Spencer street St action is back

 
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
What's in a name?  That which we call a railway station by any other name would smell as sweet (or not, as the case may be - diesel fumes excepted).  At least, in those days there were helpful signs in the archaic toilets, such as "Do Not Spit", and "Please Adjust Your Dress Before Leaving".
Lad_Porter
Which are still in-situ at Flinders Street station..

Sponsored advertisement

  Fred Scuttle Junior Train Controller

Location: Point Clare, NSW
I daresay it will cost more than you imagine. It's not just a matter of changing over "some signage". There'd be a lot of back-end work you simply wouldn't think about or see.

Consider the following:

*Replacing every sign at Southern Cross to say Spencer Street.
*Reprogramming the PIDs and assorted information systems to say Spencer St and not Southern Cross
*Reprogramming the Myki systems so that it registers you at Spencer St and not Southern Cross
*Reprogramming the Vline ticketing system to reflect the change
*Reprogramming the PTV & Vline websites to reflect the change
*Ensuring every single system/facility/piece of paper in PTV/State Government refers to Spencer St and not Southern Cross. (this is a BIG cost item)
*Reprinting and replacing network maps at every station in Melbourne
*Reprinting and replacing network maps on each train carriage (though admittedly, these need updating in a lot of cases anyway; some are 4 years old currently)
*Reprinting and replacing each printed timetable posted up around Melbourne
*An advertising campaign to alert the public that the name has changed.

God only knows what else that I can't think of from the top of my head. Having worked in Government before today, I know how these seemingly small things can cost an awful lot to actually implement. Government projects  A ballpark figure, I would say the cost of changing the station name would be somewhere in the region of $2 mill, all said and done. I'm sure that $2 mill could be better invested somewhere else!
raudteejaam

If, as you say, the cost of rebranding Southern Cross back to Spencer Street is approximately $2m, it could be argued that this is a relatively small cost in the scheme of things. On the other hand, if the government wanted to quash this speculation, all it has to do is announce this figure (maybe suitably inflated) as sufficient reason why it wouldn't be happening ("money that could be better spent elsewhere", the minister would say).

Then again, if they did decide to go back to Spencer Street, they'd just go ahead and do it, and hang the expense. Indeed, they'd probably have a "Grand Re-Opening Ceremony". The Premier would declare, as he unveils the plaque, that his government was taking the initiative in restoring a "much-loved Melbourne icon" (or words to that effect) .....!!!
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
If, as you say, the cost of rebranding Southern Cross back to Spencer Street is approximately $2m, it could be argued that this is a relatively small cost in the scheme of things. On the other hand, if the government wanted to quash this speculation, all it has to do is announce this figure (maybe suitably inflated) as sufficient reason why it wouldn't be happening ("money that could be better spent elsewhere", the minister would say).

Then again, if they did decide to go back to Spencer Street, they'd just go ahead and do it, and hang the expense. Indeed, they'd probably have a "Grand Re-Opening Ceremony". The Premier would declare, as he unveils the plaque, that his government was taking the initiative in restoring a "much-loved Melbourne icon" (or words to that effect) .....!!!
Fred Scuttle

My God, are you secretly Denis Napthine's spin doctor?  Because that's exactly how it would be sold to the public.
  Gman_86 Chief Commissioner

Location: Melton, where the sparks dare not roam!
Just do it, either way people are going to have a whinge about it, at least we can have a station that has a name that makes some sort of sense to anybody who hasn't spent their whole life in Melbourne.
  XAM2175 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Glasgow
This at least should be fixed.  A visitor to Melbourne could be excused for thinking that they are two different stations.
Lad_Porter
Not as in it was never changed - as in it's been changed back in the last few days or weeks.

Over time various PID systems have called the station "Southern Cross", "Southern Cross Station", "Southern Crustacean", as well as "Southern Cross at Spencer St"

GPT insisted when redeveloping the centre (about ten years ago) that the direct access from Swanston Street into the station had to go or shopping centre would not be viable.  At that stage the place was in dire straits, the anchor tenant (Daimaru) had just walked and they were having trouble keeping smaller tenants...
don_dunstan


Cheers. I'm well aware of the circumstances myself, but it doesn't hurt to have the facts out there again. Effectively they took what was a spacious, well-considered, and architecturally-significant station - one of Melbourne's gems of modern architecture and certainly a step above Flagstaff and Parliament as stations - and destroyed it. Funnelling one and all through "Shot Tower Straits" is an absolute joke - made even more ridiculous by the new "designer marketplace" that eats half of the already-miniscule space.

And they've done the same now to Southern Cross. It can't be long until some bright spark works out works out how much of the "wasted space" on the FSS concourse could be occupied by "exciting new retailers".
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Cheers. I'm well aware of the circumstances myself, but it doesn't hurt to have the facts out there again. Effectively they took what was a spacious, well-considered, and architecturally-significant station - one of Melbourne's gems of modern architecture and certainly a step above Flagstaff and Parliament as stations - and destroyed it. Funnelling one and all through "Shot Tower Straits" is an absolute joke - made even more ridiculous by the new "designer marketplace" that eats half of the already-miniscule space.

