October 2013 Timetable

 
  Rad Locomotive Fireman

Location: Gerringong NSW
A new feature for South Coast services weekdays is the Port Kembla to Thirroul shuttles will extend all stops to Waterfall. This leaves Kiama services to skip Waterfall and run express Helensburgh to Thirroul

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  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Graph needs more dwell.
"bernerd"
Graph is approximate, methinks. I came up with the idea of using a graph like that quite some time ago, whereby time is on the x-axis and displacement (chaining distance) is on the y-axis. The graph seen here is very rough, as it only has station points and uses straight lines; nevertheless, it's still a very good way to plot stopping patterns and actually see how the separations expand and contract. I never got around to actually building such a graph because I couldn't shake the sense that I needed to form proper displacement curves using real data.
  grog Train Controller

I have done a bit of analysis on the Macarthur to City via East Hills services.

Once again, as per the Liverpool to City via Bankstown/Granville services, there is never an advantage in letting a service go by to catch a later service. No services from Campbelltown via Sydenham overtake services that run via the airport. This is very clever and should spread the load well between services.

Morning Peak:

Taking a sample of services that run from Campbelltown arriving at Central between 7:45am and 9:15am, the travel time is always between 52-54 minutes. This compares to most services being 55 minutes to 1 hour currently (with a single 52 minute service currently in existence leaving Campbelltown at 7:19 being the exception to that range).

From Holsworthy, there are 8tph taking between 32-35 minutes to Central. This is a very attractive option for the Liverpool area (if you can get a car space!). The current running time from Holsworthy at peak is between 35-40 minutes.

Off Peak:

In the off peak, there are 2 services an hour which run at 59 minutes between Campbelltown and Central, as well as 1 additional service an hour which takes just 50 minutes. These 50 minute services closely follow the arrival of Southern Highlands services at Campbelltown. The 2tph run on a clock face pattern arriving in the city every 30 minutes. The express services leave Campbelltown 6 minutes before one of these services, but arrives in the city perfectly in one of the 15 minute gaps. As mentioned earlier in the thread the other 15 minute gap is filled by a Kingsgrove starter, leaving the airport and City Circle at an all day 8 tph with the trains alternating between a 6 and 9 minute gap. There does not seem to be any reason (other than resources) that the Kingsgrove starters could not be extended as a second express service each hour to bring Campbelltown to the City up to 4tph all day. If they were to add this second hourly service the gap between services at the Campbelltown end would be 24 minutes/6 minutes, but at the city end they would arrive every 15 minutes.

Revesby Stoppers:

These services run at a clock face pattern every 15 minutes throughout the peak and the off peak. Kingsgrove is the big loser, now only being served by the stoppers. The travel time on the stoppers from Kingsgrove will be 25 minutes, vs 21 minutes now on the faster services.

Overall, this seems to be a pretty good timetable for those from the South West with a good speed up, and should help spread the load between services.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

I found another interesting tidbit in the draft timetable - it seems the Bankstown Line goes via Museum on weekends and on to Homebush, in contrast to the new via Town Hall norm on weekdays.

I'm guessing it makes things a little more simpler doing it like that on the weekend.
The change to the weekend timetable is minimal (except terminating trains at Lidcombe and Homebush).

I think they are using weekday as a test ground. If the result is satisfactory, the new timetable structure may apply to weekend in subsequent timetable revision.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

There does not seem to be any reason (other than resources) that the Kingsgrove starters could not be extended as a second express service each hour to bring Campbelltown to the City up to 4tph all day.
grog
I think a possible reason is not to upset Kingsgrove passengers too much.

They now get 4tph all stops + 2tph limited stops.
In the proposed timetable, it will reduce to 4tph all stops + 1tph limited stops.
  stupid_girl Assistant Commissioner

Thanks, but do you know what is meant "early" in this instance, as I can't see if a train is due at a certain time, that it would have an early after the time?
Newcastle Express
On weekend, trains from Newcastle often arrive at Strathfield 3-4 minutes early.
Then they have to wait until scheduled time to proceed to Central(i).
If they can proceed early, then passengers will save a few minutes!!!

I think Cityrail shouldn't wait till October. The 'e' policy should be adopted right now.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

It seems that few people talk about the situation of Homebush here.

