Countrylink- passengers smoking in lavatories

 
  RatholeTunnel Locomotive Driver

Location: Sydney Area
Had a trip recently on the Canberra train, someone was frequently visiting the toilet & smoking there. Crew was never around. The fire/smoke alarms don't go off. Penalties are hopeless. I'm taking up a campaign to:

Have detectors capable if reacting to the problem
Zero tolerance-offenders to be offloaded without compensation, with forfeiture of ticket, as soon as possible
Heavier fines-max penalty 30 penalty units (currently exceeds $3,000) or 6 months gaol & to be dealt in court only
Offenders to be barred from the service until fines paid in full or after gaol time.

Noting that passengers in US passenger planes can be gaoled for smoking in lavatories.

Current penalties are no deterrent to this feral demographic even fines don't work maybe gaol will.

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  taggy Chief Commissioner

Location: At Fassifern watching double Garratts.
Speaking as a previous Passenger Attendant with CL, I will say this.

The crew are absolutely powerless in this field. Yes, the alarms go off and if you have a good crew that do there job, they will investigate. As the crew, it is a case of 'stop or I'll say stop again'. We cannot remove any passenger without police help as we have a 'duty of care'. That being said, the crew will absolutely not call for police for such trival things as this may cause them not turn up in case of a real problem arising.

It is a hard topic and believe me when I say that I don't condone the behaviour and it was a constant pain in the smeg having to deal with these people. It wont get any better until these animals are forced to travel on alternative transport. They simply don't care about others nor the train/equipment they may be tampering with.

My favourite line was 'are you aware that it takes only 4 minutes for this carriage to burn to the ground'? Many worried faces after that! Wink

I completely agree with your statement but unfortunately I cant see it changing anytime soon.
  RTT_Rules Dr Beeching

Location: Dubai UAE
Why cannot you say stop or by law I will forced to fine you $XXX?
  taggy Chief Commissioner

Location: At Fassifern watching double Garratts.
And how do you propose I fine them? That only worked when we had the occasional Transit on but not anymore.
As the crew, you can't fine anyone. (and these scumbags know this and would probably laugh at you)
  CaseyJones Chief Commissioner

Location: A little south of sanity
If it happens again please inform a member of staff.

Make sure you tell them which car (EA/EB/EC) and which end so that it can be verified that the smoke detector is working properly.

As taggy has said it is a pain in the smeg putting up with these people and having to call the police and have them removed from the train. Obviously this causes delays to everyone else on the service which is unfortunate.

I ask crews to announce that there will be a delay due to a person smoking in car x and we will be awaiting the arrival of the police to remove them from the train...they certainly get plenty of death stares from the increasingly irate pax...

Cheers
  boromisa Junior Train Controller

Had a trip recently on the Canberra train, someone was frequently visiting the toilet & smoking there. Crew was never around. The fire/smoke alarms don't go off. Penalties are hopeless. I'm taking up a campaign to:

Have detectors capable if reacting to the problem
Zero tolerance-offenders to be offloaded without compensation, with forfeiture of ticket, as soon as possible
Heavier fines-max penalty 30 penalty units (currently exceeds $3,000) or 6 months gaol & to be dealt in court only
Offenders to be barred from the service until fines paid in full or after gaol time.

Noting that passengers in US passenger planes can be gaoled for smoking in lavatories.

Current penalties are no deterrent to this feral demographic even fines don't work maybe gaol will.
RatholeTunnel

Maybe execute them by firing squad at the next train station?

You obviously have an issue with smokers.

I enjoy smoking and I pay my taxes.  I have the same right to smoke as you do to enjoy smoke free environment. I will continue to exercise civili disobedience.

I don't smoke on train and I don't support it but this practice has come up as a result of stupid and prohobitive politically correct policies. I still support the idea of having smoker carriages where people on long trips could enjoy their habbit.

Oh and before you start on health thingy more people die from asbestos and other related lung diseases than from smoking.
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Oh and before you start on health thingy more people die from asbestos and other related lung diseases than from smoking.
boromisa
Complete smeg.

Annual death rates from tobacco related causes are something like twenty times that due to asbestos related causes.
  boromisa Junior Train Controller

Complete smeg.

Annual death rates from tobacco related causes are something like twenty times that due to asbestos related causes.
donttellmywife

Have you heard that every second house built before 90s has asbestos in it? Or that way many people inhale exhaust from motor vehicles than are exposed to smoke.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Maybe execute them by firing squad at the next train station?

You obviously have an issue with smokers.

