Noarlunga Line Shutdown

 
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
She cares about her job though, which she's probably going to lose to the very popular deputy mayor of Marion come next March. Name calling of voters in her own  seat won't help her cause, no matter whether she's right or not.

That's probably something better handled by the minister for transport and infrastructure - Turbo Tom. He's secure enough in his position that he can afford to call people flat earth climate change denying luddites.
justapassenger

She doesn't have to call them names, she just needs to ladle them with guilt that their actions are potentially holding up the project which, let's face it, is taking long enough as it is.

You sound like someone who has a lot of knowledge about the machinations of the political system, justapassenger?

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  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I love the fact that it is going to spoil their view, but you have to look down at the road and rail line, looking out to sea you would not even know it was there. I mean really who wants a view of neighbours roof's. If it was in direct line of sight then yes they might have something, but down that far, I doubt you would stand a chance. This sounds like someone stirring the pot and some sheep have gone along with it. Watch then bleat in the future though about lack of public transport etc in that area. You just cannot please everyone all the time. A dozen people but what do the rest think in that street or don't they give a fig about it. The rest have most likely worked out there is no gain without some pain!
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

She doesn't have to call them names, she just needs to ladle them with guilt that their actions are potentially holding up the project which, let's face it, is taking long enough as it is.

You sound like someone who has a lot of knowledge about the machinations of the political system, justapassenger?
don_dunstan
Whether she calls them names or not, putting the hard word on a bunch of residents is something best done by the Minister for Transport and Infrastructure, not the local member (who is coincidentally was appointed the Minister for Making Bad Announcements About Public Transport Which Might Embarrass Mr Conlon, aka the Minister for Public Transport Services)

I do have a few very low-level contacts in the political world, including said incoming MP Speirs.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Chloe Fox should never have gone down there to meet with them, it was obvious she was going to be belted with brickbats by those people.  Today Tonight just wanted the TV of her being harassed by those residents.

Back to topic, are there any update photos on the spread of the catenary? I'd be interested to see what Edwardstown looks like with poles/wires.  I do appreciate the photos that regular posters put up here, it's really great to see what's going on.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
They were uploaded to You Tube yesterday by Marie Jonsson-Harrison (the lady in the red top) but I'm not sure they are actually recent news reports.  The date on the second one is (I think?) the 3rd of May, over a month ago.  Something must have happened since then.

Didn't Chloe Fox say they were actually getting a smaller cantilever tensioning station rather than the larger one being shown by Ch 7 renders?
don_dunstan
My thoughts are its a tensioning station for the wire that goes around the huge curved viaduct, hence it needs to be reasonably close to the end of the curve to stop from pulling too much wire out of alignment.

I don't see why it would look as CH7 shows, those poles are only intended for lightweight cantilever arms. Its too close to the Lonsdale substation to be a neutral section anyway.
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
My thoughts are its a tensioning station for the wire that goes around the huge curved viaduct, hence it needs to be reasonably close to the end of the curve to stop from pulling too much wire out of alignment.
"fabricator"

What? Tension in a cable is constant and not dependant on where the force is applied.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

G'day all

I just went past the Columbia Cres site for a sticky beak.

There is one double pole structure at the section break and one gantry type overhead.

Whilst I would not like the structures interrupting my sea views they are significantly less obtrusive than depicted.
Whereas before, potential property purchasers might have been unaware of the railway it is now quite obvious. It has probably taken $50,000 to $100,000 off the property value.  Wait until the booster transformer goes up on the double pole!

The overhead is tensioned up to that point with no significant stringing on the up side.

The Pt Stanvac sidings are not yet wired and neither are the access switches nor the crossover; some hardware remains on the ground.

Regards
Ian
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Perhaps counter that with the fact that fast, quiet and clean public transport will be readily available, as pointed out previously Perth had the same arguements when the Mandurah line was being built not a whimper these days and Mandurah has a very quickly increasing property value range as a result of the railway.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

Perhaps counter that with the fact that fast, quiet and clean public transport will be readily available, as pointed out previously Perth had the same arguements when the Mandurah line was being built not a whimper these days and Mandurah has a very quickly increasing property value range as a result of the railway.
alcoworldseries
The improvement to public transport for Hallett Cove residents will be in the order of just a few minutes compared to the existing train service, hardly enough to make a difference compared to losing 50-150k.

