S-set Scrapping has begun

 
  mboi84 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney
From what I've seen in others photos, the compound appears to be between the workshop area and the work train sidings, so not publicly accessible, or photograph-able without entering the site.
Raichase
Its hard to access. I did see the siding on the last Heritage Express tours which went via the chullora and enfield freight sidings.

There seems to be at least 3 to 6 8 car sets near the scrapping machine. There also appears to be a siding at port enfield where I saw at least 10+ 8 car S sets. Its seems that that siding does have overhead power but all the panto's seemed to be down. I did try to take pictures but was on the wrong side and my photo's weren't coming out (also had issues with my phone's camera at the time).

Sponsored advertisement

  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

Thanks a lot. I have seen the S Sets in Enfield and by the way, I heard that 28 4 car S sets are going to be overhauled at Broadmeadow.
Once again, thanks.
  wurx Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large

Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
Thanks a lot. I have seen the S Sets in Enfield and by the way, I heard that 28 4 car S sets are going to be overhauled at Broadmeadow.
Once again, thanks.
Silver S Set
Even as we speak, every week an S-set (whether 4 or 8 car consist I can't remember) is worked empty to Broadmeadow to get o/hauled/refurbed/whatever, and the crew of that empty bring one back (empty again, of course) that has already been done.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

Even as we speak, every week an S-set (whether 4 or 8 car consist I can't remember) is worked empty to Broadmeadow to get o/hauled/refurbed/whatever, and the crew of that empty bring one back (empty again, of course) that has already been done.
wurx
So quickly...
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
The consist run up to Broadmeadow appears to always be eight cars.
  electrax Assistant Commissioner

"Railway Digest", May 2013; p13, has a photo of S46 set at Broadmeadow on 22 March 2013, for refurbishment
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

"Railway Digest", May 2013; p13, has a photo of S46 set at Broadmeadow on 22 March 2013, for refurbishment
electrax
Does anyone have a pic of a finished set, its interior and exterior?
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Does anyone have a pic of a finished set, its interior and exterior?
Silver S Set
It looks exactly the same as the other S Set cars, only without logos or graffiti.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

It looks exactly the same as the other S Set cars, only without logos or graffiti.
Raichase
Oh, I thought the post somewhere above stated that it would have all sorts of new technology, better seats and much more...
I must have been stupid enough to believe that rumour. Embarassed
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
Oh, I thought the post somewhere above stated that it would have all sorts of new technology, better seats and much more...
I must have been stupid enough to believe that rumour. Embarassed
Silver S Set
The rumour going around for ages was that they were going up there for air conditioning to be installed, but that was always categorically false. The only reason they're going there is because Maintrain at Auburn is full of projects, and the S Sets needed to be done at the same time.
  Silver S Set Junior Train Controller

The rumour going around for ages was that they were going up there for air conditioning to be installed, but that was always categorically false. The only reason they're going there is because Maintrain at Auburn is full of projects, and the S Sets needed to be done at the same time.
Raichase
It will be handy if there would be air conditioning installed but I guess it is not worth the money.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
It will be handy if there would be air conditioning installed but I guess it is not worth the money.
"Silver S Set"
It is not just about the money. It is physically impossible.

Basically, the problem is space in the roof. Because our suburban trains are all double-deck, there is no underfloor room to put the train's magical 'stuff', consisting of the pantograph and other related equipment. This means that the 'stuff' has to go in the roof, and because the upper deck uses most of the roof, the only places in a suburban car where the 'stuff' can go are the two roof compartments atop each end of the car.

With the original design used for the S set cars, the control motor (the 'C' car) carries both the pantograph and the traction 'stuff'. The 'stuff' is at the cab end, and the pantograph is at the other end. This means that both compartments are already used, while the trailer (the 'T' car) doesn't carry anything in the roof. The space doesn't exist.

For the record, from the K set onwards, the pantograph was put on the trailer (either the 'T' car (K/C) or the 'D' car (T/M/H/A)) and the traction 'stuff' on the motor (either the 'C' car (K/C) or the 'N' car (T/M/H/A)), and the two cars each had their own air-conditioning unit, and formed 'married' pairs.