I enjoy smoking and I pay my taxes.  I have the same right to smoke as you do to enjoy smoke free environment. I will continue to exercise civili disobedience.

I don't smoke on train and I don't support it but this practice has come up as a result of stupid and prohobitive politically correct policies. I still support the idea of having smoker carriages where people on long trips could enjoy their habbit.

Oh and before you start on health thingy more people die from asbestos and other related lung diseases than from smoking.
boromisa

I totally agree with your post, except for your last paragraph.

Do you have a link to current causes of death statistics that support your claim that more people die from non smoking related lung diseases than from smoking related diseases?
  The Vinelander Minister for Railways

Location: Ballan, Victoria on the Ballarat RFR Line
Have you heard that every second house built before 90s has asbestos in it? Or that way many people inhale exhaust from motor vehicles than are exposed to smoke.
boromisa
Searching for excuses other than anecdotal evidence that cigarette smoking may not be killing you seems laughable to anyone else who avoids smoking and smokers like the plague...and that's the majority of the population who know that smoking related illnesses are a much bigger killer than asbestos in houses which is usually painted over and is therefore considered safe.

Fortunately this insidious smoking habit is dying...and so are those addicted to it who lay down their lives early so as to reduce their burden on the taxpayer.

'Enjoy' your addiction...Laughing
  donttellmywife Chief Commissioner

Location: Antofagasta
Have you heard that every second house built before 90s has asbestos in it? Or that way many people inhale exhaust from motor vehicles than are exposed to smoke.
boromisa
I'm very familiar with the prevalence in, and nature of exposure to, the general population of the various forms of asbestos - about a decade ago I was involved in studies looking at respirable fibre release rates from some materials (stuff that was, and still is, carried in trains through urban areas - but the risk of death from fibre exposure was way less than the risk of getting hit by the train...), relative to background exposures.  I'm also personally familiar with the single biggest industrial "disaster" in Australia's history that was due to asbestos exposure - having visited it on many occasions - consequently I now have a little collection of x-rays of my chest (and the odd CAT scan) that the quacks insist I add to every couple of years.

Enough background that I can fully appreciate the dangers of these materials, dangers that I'm not understating in any way, and also know that putting death rates in the same league as smoking related causes is sheer and utter nonsense.

Did you know that silica dust can be deadly?  Think of that next time you build a sandcastle on the beach...
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Last month I had the same issue. 2 yound idiots were caught smoking between Strathfield and Campbelltown towards Melbourne. The supervisor called the police so the 2 whingers (who also caught with their own alochol on board) banged on the crew door threatening the staff for a few minutes. I was sitting not too far away and I certainly kept my head down until they were off the train. Worth the 10 minute delay if you ask me, staff handled it very well.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I think the problem is that the death of common courtesy has called for all of these anti-smoking rules to come into effect. The "no smoking at all on platforms" is an extreme law that most people avoid, and it's been brought about by a minority of smokers arriving next to an existing passenger and lighting up. I take no issue if someone smokes nearby, provided they ask if it's okay. If I arrive after someone else has, and they are smoking - they were there first, they shouldn't have to move because I have arrived. Sadly, a minority continue to smoke inconsiderately, and that's why such rules are brought into force.
  RatholeTunnel Locomotive Driver

Location: Sydney Area
Course I have an issue with it. It's just extreme rudeness and arrogance on their part to smoke on board. It's the law that the service is no smoking. I expect the law strictly upheld. I feel the crew also need more support on this.
  RatholeTunnel Locomotive Driver

Location: Sydney Area
Course I have an issue with it. It's just extreme rudeness and arrogance on their part to smoke on board. It's the law that the service is no smoking. I expect the law strictly upheld. I feel the crew also need more support on this.
  tbohlsennswssrg Chief Train Controller

Location: Roseville, Sydney, NSW
Course I have an issue with it. It's just extreme rudeness and arrogance on their part to smoke on board. It's the law that the service is no smoking. I expect the law strictly upheld. I feel the crew also need more support on this.
RatholeTunnel
Warning Long Post

Here is the current legislation for the prohibition of smoking in NSW (Smoke-free Environment Act 2000 No 69):

6   Smoke-free areas—enclosed public places

(1)  Every enclosed public place is a smoke-free area for the purposes of this Act.
(2)  Schedule 1 contains a list of examples of enclosed public places that are smoke-free areas (irrespective of the name by which the particular place is known).
(3)  An enclosed public place is not a smoke-free area if it is an exempt area (see section 11).

