More Goulburn services?

 
  Toddles177 Station Staff

Location: Banned
I know this thread probably has been done already but when I searched, all I saw were XPT threads.

Anyway, I'd personally like to see a few more services to Goulburn.

With a population of 25,803 people added up in all the towns with railway stations along from Moss Vale to Goulburn (Goulburn included) plus more with neighbouring towns, a few extra services couldn't hurt. There is only one return service a day at 3:48pm from Central. But what if Cityrail introduced a second service that left between 5-5:30pm so then people who work in the city can work until 5?

Interested in hearing other's views Smile

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  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
That is a peak-hour slot, which is extremely valuable and much better used for an eight-car suburban to convey a full load of passengers to Campbelltown, with Southern Highlands passengers connecting.
  RTT_Rules Oliver Bullied, CME

Location: Dubai UAE
I know this thread probably has been done already but when I searched, all I saw were XPT threads.

Anyway, I'd personally like to see a few more services to Goulburn.

With a population of 25,803 people added up in all the towns with railway stations along from Moss Vale to Goulburn (Goulburn included) plus more with neighbouring towns, a few extra services couldn't hurt. There is only one return service a day at 3:48pm from Central. But what if Cityrail introduced a second service that left between 5-5:30pm so then people who work in the city can work until 5?

Interested in hearing other's views Smile
Toddles177
Hi,
At nearly 3.2hr to the city from Goulburn I think its beyond the practical reach of the daily commuter to Sydney CBD, maybe closer to Sydney SW, but not CBD.

What I think should be consider is that Southern Highlands Commuter Services terminate/start from Moss Vale.

Services from Exter to Canberra should be covered by a 3 but ideally 5 x a day service from the Central that provides both booked and unbooked seats. All services stop all stops between Moss Vale and Canberra, connecting at Moss Vale for local services. Extra services a day would make up for a slightly longer trip and only stopping as required on minor stops.

regards
Shane
  boromisa Junior Train Controller

I know this thread probably has been done already but when I searched, all I saw were XPT threads.

Anyway, I'd personally like to see a few more services to Goulburn.

With a population of 25,803 people added up in all the towns with railway stations along from Moss Vale to Goulburn (Goulburn included) plus more with neighbouring towns, a few extra services couldn't hurt. There is only one return service a day at 3:48pm from Central. But what if Cityrail introduced a second service that left between 5-5:30pm so then people who work in the city can work until 5?

Interested in hearing other's views Smile
Toddles177

As someone said not many people commute to and from Goulburn and if they do they tend to drive rather than catch snail rail. The location is already well served by 5 pairs of Countrylink services each day.

What should happen down in Southern Highlands is that electrification should be extended to Picton to cater for more services as Sydney expands.

Further, Moss Vale trains should be direct to City. No one really uses train service when you have to change zillion times. Perhaps with Revesby quadriplication it could be achievied or run it via Regents Park. (my preferred option so we could get some decent trains to Liverpool)
  petey3801 Chief Commissioner

Location: On the rails
Further, Moss Vale trains should be direct to City. No one really uses train service when you have to change zillion times


Since when is 1 change of trains a "zillion" times. I think people need to stop being so precious about interchange and just get over it! A well timed connection adds bugger all time to the journey and allows a much larger capacity vehicle to use the increasingly valuable paths into Sydney Central.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Goulburn already has sufficent train services to and from Central, in peak hour the slots are all taken up with double deck 8 car trains, replacing a slot for a 4 car DMU would not increase passenger capacity. I hope the OP doesn't mind armchair posting here as the alternative I would bring is an express coach from Goulburn to Campbelltown, with perhaps an additional stop along the highway at about Marulan for the smaller villages and likewise for return journey. This would save about 40 minutes of travel. There are people that commute to and from Goulburn to areas like Campbelltown and Liverpool.

I used to be a stubborn one-seat whinger however I now realise that a changeover isn't all that a big problem. The proposed timetable actually improves travel for peak hour commuters from Goulburn and the Southern Highlands, the Goulburn train leaves 30 minutes later and no longer stops at the minor stations between Moss Vale and Campbelltown, which then connects with an express East Hills train that uses the Revesby quad. In Off peak the connecting East Hills train runs express from Holsworthy to Wolli Creek.

In addition, the Mon-Wed-Fri-Sun Canberra service becomes a daily service, which also benefits Goulburn.
  CaseyJones Chief Commissioner

Location: A little south of sanity
bowralcommuter, SP35 & SP36 have not been confirmed as running 7 days per week as yet.

NSW Trains has planned the paths for running everyday in case it decides to do so in the near future.

That is not to say by October things won't change...

Cheers
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
bowralcommuter, SP35 & SP36 have not been confirmed as running 7 days per week as yet.

NSW Trains has planned the paths for running everyday in case it decides to do so in the near future.

That is not to say by October things won't change...