If the Seaford extension does turn out to be the first case in SA where "build it and they will come" actually works (i.e. that passengers using the new stations are actually new passengers, not just people who currently use Noarlunga) the increased loadings will make for an even less appealing travel experience than it is currently.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
50 - 150K I have to ask the obvious according to who, and what base value real ones or the usual vastly over inflated ones that always crop up in every instance like this in SA, I wouldn't believe one media outlet in Australia for the truth..............nor any real estate agent likely to get a cut out of any sale.
AND at least the current government(s) are spending on public infrastructure, the altenative would have thrown up their hands long ago and "declared the country bankrupt" rather than borrow to (successfully) keep the economy buoyant. the current deficts are miniscule compared to others around the world, it might pay to remember that!
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I would have thought the generally depressed property market would have more impact on values than a railway line - try selling a house quickly.

I would also note that some people who complain about losing property value also complain about increasing council and sewer rates, and where applicable, land tax when the lower the value the better.

You will also notice that any proposed government imposed regulation will add $5000 to the cost of a new house, and $2000 to the cost of a new car:  think about the reactions in the past of the industry spokespeople who really don't want to change anything.

(Ford and Holden tried to pull this one when unleaded petrol was being introduced: trouble was most Japanese cars met the requirements off the shelf.)

Still, I have no argument with a resident raising an issue where a minor change would fix it.

If the Channel 7 footage is misleading then perhaps it should be referred to Media Watch.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

50 - 150K I have to ask the obvious according to who, and what base value real ones or the usual vastly over inflated ones that always crop up in every instance like this in SA, I wouldn't believe one media outlet in Australia for the truth..............nor any real estate agent likely to get a cut out of any sale.
AND at least the current government(s) are spending on public infrastructure, the altenative would have thrown up their hands long ago and "declared the country bankrupt" rather than borrow to (successfully) keep the economy buoyant. the current deficts are miniscule compared to others around the world, it might pay to remember that!
alcoworldseries

AlcoWS, you have no basis whatsoever for your political statements.

Remember it is the "others" who left a Federal surplus to be over spent by that Ruddy mob and have twice in my lifetime dug this state out of financial mess left by those of the ilk of the present incumbents. (They have even tried to rewrite history to cast Costello as the villain.)

One thing I am happy to say is that the present state treasurer/premier has learned some hard lessons very quickly and very well.

The Rann spending was predicated on BHP rolling over and feeding vast sums of money into the state coffers. Every man and his dog, and the government, tried to milk what they thought was the BHP ODX cash cow. For example fees that had been $120 per hour became $250. (I even put my fees up a little.) No wonder BHP decided to hold off. Now Jay is left to clean up the mess.

I have two arguments with the infrastructure spending.
- The Adelaide Oval which could have waited or maybe never have happened.
- The Sexy duplication which has no basis in traffic demand and should have at least waited until the Seaford rail extension and electrification was completed.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
.....
If the Seaford extension does turn out to be the first case in SA where "build it and they will come" actually works (i.e. that passengers using the new stations are actually new passengers, not just people who currently use Noarlunga) the increased loadings will make for an even less appealing travel experience than it is currently.
justapassenger

The real improvements probably lie in things like much faster acceleration than the 3000's so trains that stop all or most stations should (in theory) be faster than the old service.  Hopefully that in itself attracts the sorts of improved numbers we're looking for.  They're also taking delivery of more trains than they need to run the Tonsley/Seaford services (or has this changed recently?) so you would think they will try and run a maximum peak frequency especially if it really does turn out to be that popular.

What would be maximum trains per hour, 8 or 12? Either way I'm sure the new line will have lots of redundancy built in if and when there's huge numbers using it.  It would be great if it was that successful.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
50 - 150K I have to ask the obvious according to who, and what base value real ones or the usual vastly over inflated ones that always crop up in every instance like this in SA, I wouldn't believe one media outlet in Australia for the truth..............nor any real estate agent likely to get a cut out of any sale.
AND at least the current government(s) are spending on public infrastructure, the altenative would have thrown up their hands long ago and "declared the country bankrupt" rather than borrow to (successfully) keep the economy buoyant. the current deficts are miniscule compared to others around the world, it might pay to remember that!
alcoworldseries

