S, C & K sets. How much longer will they survive

 
  Enoreth Station Staff

Location: Broadmeadow, Newcastle. New South Wales
When do you think the last C, K or S set will lower its pantograph for the last time? I'm curious to this because they seem common on the city circuit in Sydney but apparently they have began scrapping. When did they enter service? Should one of each set be preserved.

-Eno Silvie

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  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
Because the C and K sets are air-conditioned, there is no political imperative to get rid of them ASAP; therefore, I expect them to operate until they completely and utterly clap out.
  C3600 Train Controller

Location: Coniston
Well look at it this way, K sets have bucket loads of spare parts now and to a lesser extent C sets.
The C sets downfall will be chopper spares running out and will more than likely be outlived by the K sets.
  bernerd Junior Train Controller

I would expect 2019-2020, by which time a Sector 3 replacement fleet is ready.
  matthewg Train Controller

Well look at it this way, K sets have bucket loads of spare parts now and to a lesser extent C sets.
The C sets downfall will be chopper spares running out and will more than likely be outlived by the K sets.
C3600

The Mitsubishi chopper modules are probably already considered obsolete. The supervisory fault finding 'computer' certainly is.

It will come down to 'substitute' or scrap.

The Tangara fleet will be a bigger issue - many more of them, and by the time the electronics becomes hard to repair when Mitsubishi stop making the modules, there probably won't be enough service life left on their frames to be worth spending the money on an electronics/computer refit.
  Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.
The Tangara fleet will be a bigger issue - many more of them, and by the time the electronics becomes hard to repair when Mitsubishi stop making the modules, there probably won't be enough service life left on their frames to be worth spending the money on an electronics/computer refit.
"matthewg"
I'm hearing rumblings that the electronics and computers of the Tangaras are intended to be completely replaced as part of a supposedly imminent refurbishment project, that will apparently be much more extensive than the previous, partial 'Milgara' and 'Osgara' cosmetic refits.
  Goose Chief Train Controller

I'm hearing rumblings that the electronics and computers of the Tangaras are intended to be completely replaced as part of a supposedly imminent refurbishment project, that will apparently be much more extensive than the previous, partial 'Milgara' and 'Osgara' cosmetic refits.
Watson374
They are already working on that with redesigned TMS and doors etc.
  Johnny_Walton Railcorp Crash Test Dummy No.1

Location: Flemington Maintenance Centre
Hmmm.
I wonder how red rattlers ran from 1925 - the mid nineties?
How did various locomotives steam and diesel run for decades?
How does a bloody car run for 100 years!!
Think children!  
Use Google if you have to.  Mad

Jono.
  littleal9 Train Controller

Location: bellambi
Hmmm.
I wonder how red rattlers ran from 1925 - the mid nineties?
How did various locomotives steam and diesel run for decades?
How does a bloody car run for 100 years!!
Think children!  
Use Google if you have to.  Mad

Jono.
Johnny_Walton
They were not full of first generation electronics/computers that are no longer supported, plus the railways used to have a proper maintenance department (not denigrating the blokes doing the job now, but the powers that be running everything into the ground.)
  Nick-The-Great Station Staff

Location: Sydney
I won't miss the C sets. They're by far the least comfortable seats in the Cityrail fleet. I dread seeing one of those rolling down the platform!
  Black1050 Chief Train Controller

Location: Out of the Metrop
They were not full of first generation electronics/computers that are no longer supported, plus the railways used to have a proper maintenance department (not denigrating the blokes doing the job now, but the powers that be running everything into the ground.)
littleal9

I'm with Johnny on this one (actually I pretty much agree with everything he's got to say).  

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

Railways aren't the only ones who have had to work with technology that was surpased 20 years age.  Department of Defence and the armed forces have all had to work with ancient equipment (including computerised systems etc) despite much newer technology being in mainstream use, all due to bureaucratic limitations/red tape.  That is clear evidence that with determination and smart thinking outdated electronics etc can still be maintained and used well past their use by dates.

I don't believe it's mission impossible to modernise/replace Tangara TMS.  In truth, it should be fairly straight forward - depending on what constraints are put on the team doing the modernisation.  Provided they don't go trying to turn them into Mills or OSCars, it should be as case of creating new software that utilises the existing sensors and incorporates any new features that are to be implemented  - such as new train radio, ATP, new PEIs, and IEDRs.
Modern/remanufactured sets, eliminates the issues that stem from prior maintenance (at least for a short few years).
  littleal9 Train Controller

Location: bellambi
I'm with Johnny on this one (actually I pretty much agree with everything he's got to say).  

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

Railways aren't the only ones who have had to work with technology that was surpased 20 years age.  Department of Defence and the armed forces have all had to work with ancient equipment (including computerised systems etc) despite much newer technology being in mainstream use, all due to bureaucratic limitations/red tape.  That is clear evidence that with determination and smart thinking outdated electronics etc can still be maintained and used well past their use by dates.

I don't believe it's mission impossible to modernise/replace Tangara TMS.  In truth, it should be fairly straight forward - depending on what constraints are put on the team doing the modernisation.  Provided they don't go trying to turn them into Mills or OSCars, it should be as case of creating new software that utilises the existing sensors and incorporates any new features that are to be implemented  - such as new train radio, ATP, new PEIs, and IEDRs.
Modern/remanufactured sets, eliminates the issues that stem from prior maintenance (at least for a short few years).
Black1050
I also agree with Johnny, just answering his question, Not mission impossible to update the TMS, as you say, should be easy so long as those that know the system and whats needed are allowed to do the job properly, not the way the manager who's never driven / maintained / seen a train wants it.
  matthewg Train Controller

They were not full of first generation electronics/computers that are no longer supported, plus the railways used to have a proper maintenance department (not denigrating the blokes doing the job now, but the powers that be running everything into the ground.)
littleal9

They also had a lot more to do with design and construction of the trains, to the extent of sometimes designing AND building them in house. Now the buy pre-designed manufacture supported 'solutions'.
  electrax Assistant Commissioner

If you want information on every suburban and interurban electric vehicle that has operated over the system centred on Sydney, "Coaching Stock of the NSW Railways - Vol.3 - Electric Cars" (Eveleigh Press, Matraville, NSW) published in 2012 will answer any questions. Individual carriage histories are given.

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