Homebush will not get any westbound train (except late night).
In other words, passengers travelling from Homebush to the west (Flemington, Lidcombe, Auburn and all stations beyond) must backtrack to Strathfield and change train.
Cityrail may need to introduce a new clause to allow such travel pattern.
stupid_girl

Thanks. Interesting.

Unless I'm mistaken, to travel the short distance from Homebush to Sefton will require four trains. Haha

I can't see that happening. Almost seems like  complete a oversight.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Thanks. Interesting.

Unless I'm mistaken, to travel the short distance from Homebush to Sefton will require four trains. Haha

I can't see that happening. Almost seems like  complete a oversight.
Kamz
Or two trains going via Redfern.

You could probably count on one hand the number of people doing such a trip in a day.  It's unsurprising that there are some losers.
  Rails Chief Commissioner

I think without the skip-stopping the timetable would have been slower, as all trains have an identical stop everywhere pattern south of Chatswood.  They couldn't add more stops to the Central Coast patterns, and to for stability and to maintain the even separation they needed to ensure *some* local services skipped stop at least some stations.  There really isn't any other way to increase the numbers of train per hour at these stations without leaving 15 min holes anyway, and without leaving big holes at other stations as well.  From what I understand about station usage patterns, they've picked the least used stations to minimise the number of PAX who get a 15 min frequency (with the possible exception of Turramurra.  I'm not saying it's ideal, but it's much better than currently.  

Another feature of the TT is Hornsby gets a regular 5 min spaced frequency on the suburbans (some from the CC), which should - in theory - mean PAX there will be much more reluctant to get a "faster" interurban via Strathfield.  

The bottom line is 10 min frequency is extremely difficult to achieve and fully utilise line capacity because the minimum/standard separations are 3 minutes.  3 is co-prime with 9, 12 and 15.  At one stage the North Shore was tabled using something resembling a 12 min repetition, but that is incompatible with the 4tph on the ECL, and interacting the main north North of Hornsby.

As for mode changes, I know very little about bus interchanges on the North Shore, but if the bus feeders are adjusted to hub out of Gordon and Turramurra, that should further shift the load away from the less well used stations.
djf01


From what I can see I think that is the point though, the changes seem to be to benefit the Central Coast trains at the expense of the local train frequency, trying to separate the express and local services as they do on other lines (although I note different in the AM). The Central Coast commuters have long been complaining about too many stops on the North Shore line and they appear to have gotten their wish as far as possible (Lower North Shore is not possible) with express trains only stopping at Gordon. I guess I would have gone the other way due to the area being middle ring and the amount of high density housing being built around the stations. So having less express Coast services and more frequent local services but it is what it is, interesting considering BOF is the local member though! There has been a reasonable reduction in services in general since the ECRL came on line which ironically is when they started building huge numbers of units in Ku-Ring-Gai based solely on the excellent train line Smile This is despite the obvious issues with the area surrounding the main road route north out of Sydney.

Regarding the buses, TBH I didnt know much about them either but I couldnt understand why Turramurra seemed to have the requirement for more services and that is what I found. I believe that all the stations on the upper North Shore used to have bus links before the completion of the F3, however traffic congestion forced a reconfigure, e.g. the SAN Hospital used to have buses going to Warrawee station, St Ives to Pymble station etc but they now seem to centre the services on Gordon and Turramurra. I think Pymble and Wahroonga still have bus services but for specific purposes. I did read that Ku-Ring-Gai bus services have the lowest patronage in Sydney, I believe this is mainly because they get caught in traffic due to no room to place bus lanes etc and so no one uses them. This wont change in this area ever I dont think, its live close to rail or drive.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Overall, this seems to be a pretty good timetable for those from the South West with a good speed up, and should help spread the load between services.
grog
Thanks for your post, I tend to agree with you, but there's a few niggling aggravating points e.g. why not extend the Kingsgrove trains to Campbelltown and have a 4tph frequency there and/or have the faster trains stop at Kingsgrove so there is an 8tph frequency there.  The main other one is what is with the 7 minute dwell at Revesby O/B on weekends to let the Canberra Explorer through.  Couldn't it leave Central (i) earlier or later?


The addition is 1tph Kingsgrove and 1tph Campbelltown (separated by 1/2 hour from each other).
stupid_girl
Ok, thanks for the correction.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

600 series “S” and “K” sets may operate with an “A” set, as advertised on future Special Train Notices
Draft timetable
Huhh???
  bernerd Junior Train Controller

Er... Is there meant to be a question in there somewhere? The passage you quoted has nothing questionable that I can see.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

Or two trains going via Redfern.

