421 vs 42 class

 
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Hi Guys
Advice needed.
Can anyone shed some light on the commonality of the 42 and 421 class?
Reason is that I am thinking of using a Lloyds 421 body on a Trainorama 42 chassis - mechanism,sideframes etc.
Has anyone tried this or have thoughts on whether this would be a viable option?

Any views would be helpful.

thanks
Chris

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  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Hi Guys
Advice needed.
Can anyone shed some light on the commonality of the 42 and 421 class?
Reason is that I am thinking of using a Lloyds 421 body on a Trainorama 42 chassis - mechanism,sideframes etc.
Has anyone tried this or have thoughts on whether this would be a viable option?

Any views would be helpful.

thanks
Chris
5711
Chris,

I've just Googled (via Wikipedia) and found that the main dimensions are very close:
                               421                  42
Length                    17.63m               17.68m
Width                       2.95m                 2.97m
Height                      4.23m                 4.27m

So far so good.....

However, I just checked on Hollywood Foundry's site:

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/NSW%20Locos.htm

It seems the bogies are not compatible if you want to be reasonably "correct".

The 421 has the bogies spaced at different distances: 5' 6.5" + 6' 7.5"
The 42 is equally spaced at 6' 7"

The bogie centres are similar at 35' for the 421, and 34' for the 42.

I seem to recall some people (on this forum) advising that the Trainorama 49 class bogies would be the closest approximation to the 421 class.

Good luck,

Roachie
  Dazz Deputy Commissioner

The 421 bogies are quite a bit shorter than the 42, and as stated the axle spacing is very different as are the side frames, as well as the fuel tanks.

But if the 42 Class chassis fits only you can make a decision if it bothers you or not.


  5711 Assistant Commissioner

Hey Roachie and Dazz...
Thanks for the information. I too checked the specs and glad I asked for a second opinion.
There seems to be quite a difference and more mods required than I originally expected.
It seems that it would be too costly to waste a traino mech when it is fairly in accurate.

Ok....

Back to the drawing board
  Chipps Chief Train Controller

Location: NSW
Hi Chris.

Perhaps an Austrains mech/sideframes etc under the Lloyds 421 body?

Or do you prefer to work with what's at hand?

Cheers
Cam
  a6et Minister for Railways

Hey Roachie and Dazz...
Thanks for the information. I too checked the specs and glad I asked for a second opinion.
There seems to be quite a difference and more mods required than I originally expected.
It seems that it would be too costly to waste a traino mech when it is fairly in accurate.

Ok....

Back to the drawing board
5711

Not 100% sure but, I have a feeling the same bogies used under the 49cl may have been used with the 421's. Do not have my books accessible ATM to check though.

In many ways they both had the same ride characteristics. Terrible!
  Geekboy Train Controller

Location: Banned
.
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

The Traino bogies are a very good match for the 421, and they look much better than the very two dimensional offerings from the much older Austrains bogies. You can put the Traino bogies into the Austrains chassis (have done this myself) and you can correct the height issue of the Austrains model while you're at it. There was some small degree of packing or modifying the bolster slightly - I can't recall offhand exactly what was involved - but if you are considering the project by using components, a little engineering and modelling shouldn't put you off. If you're really stuck I could disassemble my 421 and take some pics. At least by using the Lloyds body, Traino bogies you will end up with a superior model. Most consider the nose profile to be a major shortcoming of the Austrains model.
Geekboy

Yes I agree - the Austrains nose and front cab window profile is not the most accurate and I have 3 of these when next to my Traino' ones really lets it down.
It seems the 49 might be a better option....unfortunately they are not so easy to come by at the moment but heres hoping a re-release is down the track.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Yes I agree - the Austrains nose and front cab window profile is not the most accurate and I have 3 of these when next to my Traino' ones really lets it down.
It seems the 49 might be a better option....unfortunately they are not so easy to come by at the moment but heres hoping a re-release is down the track.
5711
Check the latest TOR newsletter I am pretty sure there is a mention of reruns & spares in it.

From what I understand is that following the gear issues that came with the 44cl, also found in other companies models & in the US as well, TOR were said to be working with the new factory to rectify the problems & would be re-running the various diesels over time including spares, would suggest you contact the shop to clarify this, & perhaps put an order in for the bogies if they are doing them in the future, but future is the key word I would think, just like a lot of model arrivals these days.
  Geekboy Train Controller

Location: Banned
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  bjviper Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisvegas
Aside from all the mentioned differences so far, the biggest problem you would have is the thickness of the milky bar body of the 421 fitting over the mech of the Traino 42.  If you were able to get the body onto the mech without breaking the former, it would bulge out a few mm at the least.  Thus you would need to remove a fair amount of material from the inside of the body, or alternately from the Traino chassis to make it fit.
  andrewstrains Assistant Commissioner

Location: Townsville, Where else but QLD
I did try to fit a Austrains 421 mech to a Llyods 421. I can tell you from experience it doe not work, unless you have a milling type machine to reduce the thinkness on the metal weight on the Austrains chassie.

I retro fitted the supplied K+M mech and it is suprisingly running quite well.

Andrew
  5711 Assistant Commissioner

5711, I currently have a spare pair of 49 bogies if you're interested.
"Geekboy"


Hi Geekboy....Pm me and we can discuss.

I managed to source a few Lloyd's  rtr 421's and they have the first gen K&M mechs which are ok except they have a few split axles due to not much running. They still run but not what I would call satisfactory.

I am going to offload my 3 Austrains examples now as the shape and overall look of the Lloyd's version is better.
  dthead Site Admin

Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi Geekboy....Pm me and we can discuss.

I managed to source a few Lloyd's  rtr 421's and they have the first gen K&M mechs which are ok except they have a few split axles due to not much running. They still run but not what I would call satisfactory.

I am going to offload my 3 Austrains examples now as the shape and overall look of the Lloyd's version is better.
5711
When you do offload them, do add that mech, bogies may be useful to repower the 1990's Powerline 48's......

Regards,
David Head

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