And they've done the same now to Southern Cross. It can't be long until some bright spark works out works out how much of the "wasted space" on the FSS concourse could be occupied by "exciting new retailers".
jb17kx

Surely you jest - that concourse is already fully of obstacles as it is.  At the peaks it's actually difficult to manoeuvre through just because of that.  Ridiculous really because a railway station has to be primarily about the quick and free flow of pedestrians, not increasing the value of the shop spaces, yet another example of how governments sell public amenity for a buck.

My fear with all this priority on shop space is that one day there will be a fire/crowd incident and the shops will be a factor in preventing a quick evacuation.
  XAM2175 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Glasgow
Surely you jest...
don_dunstan
That would be why "wasted space" was in quotes Wink
I agree wholeheartedly.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
It's depressing the willingness with which politicians put a buck before their electors... all of our major stations bar Parliament and North Melbourne are now shopping centres with stations attached.  Richmond is next on the list to get the glamorous shopping centre treatment (apparently), there's also plans to put a huge block of apartments on top straddling Hoddle Street.  Oh well, that's just how the world works I guess.  Property developers and commercial landlords are always high on the donor lists of both parties so it's really hard for pollies to say 'no' to wish-lists, especially from the big concerns.
  Bogong Chief Commissioner

Location: Essendon Aerodrome circa 1980
I take your point and generally agree with it. BUT...

Richmond station is ugly, grotty and dysfunctional. It's one of those few places that would actually look better if it was hit by a bomb. Something has to be done about it to improve the passenger experience, BUT...

The state government is almost broke and has limited spare funds. So if the government can't do it, surely rather than do nothing and allow the place to get even more squalid, we could sell the rights to develop the spare land to a developer in return for totally rebuilding the station and paying a hefty fee which could be used to make improvements elsewhere on the rail network?
  XAM2175 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Glasgow
People said the same thing about Spencer Street... and within five or so years Southern Cross is being filled to the brim with shops.

Every year the interchange between trains and buses at Box Hill gets more tedious as more and more little "retail spaces" pop up where you used to be able to walk.

And to top it all off, the arrangement between National Express and GPT is commercial-in-confidence, so we don't even know how much money NX made from the destruction of Melbourne Central Station. If they're that precious about the figure, I'm prepared to bet re-investing in the network wasn't high on their priorities list.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to continue to be perfectly happy with Richmond's current defects to avoid getting a whole new set of defects that are even harder to live with.
  Braddo Deputy Commissioner

Location: Narre Warren
Aside from the toilets being an absolute disgrace I have no complaints about Richmond station.
  ab123 Chief Train Controller

Southern Cross is confusing, what about North Melbourne station in West Melbourne?
  Gwiwer Rt Hon Gentleman and Ghost of Oliver Bulleid

Location: Loitering in darkest Somewhere
We are entering the arena of station naming in general.  North Melbourne station might strictly be within the defined suburb of West Melbourne but is the station serving the far more populous and better-known North Melbourne.  The name Southern Cross owes nothing to its location and is still widely referred to as "Spencer Street station" by the average Joe or Joanne.  At least it hasn't gone the way of the adjacent sports stadium and been given the name of a corporate sponsor which then changes every few years.  

"Air rights" are becoming hot property.  Sales of the air space over railways are starting to bring in big bucks.  My questions are (1) What has the railway done to deserve being hidden from view among such retail palace monstrosities and (2) Who determines the ownership of the air anyway?  Is it the property of the vendor to sell?

If it might cost $2m to revert Spencer Street station to its previous name then in the scheme of things that is a fairly small cost.  Arguably it could be better spent but it's not going to buy us another V/locity unit or tram nor, probably, to secure a meaningful timetable improvement of a single suburban bus route over the next several years.  Set against the cost of a big-bucks project (let's use the alleged $1.5bn-and-rising cost of Myki as it is a headline-grabber and bottomless pit of our taxes) $2m is like a few silver coins in the grand scheme of things.

At that level I would support the return of the name Spencer Street.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Gwiwer: As previously discussed "Southern Cross" was a fancy new name that Bachelor dreamed up because they felt the new station needed a new name.  It bears no relationship to the physical location and it refers to a historical event that actually occurred in Ballarat East, nothing to do with Melbourne.

As you say, $2 million is nothing in comparison to the bottomless pit that has become myki.