What this all means is that S sets are unique in their equipment configuration, and that configuration makes simple installation of air-conditioning impossible. If it was possible to do so so simply, it would have been done for Olympics. Certainly, one could install it in cabinets or some other unconventional setup, but at this point in their lives, is it really worth it? I think not.
  wurx Lithgovian Ambassador-at-Large

Location: The mystical lost principality of Daptovia
It is not just about the money. It is physically impossible.

Basically, the problem is space in the roof. Because our suburban trains are all double-deck, there is no underfloor room to put the train's magical 'stuff', consisting of the pantograph and other related equipment. This means that the 'stuff' has to go in the roof, and because the upper deck uses most of the roof, the only places in a suburban car where the 'stuff' can go are the two roof compartments atop each end of the car.

With the original design used for the S set cars, the control motor (the 'C' car) carries both the pantograph and the traction 'stuff'. The 'stuff' is at the cab end, and the pantograph is at the other end. This means that both compartments are already used, while the trailer (the 'T' car) doesn't carry anything in the roof. The space doesn't exist.

For the record, from the K set onwards, the pantograph was put on the trailer (either the 'T' car (K/C) or the 'D' car (T/M/H/A)) and the traction 'stuff' on the motor (either the 'C' car (K/C) or the 'N' car (T/M/H/A)), and the two cars each had their own air-conditioning unit, and formed 'married' pairs.

What this all means is that S sets are unique in their equipment configuration, and that configuration makes simple installation of air-conditioning impossible. If it was possible to do so so simply, it would have been done for Olympics. Certainly, one could install it in cabinets or some other unconventional setup, but at this point in their lives, is it really worth it? I think not.
Watson374
Well put Clap If it could have been done, it surely would have, and ages ago.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Well put Clap If it could have been done, it surely would have, and ages ago.
"wurx"
Thank you!

PS: There appeared to have been some issues with my formatting, rendering something which was supposed to be smaller, for de-emphasis, absolutely gigantic.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

S set Car change, sighted May 29 3064 and 4130 from S72 now in the consist of S98.


S98 consist 3064, 4130, 4932, 3939.
S72 consist to be confirmed 3809, 4977, 4936, 3052.


- Scott.
"scott4570"


The above consists should have read-

S98 consist 3064, 4130, 4936, 3052.
S72 consist to be confirmed 3809, 4977, 4932, 3939.

Apologies.
- Scott.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

S set Car changes, sighted June 12:-

4945 in set S8 and 4704 in set S47 swapped.
S8 consist 3982, 4704, 4974, 3074.
S47 consist 3028, 4945, 4931, 3890.

4943 from S67 now in S82, 4157 from S82 now in S67, 3050 from S41 now in S67, 3904 from S82 now in S41, 4118 and 3018 from S57 now in S67.
S41 consist 3920, 4033, 4053, 3904.
S67 consist 3066, 4157, 4118, 3018.
S82 consist 3954, 4093, 4943, 3050. (Note: 4943 and 3050 were the unallocated spare cars at Mortdale Car Sidings for many years)
S57 consist to be confirmed: 3011, 4042, 4077 (ex S67), 3079 (ex S67).

3939 from set S72 now in the consist of S53.
S53 consist: 3939, 4133, 4048, 3888.
S72 consist to be confirmed: 3809, 4977, 4932, 3857 (ex S53).


- Scott.
  Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Out of the Metrop
It is not just about the money. It is physically impossible...


Certainly, one could install it in cabinets or some other unconventional setup, but at this point in their lives, is it really worth it? I think not.
Watson374

Au contraire...

I recently had quite a long chat to a driver who prior to becoming a driver, used to work in the carriage workshops, back when they used to design and build almost everything in house.  He recalled to me that he had been involved in a project where they (the carriage builders) had been given the task of designing a solution for retrofitting Aircon to S Sets.  Interestingly, it took a lot of collaboration from the various departments within the workshops, but they actually succeeded in designing a way to retrofit aircon into S sets, despite the limitations you've correctly pointed out.
Basically they were looking at fitting the Auxiliary Output Device from a Tangara, and run the electrical current into the trailer cars by installing new 415V jumpers between the motor and trailer cars.  Where and how the actual aircon units would actually be installed in the trailer cars, is beyond my recollection of the conversation, but he did point out that after they had finished the project and the details had been given to the railway bosses and minister for consideration, it was deemed as unnecessary because the S sets would soon be withdrawn from service and thus it wasn't worth embarking upon such a project for such a short period of service... This was over 20 years ago...
He also pointed out that this was around the same time that certain government officials and consultants were pushing to shutdown and close as many seemingly surplus government divisisons and railway departments such as "Chullora Workshops" etc...  Embarking on such a program would've interfered with that objective as the workshop would've needed to stay open to complete the project...