6A   Smoke-free areas—outdoor public places

(1)  An outdoor public place is a smoke-free area for the purposes of this Act if it is any of the following places (or part of any of those places):
 (a)  a place that is within 10 metres of children’s play equipment but only if the children’s play equipment is in an outdoor public place,

 (b)  a swimming pool complex,

 (c)  an area set aside for or being used by spectators to watch an organised sporting event at a sports ground or other recreational area, but only when an organised sporting event is being held there,

 (d)  the platform of a passenger railway or light rail station,

 (e)  a ferry wharf,

 (f)  a light rail stop (with light rail stop to include any area where persons queue or gather when waiting at a light rail stop),

 (g)  a bus stop (with bus stop to include any area where persons queue or gather when waiting at a bus stop),

------------------------------------SNIP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7   Offence of smoking in smoke-free area

(1)  A person must not smoke in a smoke-free area.
Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.
(2)  A person who performs in a theatre or other performance space does not commit an offence under this section by smoking during the performance if smoking is a necessary part of the performance.
(3)  It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence under subsection (1) if the defendant proves that he or she did not know, and could not reasonably be expected to have known, that the place in which the person was smoking was a smoke-free area.

9   Occupier to display signs

(1)  The occupier of a smoke-free area must not fail to display within that area the signs (if any) prescribed by the regulations, in the manner (if any) prescribed by the regulations.
Maximum penalty:
 (a)  5 penalty units, in the case of a natural person, or
 (b)  25 penalty units, in the case of a body corporate.

(2)  The regulations may exempt any public place, or class of public place, from subsection (1).
(3)  The following outdoor public places are exempt from subsection (1):

 (a)  a place that is within 10 metres of children’s play equipment,
 (b)  a sports ground or other recreational area, unless the regulations otherwise provide in a particular case or class of cases,
 (c)  a light rail stop,
 (d)  a bus stop,
 (e)  a taxi rank,
 (f)  a place that is a smoke-free area because it is within 4 metres of a pedestrian access point to a building.
(4)  The Director-General may enter into arrangements with any government or local government agency or body for the display of signs relating to smoking in an outdoor public place that is exempt from subsection (1) and in respect of which the government or local government agency or body is the occupier.

11   Meaning of “exempt area”

In this Act, exempt area, in relation to a club, hotel, nightclub or casino, means the area set aside in accordance with section 11A or 11B or a casino private gaming area, but does not include any area:
(a)  required to be designated as a smoke-free area under regulations referred to in section 12, or
(b)  that is the subject of a declaration in force under section 13.


A penalty unit in NSW is defined in section 17 of the Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act 1999 No 92:

Unless the contrary intention appears, a reference in any Act or statutory rule to a number of penalty units (whether fractional or whole) is taken to be a reference to an amount of money equal to the amount obtained by multiplying $110 by that number of penalty units.
  RatholeTunnel Locomotive Driver

Location: Sydney Area
Penalty is too soft. Fines should be able to go to.up to 30 penalty units and as with aircraft, it should become a criminal offence with the possibility of prison (in the US one can receive a prison sentence for smoking in a plane). There is a certain demographic for which fines are no deterrent as they don't pay them.
  RatholeTunnel Locomotive Driver

Location: Sydney Area
Plus no on-the-spot fine for this. All offenders to be dealt with in court.
  DrArtherGunzel Junior Train Controller

Location: Marsden NSW
Plus no on-the-spot fine for this. All offenders to be dealt with in court.
RatholeTunnel
This happened to me last week on the melbourne to sydney XPT and the staff was trying there best to catch the person and they said on the PA if we catch the smoker the police will deal with them and they be walking home so the staff on that train are very good in doing there job.
  TheLoadedDog The Ghost of George Stephenson

For the ones who know the crew can't touch them, I'd recommend an engineering fix to the solution, accompanied by this sign:

WARNING - FIRE PROTECTION SYSTEM
This lavatory is fitted with a highly sensitive smoke detector.
Upon activation of this detector, a deluge system will deploy.
100 litres of chilled water per minute will be forced under pressure into the cubicle, from the ceiling.

Might help.  Mr. Green
  littleal9 Train Controller

Location: bellambi
For the ones who know the crew can't touch them, I'd recommend an engineering fix to the solution, accompanied by this sign:

WARNING - FIRE PROTECTION SYSTEM
This lavatory is fitted with a highly sensitive smoke detector.
Upon activation of this detector, a deluge system will deploy.
100 litres of chilled water per minute will be forced under pressure into the cubicle, from the ceiling.

Might help.  Mr. Green
TheLoadedDog™™
Don't include the last 2 lines on the sign, use a light sensitve switch so that act of lighting up sets off the deluge system.

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