Cheers
"CaseyJones"


Didn't know that, it doesn't indicate that it only runs on certain days. Eg-The cockatoo run has Wednesday and Thursday indicated, while an Empty Endeavour run has Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Being the final "draft" I thought only departure time changes would change but I'm guessing train service frequencies can get fiddled with too.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Media whinging about the proposed changes:
http://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/1567253/rail-draft-needs-work/?cs=12

I like the proposed changes to be honest, it means Goulburn passengers can get out of bed 30 minutes later. They say Goulburn isn't the focus and Moss Vale is, but I've boarded the 5am train from Moss Vale a few times and there wouldn't be more than 15 people on the train, commonly 10 probably. The article didn't even mention that Goulburn get Countrylink trains.
  Katanyavich Station Master

Location: Sthn NSW
Bottom-line is that the southern terminus for CityRail should always have been at Goulburn, not Moss Vale.

But then, we don't have all the ex-pollies and celebrities.....
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
Bottom-line is that the southern terminus for CityRail should always have been at Goulburn, not Moss Vale.
"Katanyavich"


Care to explain why?

But then, we don't have all the ex-pollies and celebrities.....
"Katanyavich"


So your saying passenger services are determined by subjective opinions/stereotypes of the area by Railcorp and the NSW government? Rolling Eyes
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I would think that with the re-defining of CityRail/CountryLink, the opportunity exists to blur the line between interurban and suburban a bit. Say, terminate the "suburban" style trains at Moss Vale, but run a more frequent CountryLink service with non-booked seats, or something similar.

Everyone is scrambling to have an opinion on a lot of changes, but I'd wager there are lot more changes that nobody really knows about, that will really change the game.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I would think that with the re-defining of CityRail/CountryLink, the opportunity exists to blur the line between interurban and suburban a bit. Say, terminate the "suburban" style trains at Moss Vale, but run a more frequent CountryLink service with non-booked seats, or something similar.

Everyone is scrambling to have an opinion on a lot of changes, but I'd wager there are lot more changes that nobody really knows about, that will really change the game.
Raichase
On the contrary, I think the objective is to exaggerate the difference between interurban and suburban (probably more to do with making "metros" seem more appropriate).  Where the lines will blur are between interurban and regional/CountryLink, and I have a pretty fair idea that means CityRail service standards with CountryLink pricing.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
I would think that with the re-defining of CityRail/CountryLink, the opportunity exists to blur the line between interurban and suburban a bit. Say, terminate the "suburban" style trains at Moss Vale, but run a more frequent CountryLink service with non-booked seats, or something similar.

Everyone is scrambling to have an opinion on a lot of changes, but I'd wager there are lot more changes that nobody really knows about, that will really change the game.
"Raichase"


I would have thought "final draft" would indicate only departure time adjustments etc can change from here until the published timetable? I like the idea of non-booked seating too but I'm not sure if we'll see that for a while yet.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I would have thought "final draft" would indicate only departure time adjustments etc can change from here until the published timetable? I like the idea of non-booked seating too but I'm not sure if we'll see that for a while yet.
bowralcommuter
I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, I'm just suggesting that the changes on July 1st and October might only be the start of a much larger plan in place inside the Ministry... For all we know, they're planning some big things that just have not leaked yet.
  Katanyavich Station Master

Location: Sthn NSW
Care to explain why?



So your saying passenger services are determined by subjective opinions/stereotypes of the area by Railcorp and the NSW government? Rolling Eyes
bowralcommuter

No, it was tongue-in-cheek.

But it does make you wonder....
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
No, it was tongue-in-cheek.

But it does make you wonder....
Katanyavich
My apologies, as you probably know humour is hard to detect sometimes on the internet. There are 2 substantial reasons why Goulburn is not the main terminus that I can think of:

1.Set utilization-there are only 6 sets, sending more to Goulburn will create larger service gaps.
2.Patronage-On the services that do go to and from Goulburn, there is probably 3-4 times more people boarding/alighting at Moss Vale, Bowral and Mittagong than Exeter-Goulburn.
  Katanyavich Station Master

Location: Sthn NSW
My apologies, as you probably know humour is hard to detect sometimes on the internet. There are 2 substantial reasons why Goulburn is not the main terminus that I can think of:

1.Set utilization-there are only 6 sets, sending more to Goulburn will create larger service gaps.
2.Patronage-On the services that do go to and from Goulburn, there is probably 3-4 times more people boarding/alighting at Moss Vale, Bowral and Mittagong than Exeter-Goulburn.
bowralcommuter

No worries. I sure didn't realise there were only six sets, that explains a lot.