It seems feasible...

...   If it was possible to do so so simply, it would have been done for Olympics...
Watson374


Unless it goes against the political objectives and paradigm of the government of the day... - As pointed out above...

Certainly, one could install it in cabinets or some other unconventional setup, but at this point in their lives, is it really worth it? I think not.
Watson374


Well, given that in house employees were able to come up with a solution with existing technology more than 20 years ago, then it is quite feasible that engineers should well be able to provide a more efficient and effective solution with much newer and advanced technology available today.  (Where the blueprints from the original upgrade project ended up is anyone's guess...)

Is it really worth it?  Well, to the travelers on the Illawarra? Nope, they couldn't care less.  For travelers on the ECRL and Northern Line? Probably not, they get plenty of Waratarts and OSCars and Tangaras.  For those travelling to and from the West and South West?  If they have to endure another 5 years or more before there are sufficient aircon rolling stock to allow the "NEW" table to be run with all the S sets retired, then for them it probably is worth the expense, considering some commuting up to 4-5 hours per day on the cursed things in the middle of summer...  Truth be told, retrofitting could probably be done for less than the price of new Waratarts...  realistically though, it would be a band aid fix for now and not a solution for the future...
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
That's very interesting, Black1050, because I was never aware that solutions were drawn up in-house by State Rail workshop engineers. I suspected as much, however, in the setup being based on additional cabling being run between motors and trailers to allow the bulk of the equipment to be installed on the trailers.

Of course, there is the political element.
  scott4570 Chief Train Controller

Between 6/5/13 and 20/5/13 the following moves have taken place at Enfield:

Road 4: 32 cars (previously in residence) have vacated, and another 16 cars have taken up in their place on Road 4.
From the western side, two cars can be identified in the 16 car line up: 3875 (North end, was in set S70) and 3035 (South end, was in set S76).

Road 5 still has 32 cars, but due to Road 4 only half filled you can see the following cars on Road 5:-
From North end: Set S119: 3919, 4934, 4937, 3855, coupled to this is set S73: 3061, 4103, 4055, 3047.
Behind these two sets you can see another set with car 4121 (was in consist of S60), and another set with car 4933 (was in consist of S144).

As at 1700 hours, Monday, 20/5/13, status at Enfield:-
Road 1 and Road 2: Empty (no cars)
Road 3: 24 cars (full)
Road 4: 16 cars
Road 5: 32 cars (full)

- Scott.
scott4570
Between 21/5/13 and 14/6/13 the following moves have taken place at Enfield:

Road 4: another 16 cars have taken up residency on Road 4.
From the western side, at the north end, 8 cars can be seen in the line up:
S54: 3040, 4165, 4978, 3045 and S72: 3857, 4932, 4977, 3809.

Road 2: 8cars have been placed on this road:
S57: 3011, 4042, 4077, 3079 and S49: 3010, 4038, 4985, 3808 (south end).

As at 1300 hours, Friday, 14/6/13, status at Enfield:-
Road 1: Empty (no cars room for 24)
Road 2: 8 cars (room for 16 more)
Road 3: 24 cars (full)
Road 4: 32 cars (full)
Road 5: 32 cars (full)

- Scott.
  Aurora8 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Sydney
It looks exactly the same as the other S Set cars, only without logos or graffiti.
"Raichase"

I've been seeing a few sets around without the CityRail branding. Is it safe to say that that means they have been overhauled at Broadmeadow or have some non-overhauled sets also had their CityRail branding removed?
  Raichase Captain Rant!

