Goodwood Junction Underpass

 
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

To minimise disruption in the future, this may have been the perfect time to lower the floor on Sleeps Hill & Eden Hills tunnels in preparation for electrification. If only the bucket of money was bottomless!!
MaskedRailfan

I thought that was only half of the problem with electrifying the Belair Line. I heard the proximity to the Freight Line is the other reason why its not getting electrified.

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  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
I do believe the tunnel floors were lowered a number of years ago (AN days!)
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
I heard the proximity to the Freight Line is the other reason why its not getting electrified.
Milkomeda
Please elucidate.

Richard.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
Please elucidate.

Richard.
"rwatts"


To throw some light on the subject Richard ....
There are numerous problems because the land within the corridor is owned by two seperate entities. There are clearance issues with the need for some of the overhead needing to be built on and over ARTC land and infrastructure.
Whilst it is possible to do, I think it just all got too hard for Adelaide Metro to resolve!
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
To throw some light on the subject Richard ....
There are numerous problems because the land within the corridor is owned by two seperate entities. There are clearance issues with the need for some of the overhead needing to be built on and over ARTC land and infrastructure.
Whilst it is possible to do, I think it just all got too hard for Adelaide Metro to resolve!
Pressman
Would seem strange if the corridor itself was owned by the two entities however I can well imagine there being issues given the corridor is part of the DIRN. How does Sydney cope with the SSFL though?

I was aware of some clearance issues - back in 2005 a PN freight train had some metal plates shift slightly around Murray Bridge such that the load was out of guage.  Unfortunately at Eden Hills station the tracks were about 140mm closer than designed and 3107/3108 sitting at the platform was hit by the load.  

I was just curious if there had been acknowledgement - official or otherwise - that track clearance was an issue with electrification of the Belair line.

Richard.
  Pressman Spirit of the Vine

Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
To clarify, I meant that the "close proximity" of the land owned by each entity become problematic where overhead structure encroaches on the ARTC land, not that each entity own the same land.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

Would seem strange if the corridor itself was owned by the two entities however I can well imagine there being issues given the corridor is part of the DIRN. How does Sydney cope with the SSFL though?

I was aware of some clearance issues - back in 2005 a PN freight train had some metal plates shift slightly around Murray Bridge such that the load was out of guage.  Unfortunately at Eden Hills station the tracks were about 140mm closer than designed and 3107/3108 sitting at the platform was hit by the load.  

I was just curious if there had been acknowledgement - official or otherwise - that track clearance was an issue with electrification of the Belair line.

Richard.
rwatts


http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/completed_projects/belair

Right at the bottom
  rwatts Junior Train Controller

Location: Adelaide SA
http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/completed_projects/belair

Right at the bottom
Milkomeda
I possibly read it a little differently.  To me when it mentions the close proximity of the two lines I read that as more of an issue performing the work rather than having the electrified line that close to the freight line in the long run.  On the other hand I'm probably quite wrong.   Interesting though that the two tunnels are mentioned as an issue, but again that could be more along the lines of how best to provide clearance between the 25kV and the tunnel roofs (eg solid conductor a la the Fremantle tunnel in Perth).   Does anyone have a link to the $3million dollar Federal study mentioned?

Richard.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
To throw some light on the subject Richard ....
There are numerous problems because the land within the corridor is owned by two seperate entities. There are clearance issues with the need for some of the overhead needing to be built on and over ARTC land and infrastructure.
Whilst it is possible to do, I think it just all got too hard for Adelaide Metro to resolve!
Pressman
"Owned" is probably too strong a word: "controlled" might be better.

All of the land is owned by the SA Minister of Transport, and the DIRN is leased to ARTC Ltd in the shared corridor.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

It is probably an opportune time to remind readers that Neil and I propose making the Belair service light rail joining the bay tram route at Goodwood! (Ducks flaming arrows!)

As regard to the various "excuses" for not electrifying the Belair line things like clearances and land ownership do not seem to have affected the electrification of the lines through Wayville or Mile End or in future out to Dry Creek.

The two tunnels are an issue but can be resolved by lowered floors and solid conductor.

The bigger issues are demand and traffic growth. The areas served by the Belair line are unlikely to see significant urban infill and offer little opportunity for covering a larger area. Note that Seaford is still expanding as a suburb with growth extending well south and the inner suburbs along the line are ripe for infill development. The Seaford route is also able to see EMUs offer much faster services whereas the Belair route imposes its own speed restrictions.

DMU operation of the Belair line will eventually become uneconomic, the DMUs will wear out etc, and so appear very definitely yesterday's technology. It then becomes the time to make it light rail. LR voltages are much lower so clearances are significantly reduced and there is less hazard to ARTC personnel and persons using their track.

Ian
  Aaron The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It is probably an opportune time to remind readers that Neil and I propose making the Belair service light rail joining the bay tram route at Goodwood! (Ducks flaming arrows!)

As regard to the various "excuses" for not electrifying the Belair line things like clearances and land ownership do not seem to have affected the electrification of the lines through Wayville or Mile End or in future out to Dry Creek.

The two tunnels are an issue but can be resolved by lowered floors and solid conductor.

The bigger issues are demand and traffic growth. The areas served by the Belair line are unlikely to see significant urban infill and offer little opportunity for covering a larger area. Note that Seaford is still expanding as a suburb with growth extending well south and the inner suburbs along the line are ripe for infill development. The Seaford route is also able to see EMUs offer much faster services whereas the Belair route imposes its own speed restrictions.