Thanks!
  RatholeTunnel Locomotive Driver

Location: Sydney Area
Southern Highlands line had been long neglected because unlike the other intercity lines, it doesn't have several safe labor seats.  Since the current government, services have been increased, no doubt thanks to the input of their local member Pru Goward.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Southern Highlands line had been long neglected because unlike the other intercity lines, it doesn't have several safe labor seats.  Since the current government, services have been increased, no doubt thanks to the input of their local member Pru Goward.
RatholeTunnel
I'm sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with the lack of O/H wires, the lack of suitable diesel rolling stock and the more spread out population (when compared to the mountains, the Central Coast and the Illawarra). I think you'll find the new timetable is better set utilization of what they have, they've not plucked trains out of thin air to please a local member. Basically, they've got the smart cookies in timetabling to provide a better service with the trains they've got at their disposal. I understand this comes at a cost of direct trains to/from Sydney Terminal, which is a shame.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

Since when is 1 change of trains a "zillion" times. I think people need to stop being so precious about interchange and just get over it! A well timed connection adds bugger all time to the journey and allows a much larger capacity vehicle to use the increasingly valuable paths into Sydney Central.
petey3801

This issue for people who "commute" from Goulburn - and I'm married to someone who does it occasionally - and changing trains is the evening Down peak hour service is pretty near to all stations  (though checking the CityRail timetable the connection *only* makes 14 stops, skipping 17 - before making a further 19 stops to get to Goulburn.  

Given Goulburn to Cambelltown is 70min by road but 150min by Endeavour train, I think the early AM Goulburn train aught to be a road coach instead running:

Goulburn        6:30am
Marulan          6:50am
Campbelltown 7:50am

And down:
Campbo  6:10PM
Marulan  7:10pm
Goulburn 7:30pm

That is actually a very reasonable commute, but doesn't exactly leave you with terribly flexible working hours.
  djf01 Chief Commissioner

I'm sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with the lack of O/H wires, the lack of suitable diesel rolling stock and the more spread out population (when compared to the mountains, the Central Coast and the Illawarra). I think you'll find the new timetable is better set utilization of what they have, they've not plucked trains out of thin air to please a local member. Basically, they've got the smart cookies in timetabling to provide a better service with the trains they've got at their disposal. I understand this comes at a cost of direct trains to/from Sydney Terminal, which is a shame.
Raichase
Under the "old" (read current) TT there are only 2 SH services into ST per day.  One of them the late AM Goulburn Endeavour double set which gets the day in Sydney for servicing, followed closely by an ex Mossy set which - as far as I can see - has a primary function of returning the Goulburn Endeavour's crew back to Mossy.  That second service's loss impacts very few people badly at all, your good self or one of your brethren perhaps being one of them though!

From what little I've seen, the new timetable has 3 of the 5 SH sets plying Mossy to Cambo to provide and all day hourly service.  The other 2 sets are used to provide a "peak" (sort of) service to Goulburn, and an extra peak highland's service, and still allows 2 sets to be rotated through Sydney for daytime maintenance.

To me this looks like a huge improvement in the deployment of existing resources.  And I'd like to think the BowralCommuter p-layed at least some small part in bringing this about.
  bowralcommuter Chief Commissioner

Location: Asleep on a Manly Ferry
The timetable will be much better now for the Southern Highlands Smile. Thanks for the compliment DJF, I pushed a few times in particular for more than 1 peak hour AM service, not sure if I really made a difference though. That 4:59 Goulburn-Campbelltown currently uses 4 carriages, which is a waste until you get to about Tahmoor. I told them that they could split the train and use 2 carriages for a 6:30 Moss Vale express to Campbelltown, I too think it'd better for the train to start at Moss Vale but at least any 9-17 Goulburn commuters can get an extra 30 minutes sleep now Razz. We also benefit from faster East Hills services to and from the city, with connections at Macarthur that stop: Campbelltown, Leumeah, Minto, Ingleburn, Glenfield, Holsworthy, Wolli Creek then all to the city via Airport and return.

That Moss Vale direct which runs 15 minutes after the Goulburn direct was a waste, the only purpose it served was to be able to say Cityrail provided a direct service for the smaller stations, from October 21 that train will run to Campbelltown which helps provide the all-day hourly service.  The direct Goulburn will amalgamate when it arrives Moss Vale at 08:37 on the up, rather than what it does presently, which is put on 4 carriages at Moss Vale as it prepares to depart for Goulburn at 6am. This move probably allows the extra service that departs Moss Vale at 4:20, which will probably gets used by the blue collar workers. The local press have been complaining the direct gets to Central at 10:34, which is 34 minutes later than present. They've done this to make it look neat as the Goulburn commuter arrives Central at 08:34. I think the current 10am arrival is better but its not the end of the world. They've done the same thing with the down trains, arriving Goulburn at 19:07 and 20:37.

The only negatives is that there are still no express services on the down for reasons I'm not sure of and the weekend timetable has remained the same with services every 2 hours.
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
That second service's loss impacts very few people badly at all, your good self or one of your brethren perhaps being one of them though!
djf01
My mistake, I'm not bemoaning the changes to specific services, just that the net loss of direct trains to/from Sydney is poor, in this day and age. I have no issues with people changing trains to get to their destination, but it discourages regional transport when people cannot get onto the one train to get to the city (obviously they'll then change for their final destination). I can see all of the logic behind it (lack of trainsets, lack of paths, etc), doesn't mean I have to like it.

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