Location: Sydney, NSW
I've been seeing a few sets around without the CityRail branding. Is it safe to say that that means they have been overhauled at Broadmeadow or have some non-overhauled sets also had their CityRail branding removed?
Aurora8
Up until a few days ago, I would have said a resounding "yes". However now, I'm hearing of sets in depots having their logos removed in preparation for the change over, so I couldn't say for certain. A number of OSCars are getting around without logos, for example.
  Goose Chief Train Controller

Au contraire...

I recently had quite a long chat to a driver who prior to becoming a driver, used to work in the carriage workshops, back when they used to design and build almost everything in house.  He recalled to me that he had been involved in a project where they (the carriage builders) had been given the task of designing a solution for retrofitting Aircon to S Sets.  Interestingly, it took a lot of collaboration from the various departments within the workshops, but they actually succeeded in designing a way to retrofit aircon into S sets, despite the limitations you've correctly pointed out.
Basically they were looking at fitting the Auxiliary Output Device from a Tangara, and run the electrical current into the trailer cars by installing new 415V jumpers between the motor and trailer cars.  Where and how the actual aircon units would actually be installed in the trailer cars, is beyond my recollection of the conversation, but he did point out that after they had finished the project and the details had been given to the railway bosses and minister for consideration, it was deemed as unnecessary because the S sets would soon be withdrawn from service and thus it wasn't worth embarking upon such a project for such a short period of service... This was over 20 years ago...
He also pointed out that this was around the same time that certain government officials and consultants were pushing to shutdown and close as many seemingly surplus government divisisons and railway departments such as "Chullora Workshops" etc...  Embarking on such a program would've interfered with that objective as the workshop would've needed to stay open to complete the project...

It seems feasible...



Unless it goes against the political objectives and paradigm of the government of the day... - As pointed out above...



Well, given that in house employees were able to come up with a solution with existing technology more than 20 years ago, then it is quite feasible that engineers should well be able to provide a more efficient and effective solution with much newer and advanced technology available today.  (Where the blueprints from the original upgrade project ended up is anyone's guess...)

Is it really worth it?  Well, to the travelers on the Illawarra? Nope, they couldn't care less.  For travelers on the ECRL and Northern Line? Probably not, they get plenty of Waratarts and OSCars and Tangaras.  For those travelling to and from the West and South West?  If they have to endure another 5 years or more before there are sufficient aircon rolling stock to allow the "NEW" table to be run with all the S sets retired, then for them it probably is worth the expense, considering some commuting up to 4-5 hours per day on the cursed things in the middle of summer...  Truth be told, retrofitting could probably be done for less than the price of new Waratarts...  realistically though, it would be a band aid fix for now and not a solution for the future...
Black1050
Urban myth. It never happened.
  Johnny_Walton Railcorp Crash Test Dummy No.1

Location: Flemington Maintenance Centre
You can engineer ANYTHING if you throw enough dollars at a project!
If there was an inverter fitted to all S-set crew cabs to provide Air conditioning
Then anything is possible.
I am led to believe the system that powered the crew Air conditioning could have been fitted through all areas of the car.
Of course the dollar business case study killed it.
The crew cabs were fitted around the year 2000.
ALL these units are being discarded! WASTE!

Who would have thought all 620 class Railmotors would have compressor driven Crew cab Air conditioning fitted?
Well they did and they only lasted 8 years before they were discarded.

Perhaps passengers should have used the same OHS case as the crews did on S-sets and 620's?  Wink
The whole crew cab fitting of S-set air conditioning never really made the press.
In this age of social networking, perhaps a stronger case could have been made.

Jono.
  s3_gunzel Not a gunzel developer

Location: Western Sydney, AU
Well they did and they only lasted 8 years before they were discarded.
Johnny_Walton
8 years is a long time though. Maybe not in retrospect of their working lives, but it is still a considerable period.
  HeadShunt Chief Train Controller

It will be handy if there would be air conditioning installed but I guess it is not worth the money.
Silver S Set
Not only not worth it but a total waste of money. We've been coping with non AC trains since day dot. Some people need to down a can of cement and you know what.Razz

Sponsored advertisement

Display from:   

Quick Reply

We've disabled Quick Reply for this thread as it was last updated more than six months ago.