Speaking of brands/names, myki still makes me laugh.  At one stage before they were un-elected, Labor apparently had some research that suggested the name 'myki' had started to stink because the Liberals were doing such a good hatchet job on the late delivery/glitches... I wonder if they actually considered changing the name because of the negative association with that huge, botched IT project?
  Obzerva Station Master

Location: #6 / Glen Waverley line
Southern Cross is confusing, what about North Melbourne station in West Melbourne?
ab123

agree.

and all the tram destinations that are incorrect, historical maybe, but incorrect as far as destinations go.

haven't seen much people jumping on a bandwagon to rename the misnamed 72 Camberwell, 5 Malvern, 78 Prahran, among others.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
The name Southern Cross .... is still widely referred to as "Spencer Street station" by the average Joe or Joanne.  
Gwiwer

I wouldn't have thought that is true actually.  Apart from on Railpage I don't think I have heard to the station referred to as anything other than Southern Cross for a few years now.
  ChoooChoo Chief Train Controller

I wouldn't have thought that is true actually.  Apart from on Railpage I don't think I have heard to the station referred to as anything other than Southern Cross for a few years now.
"Calgully"


A bit of a generalisation on my behalf, but I have heard it referred to as Spencer Street quiet often, usually by 30 year olds and above, who would have known it more years as Spencer Street then its current name.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Very happy to see Spencer St return. It is after all the name of he Station that occupied this location for over a 150 years.  Those cringe mongering rabids who felt compelled to hide their embarrassment  ( and really a total lack of historical understanding ) in renaming it to something as plastic and irrelevent as SC are the ones who ought to be held accountable. Spencer St has a rightful place and naming in this city's history. Ill be glad to see it back
SPSD40T2
Spencer Street Question

So Twentieth Century...surely you have more pressing things to be worried about.

Time to move on...
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Spencer Street Question

So Twentieth Century...surely you have more pressing things to be worried about.

Time to move on...
The Vinelander

Well, I am suprised at your cavalier attitude!
And here's me thinking that, you of all people, would have argued a good case for Spencer Street Station over Southern Cross Station!
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy

Spencer Street http://www.railpage.com.au/images/smiles/icon_question.gif
So Twentieth Century...surely you have more pressing things to be worried about.
Time to move on...
"The Vinelander"


I had no idea that the twentieth century was so bad.
  alstom_888m Chief Commissioner

Location:
I liked it better than the twenty-first century, especially the music.
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Well, I am surprised at your cavalier attitude!
And here's me thinking that, you of all people, would have argued a good case for Spencer Street Station over Southern Cross Station!
xxxxlbear
I like the name Southern Cross.

IMO it's like saying Grand Central Station in New York, or Central station in Sydney should be named after the street the main exits/entrance to these stations should be named after...clearly they are not.


Mike.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I like the name Southern Cross.

IMO it's like saying Grand Central Station in New York, or Central station in Sydney should be named after the street the main exits/entrance to these stations should be named after...clearly they are not.


Mike.
The Vinelander

Yes, but the differences are that the 2 stations you have named have been known by that name for a very long time, and as a consequence, most people know the names, even if they don't use the stations.
Also, the names have some logical reference to the stations importance, and general geography to the cities that they are in.

Southern Cross has no link to the area (Melbourne CBD), or indeed Melbourne in general.

The only links the name Southern Cross has, are to a historical event in Ballarat, stars on a flag, and a pattern of stars in the sky.
  ShaunClarke Station Staff

Location: Melbourne
Ohh....like Sydenham and Watergardens Question
The Vinelander
I remember the first time I had to Sydenham/Watergardens for an appointment - very confusing! At least that's been fixed with the Sunbury extension!

I daresay it will cost more than you imagine. It's not just a matter of changing over "some signage". There'd be a lot of back-end work you simply wouldn't think about or see.

Consider the following:

*Replacing every sign at Southern Cross to say Spencer Street.
*Reprogramming the PIDs and assorted information systems to say Spencer St and not Southern Cross
*Reprogramming the Myki systems so that it registers you at Spencer St and not Southern Cross
*Reprogramming the Vline ticketing system to reflect the change
*Reprogramming the PTV & Vline websites to reflect the change
*Ensuring every single system/facility/piece of paper in PTV/State Government refers to Spencer St and not Southern Cross. (this is a BIG cost item)
*Reprinting and replacing network maps at every station in Melbourne
*Reprinting and replacing network maps on each train carriage (though admittedly, these need updating in a lot of cases anyway; some are 4 years old currently)
*Reprinting and replacing each printed timetable posted up around Melbourne
*An advertising campaign to alert the public that the name has changed.

God only knows what else that I can't think of from the top of my head. Having worked in Government before today, I know how these seemingly small things can cost an awful lot to actually implement. Government projects  A ballpark figure, I would say the cost of changing the station name would be somewhere in the region of $2 mill, all said and done. I'm sure that $2 mill could be better invested somewhere else!
raudteejaam

The goverment seems to love spending money just changing the name of things. I see they're currently busy replacing signage over the network for the sole purpose of moving forward with the PTV branding, in fact, since they've just already gone and replaced all the platform signs at Southern Cross, it seems like a great time to go ahead and change the name Rolling Eyes.
  VBAndy Chief Commissioner

Southern Cross on Spencer St as announcments used to say, that was tolerable. We all seem to agree it was a waste of money changing it in the first place, so what is wrong with spending a little to rectify the mistake? Either way, you can lump me in the group who never stopped calling it Spencer St or "Spenna."

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.