The government (DPTI) will solve the problem of those Hallett Cove residents by offering them (maybe) a one-off compensation payment of between $50k-$100k as I feel this is what their lawyers will tell them to do.  The residents sign a waive and get their cheque and everyone is happy; I think the engineers and lawyers will say that moving that tensioning station will cost more than just buying out the residents with a one-off ex gratia payment.  There are really so few people affected by this infrastructure that I would be surprised if it hasn't already happened.
  justapassenger Minister for Railways

The government (DPTI) will solve the problem of those Hallett Cove residents by offering them (maybe) a one-off compensation payment of between $50k-$100k as I feel this is what their lawyers will tell them to do.  The residents sign a waive and get their cheque and everyone is happy; I think the engineers and lawyers will say that moving that tensioning station will cost more than just buying out the residents with a one-off ex gratia payment.  There are really so few people affected by this infrastructure that I would be surprised if it hasn't already happened.
don_dunstan
Could it be that they were already offered 10-20k (in return for a non-disclosure agreement) and they chose to reject it?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Could it be that they were already offered 10-20k (in return for a non-disclosure agreement) and they chose to reject it?
justapassenger

Anything is possible but really there's only the civil court left open to the Hallett Cove residents if they choose to reject any ex-gratia offer.  The residents have to consider their position, being that they could drag this into civil court costing them (individually or collectively) tens of thousands to achieve what?  An extra twenty grand or so that might be eaten up with legal costs?  That's if they can get anywhere in court.  The Department will have their own estimates of what is reasonable compensation and they won't bat an eyelid at going to court; you don't have to be an expert to realise that they have deep pockets and in civil court it's usually a case of whoever runs out of money first loses regardless of who is right or wrong.

Once the project has been delivered and the trains are running all this fuss will be forgotten about.
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
What? Tension in a cable is constant and not dependant on where the force is applied.
Aaron
You really don't have much of a clue sometime Aaron.

When tension in the cable changes (heat/cold), it also pulls all of the cantilever arms along with it. The arms at the far end only move slightly, but at the end closest to the weights it becomes noticeable. At some stage the limit is reached for that section by how much misalignment is acceptable.

But as this isn't a straight section of track, things get more complex. Forces are transferred sideways as the wire tries to straighten itself, as obviously the cantilever arms and insulators are strong enough not to break, those forces also cause the arms to rotate around the attachment points on the poles. Almost certainly more force applied to wires on curved sections, than on straight as well. End result is the max length of wire on curves is less than that for straight sections.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
I will defer to Ian regarding political comment, perhaps it may be a good time to return this to a rail forum not the political bull ring the "Sadvertiser" gives ample coverage to political bulls*#t...........
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Well trying to return to this to on topic all Belair Line track work is done all that's left is signalling work then the line can be ready to be reopened after test trains (I'd personally expect the line to be reopened in 3 weeks). I'm a bit confused as to why Adelaide Metro hasn't set an official line reopening date yet the line is almost ready to be reopened and Belair Line users should be made aware the line is almost ready to be reopened while the Noarlunga Line users have to suffer a bit longer.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Well trying to return to this to on topic all Belair Line track work is done all that's left is signalling work then the line can be ready to be reopened after test trains (I'd personally expect the line to be reopened in 3 weeks). I'm a bit confused as to why Adelaide Metro hasn't set an official line reopening date yet the line is almost ready to be reopened and Belair Line users should be made aware the line is almost ready to be reopened while the Noarlunga Line users have to suffer a bit longer.
Milkomeda

There might be one or two things left to do with indefinite time-frames.  Good news though, a significant part of Adelaide's rail system is coming back on line, only the underpass left to do (I'm guessing?) and Seaford/Tonsley can re-open too.  Exciting times if you are a gunzel in Adelaide.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

First thing Ill be doing is going on the Belair Train for a good look at the underpass work the tram is alright but hopefully I'll be able to get a good closeup look of the underpass when the line reopens
  nm39 Chief Commissioner

Location: By a road taking pictures
Exciting times if you are a gunzel in Adelaide.
don_dunstan

Be ready for an imminent announcement about excitation down south from DPTI.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Be ready for an imminent announcement about excitation down south from DPTI.
nm39

Good news then - August?
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Be ready for an imminent announcement about excitation down south from DPTI.
"nm39"


Something about June 23rd? Smile
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

I wasn't living near the Noarlunga Line during the partial shutdown of the line back in 2011 which brings me to the question. What was the gap between the announcement of the line reopening to the actual line reopening?

Basically how much notice in advance did the Noarlunga Line commuters get when the line was partially shutdown in 2011 for its reopening.

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