You could probably count on one hand the number of people doing such a trip in a day.  It's unsurprising that there are some losers.
simonl

Catching four trains to travel five stations. I think that's more than a loss. Smile

Downright rude and unacceptable. Has to be fixed. Stop the South Line trains at Homebush.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Catching four trains to travel five stations. I think that's more than a loss. Smile

Downright rude and unacceptable. Has to be fixed. Stop the South Line trains at Homebush.
Kamz
Maybe they should stop at all stations Lidcombe to Redfern then.  There will always be some station that you need four trains to reach from Sefton otherwise.
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Huhh???
Newcastle Express
The train run numbers are also so changing, for example you won't have any 600 series runs now on Sector 3A.
  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
They're re-distributing the run numbers so what is the case now will likely not be the case come new timetable in October. The 600 series is expected to be taken by Tangaras on Sector 1 only while the A Sets (which currently use the 600 series) will be integrated with the rest of the suburban stock on Sectors 2 and 3.

May I ask, how many A Sets are they expecting to be in revenue service from when the new timetable commences in October?
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
They're re-distributing the run numbers so what is the case now will likely not be the case come new timetable in October. The 600 series is expected to be taken by Tangaras on Sector 1 only while the A Sets (which currently use the 600 series) will be integrated with the rest of the suburban stock on Sectors 2 and 3.

May I ask, how many A Sets are they expecting to be in revenue service from when the new timetable commences in October?
Aurora8

I would guestimate around 50-55 based on there current rate of coming online.
  Murasaki Chief Train Controller

Location: Going sideways... in carriage DET-9216 (>ω<)
Reply posted as a graphic, since Railpage's website is _really_ glitchy at the moment.
  D1566 Junior Train Controller

I would guestimate around 50-55 based on there current rate of coming online.
Blackadder
The way things are going that is a conservative guess. I believe set 47 was delivered to Auburn last week.
Slightly off topic, the Western line will see scheduled Waratahs service prior to the introduction of the new timetable.
  thefatcontroller Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney, Australia
I've noticed they're included the Cockatoo run which operates to Moss Val via Robertson, is this normal?

It's also on the tripview app...
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
I've noticed they're included the Cockatoo run which operates to Moss Val via Robertson, is this normal?

It's also on the tripview app...
"thefatcontroller"


Any train that uses the network must be taken into account for pathing purposes. I can't find the Cockatoo Run on the Tripview app though.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
I've noticed they're included the Cockatoo run which operates to Moss Val via Robertson, is this normal?

It's also on the tripview app...
"thefatcontroller"
Yes, it's definitely on the app. I know volunteers on that service who got yelled at by passengers at Hurstville who were not impressed that they could not board it, waving their phones and pointing to the run being on it.
  Piston Train Controller

So we have just spent millions of dollars building Platform 7 at Homebush, with no trains stopping there. The terminators will use the existing Platform 6.

And we have spent $140 million extending the four tracks from Kingsgrove to Revesby and only a few services a day (including the Melbourne XPT and Canberra Xplorers) will be using the new Mains?

I'm glad the designers of these white elephants didn't design the Harbour Bridge.

Maybe Gladys needs to clean out these planners and save further waste.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
So we have just spent millions of dollars building Platform 7 at Homebush, with no trains stopping there. The terminators will use the existing Platform 6.

And we have spent $140 million extending the four tracks from Kingsgrove to Revesby and only a few services a day (including the Melbourne XPT and Canberra Xplorers) will be using the new Mains?

I'm glad the designers of these white elephants didn't design the Harbour Bridge.

Maybe Gladys needs to clean out these planners and save further waste.
"Piston"


There will be quite a few trains in peak hour using the quad. In off peak, the Southern Highlands direct and about 1 suburban train an hour will be express from Holsworthy to Wolli Creek, which I'm almost certain will use the new mains.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
There will be quite a few trains in peak hour using the quad. In off peak, the Southern Highlands direct and about 1 suburban train an hour will be express from Holsworthy to Wolli Creek, which I'm almost certain will use the new mains.
"bowralcommuter"
On top of this, it's an exercise in future-proofing, allowing the locals to Revesby and the Airport line to be used as a separate line (e.g. in a metro project).

It's a bit like whining about how St Leonards has two platforms that don't even have tracks.

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