though, is how will passengers know whether or not they can use Opal on a certain trip? How are passengers going to cope with the complication? We can put up endless notices listing what stations are Opal-active and make endless announcements that Opal is only usable for these trips, but many passengers won't listen, won't read and will touch in, make their trip and arrive at their destination only to discover they are unable to touch out, and should have bought a magnetic ticket. Oops.

Granted, the trial may be handled by passengers with above-average intelligence and behaviour, but I still see this as a serious issue.

"Watson374"


If (going from a city circle/eastern suburbs station to another city circle/eastern suburbs station)
    you can use Opal Card
else
    use some other ticket

  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

If (going from a city circle/eastern suburbs station to another city circle/eastern suburbs station)


you can use Opal Card
else
use some other ticket
"liron"



How do we program this if/else statement into the passengers? Opal journeys will start blind and rely on touching out to deduct the correct fare. Starting a trip blind means you can't throw an error when you start because the system doesn't know where you're going.

  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller


Watson, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Apparentally there are about 200 people in the ferry trial. Part of the selection process is that they understood that it was a trial and they knew the limitations. If the ESR and the CC are added to the trial area only people whose journeys start and end at a trial station would consider an opal card. For 99.99% of the public they will continue to use the old system till opal goes live.

The system is being set up so that both systems will run in parallel,maybe for a number of years.

Personally until all my journeys are covered by the trial area there is no point in me applying for a card.

  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Apparentally there are about 200 people in the ferry trial.... If the ESR and the CC are added to the trial area only people whose journeys start and end at a trial station would consider an opal card.
Airvan99

Boxythingy would suggest otherwise, as would Abesty.

Neither live anywhere near the City, and have made this clear on multiple occasions. Yet both have Opal Cards.
  boxythingy Chief Commissioner

Location: Banned
Watson, No I haven't seen anyone tap on at Wharf 5 to enter the paid area. Although it is possible to do so.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Watson, I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
"Airvan99"



I'm just being paranoid, with the justification of the KL experience.


Apparentally there are about 200 people in the ferry trial. Part of the selection process is that they understood that it was a trial and they knew the limitations. If the ESR and the CC are added to the trial area only people whose journeys start and end at a trial station would consider an opal card. For 99.99% of the public they will continue to use the old system till opal goes live.
"Airvan99"


What happens when a normally Bondi Junction to Town Hall commuter suddenly decides to go to Ashfield? Unlike the ferry trial, they're not forced to exit and re-enter on a magnetic ticket and will pass right through, so if they've touched in (which may occur by accident), they will remain touched in all the way to Ashfield, where there won't be live gates. The ferry routes are basically self-contained; the railway network is an intentional integrated whole. That is the difference.


The system is being set up so that both systems will run in parallel,maybe for a number of years.
"Airvan99"


Obviously - this has been the case for every system ever to apply smartcard ticketing, but such systems have never trialled only part of a railway at once, except the catastrophe in KL. All other instances have implemented the system across the entire railway before turning it 'live'.

Admittedly, in KL it was a live application of an existing card, but I remain highly suspicious of a partial trial.

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