DMU operation of the Belair line will eventually become uneconomic, the DMUs will wear out etc, and so appear very definitely yesterday's technology. It then becomes the time to make it light rail. LR voltages are much lower so clearances are significantly reduced and there is less hazard to ARTC personnel and persons using their track.

Ian
"steam4ian"

I think you'll find the tunnel floors cannot be lowered.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
I think you'll find the tunnel floors cannot be lowered.
Aaron
Eden Hills tunnel could be daylighted; one house has to go and a bridge put in place for Shepherd's Hill Road.

Did anyone else notice the electronic sign on South Road during May advertising the removal of the right turn into Shepherd's Hill Road said "Sheppards Hill Road"?
  redadare Junior Train Controller

Location: Flagstaff Hill
Eden Hills tunnel could be daylighted; one house has to go and a bridge put in place for Shepherd's Hill Road.

Did anyone else notice the electronic sign on South Road during May advertising the removal of the right turn into Shepherd's Hill Road said "Sheppards Hill Road"?
kipioneer
Yep. Had a laugh over that spelling mistrake Smile
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
well i believe that 4 things need to happen to give an electrified belair line and a better belair line:

1) lowering the track under the sleeps hill and eden hills tunnels.
2) liaising with the ARTcorp to allow the electric overhead infrastructure to be put in place over the adelaide metro line and the support poles to be put on the adelaide metro side.
3) reopen the disused stations so they are not a graffiti magnet and they are open for peak hours only on all stations to blackwood trains.
4) lengthen the sleeps hill, eden hills and blackwood passing loops slightly so that it is not a tight squeeze to access them.
  Mufreight Train Controller

Location: North Ipswich
The two tunnels mentiond while it is probably not a prefered option to lower the trackbed through them they could although a difficult operation on an in service rail line have the roof raised and or in the case of the Eden Hills tunnel be daylighted.
Either of these operations could be carried out with minimal disruption to rail services although in both cases costly.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
The two tunnels mentiond while it is probably not a prefered option to lower the trackbed through them they could although a difficult operation on an in service rail line have the roof raised and or in the case of the Eden Hills tunnel be daylighted.
Either of these operations could be carried out with minimal disruption to rail services although in both cases costly.
Mufreight
The Sleeps Hill tunnel is already Lowered on the standard gauge side but shutting down the Belair line is the only option to lowering the Adelaide Metro side of it. The Shepherd's Hill Road tunnel could be daylighted on both tracks and both parties would gain from it.

To all those that quote look at Sydney etc it might be better to look at Perth or Brisbane as the power here is going to be 25Kva same as Perth or Brisbane, Sydney or even Melbourne are only 1,500 volts rather low current against the rest of them. Higher voltages need more clearance all around the wire unless you want to cause a severe flash over or something.
  SAR520SMBH Junior Train Controller

Heath, I like your enthusiasm but I reckon the re opening of the disused stations on the Belair line has been done too death since the day they shut them down and stopped using them mate. I know I should never say never but I can't ever see them being used again, especially if, as has been said previously, they want to run an efficient 30 min service. I'm surprised they haven't been demolished yet.
Thoroughly agree with you steam4ian on the last paragraph of your previous post.
Once the DEMU days are numbered and if a light rail system isn't put in place I can see the Belair service being a thing of the past unfortunately.
  Milkomeda Chief Train Controller

If electric rail ever does become reality on the Belair Line then it would be possible to have those closed stations reopened since the EMUs have much better acceleration and can still provide the 30 minute service while catering to the closed stations otherwise it wouldn't be feasible option if the line remains a DMU line.
  kipioneer Chief Commissioner

Location: Aberfoyle Park
If electric rail ever does become reality on the Belair Line then it would be possible to have those closed stations reopened since the EMUs have much better acceleration and can still provide the 30 minute service while catering to the closed stations otherwise it wouldn't be feasible option if the line remains a DMU line.
Milkomeda
If it is electrified as light rail then I would throw out the present stations (including the closed ones) and start again.    I suspect the existing stations would stay more or less where they are but the closed stations might move.

Hawthorn could move towards Mitcham for example.   Unley Park could be staggered across Cross Road.

The Premier of the day lived immediately adjacent to the line in Denning Street right next to Hawthorn station.    Whether the station was there because the Premier was there, or the Premier was there because the station was there I cannot say.     The house is an early 1920s house as is much of the suburb.

Edit:  with light rail it is possible to have double track from Millswood to Mitcham.    The Belair line is centre of the reservation and the second track went on the western side which leaves a space on the eastern side.    A slight realignment of the SG track (shifting it its own width west) would allow platforms to be built for a light rail line.    The existing stations would be bulldozed.
  Gayspie Assistant Commissioner

Location: Adelaide, SA
like^^^^^
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

Steel fixing taking place for the floor of the decline on the down side taking place today.

It will be a massive pour when it takes place.
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Like the rest of the metro upgrade the job is being done properly not to a price
  defman Station Master

Like the REST OF THE METRO UPGRADE the job is being done properly not to a price
alcoworldseries
You have your tongue firmly in your cheek there surely.... surely you jest...!?!?!
  alcoworldseries Deputy Commissioner

Location: Auburn
Not tongue in cheek especially compared to non existant work done any time since 1976 when I started working for the SAR............stuff all real work was done hence the size of the project now.
I did work trains in conjunction with the Belair upgrade I know what work was done, I won't make political comment on the subject.
  steam4ian Chief Commissioner

I do know that the drainage on the Belair line had to be redesigned and redone after the line was returned to service.

I think a lesson was learned for Gawler and Noarlunga Centre.

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