Not only not worth it but a total waste of money. We've been coping with non AC trains since day dot. Some people need to down a can of cement and you know what.

Yeah you're right, screw modern technology! Before cars and trains were invented, we'd been coping just fine with horses and carriages since day dot. We should have just ignored progress and eaten some cement then too.

In the summer months I spoke to a guard whose S set got stuck in the middle of a section for over an hour due to track failures when the weather hit 45 degrees in Sydney. He virtually had a riot on his train from passengers unable to cope with the heat (bear in mind the external temperature may have been 45, but it was even higher inside the carriages). At one point the banging on his crew door became loud enough that he feared for his safety and contemplated an uncontrolled evacuation. I admit this is an extreme example, but would you say the crew should have just told their passengers to toughen up? Surely not.

As has been mentioned previously on this thread, the best reason not to spend money retrofitting the S sets with air con is that they're not going to be around much longer, not that passengers are soft and should just cope without it.

Yeah you're right, screw modern technology! Before cars and trains were invented, we'd been coping just fine with horses and carriages since day dot. We should have just ignored progress and eaten some cement then too.

I don't think they needed cement treatment back then, nor on trains from 1855 until about 1970. They just put up with the heat, although the doors could be opened on many older trains, which must have helped greatly. When AC didn't exist we couldn't dream about it or whinge because we didn't have it. It was just life. And yes, I think people did cope just fine with horses, carriages and mostly just their own two feet, much more sustainable methods of transport, albeit slow. It's a pity most of us can't do that anymore. Oh well...

In the summer months I spoke to a guard whose S set got stuck in the middle of a section for over an hour due to track failures when the weather hit 45 degrees in Sydney.

A mere track failure caused a 30 min delay? That's very bad luck on a 45 degree day.

I admit this is an extreme example, but would you say the crew should have just told their passengers to toughen up? Surely not.

No, I can't say I would have told them that under the circumstances; that would be provocative and probably in breach of some sort of code of conduct... I'll tell them that on his behalf, here and now lol... I appreciate that conditions can become very uncomfortable on those trains, even sauna-like, and have experienced it myself many times, although not with an ambient temperature of 45 degrees. Since it gets that bad maybe the trains should have been designed for better ventilation or with AC from the start. Some railways have door screens that allow the doors to be opened to increase airflow during extensive delays. Maybe that would have helped, too. None of this matters anymore, though...

Dungog Diesel, are you referring to the day Sydney Yard lost power in afternoon peak during a heat wave?

I don't think they needed cement treatment back then, nor on trains from 1855 until about 1970. They just put up with the heat, although the doors could be opened on many older trains, which must have helped greatly. When AC didn't exist we couldn't dream about it or whinge because we didn't have it. It was just life. And yes, I think people did cope just fine with horses, carriages and mostly just their own two feet, much more sustainable methods of transport, albeit slow. It's a pity most of us can't do that anymore. Oh well...

Don't forget that the windows back then opened properly too, to allow adequate ventilation. Where I live, we get the occasional non a/c bus, and they're a pleasure on hot days, because the windows open properly. Not to mention, trains were not crush loaded to the point of suffocation "back in the good old days" either.

Just one question, with the C sets maybe having their chopper system parts not being available anymore or close to it, could they not be overhauled with the same system the Tangaras may have with their new systems if and when they get it??

Just one question, with the C sets maybe having their chopper system parts not being available anymore or close to it, could they not be overhauled with the same system the Tangaras may have with their new systems if and when they get it??

Even though the Choppers were a trial for the Tangara control system. The parts are just too different to be retrofitted. I'm sure it COULD be done, but I doubt it. I'm sure they will just go on repairing the control systems as they fail. It's only electronic components.

Dungog Diesel, are you referring to the day Sydney Yard lost power in afternoon peak during a heat wave?

Quite possibly. The guard who told me the story may have incorrectly put it down to track failure, or I may have recounted the story incorrectly myself.

A mere track failure caused a 30 min delay? That's very bad luck on a 45 degree day

Yes you're quite right. See above.

And yes, I think people did cope just fine with horses, carriages and mostly just their own two feet, much more sustainable methods of transport, albeit slow. It's a pity most of us can't do that anymore. Oh well...

True. I do agree with your overall premise that Sydney public transport users (and perhaps 21st century society more broadly) could do with a serious dose of toughening up. And I agree with your point about more sustainable methods of transport too.

I just sympathise with some commuters who travel an hour each way in summer and are stuck with an S set morning and night. Personally I'll nostalgically miss the S sets (well, to some extent... let's not go overboard!) once they're gone, but I'm sure most commuters (and the passengers who were on that stranded train) will be happy to see the end of them.

True. I do agree with your overall premise that Sydney public transport users (and perhaps 21st century society more broadly) could do with a serious dose of toughening up.

That's what I am really thinking... just thought I'd be cheeky.

I just sympathise with some commuters who travel an hour each way in summer and are stuck with an S set morning and night. Personally I'll nostalgically miss the S sets (well, to some extent... let's not go overboard!) once they're gone, but I'm sure most commuters (and the passengers who were on that stranded train) will be happy to see the end of them.

They don't have the appeal of a Leeds Forge car, NSWGR-built DMU, U or V set, but I'll still miss them to some extent.
The Comeng-built variants aren't bad looking as far as suburban EMUs go, especially in red or PTC blue and white livery.

Even though the Choppers were a trial for the Tangara control system. The parts are just too different to be retrofitted. I'm sure it COULD be done, but I doubt it. I'm sure they will just go on repairing the control systems as they fail. It's only electronic components.

Converting the components to the spare S/L/R sets so they are more in line with the K Sets are more likely to help assist with fixing faults. As it stands, the C sets have the worst reliability issues in the fleet. And it doesn't help that its a small fleet and the chopper/electrical systems are causing most of the faults.

S set Car change, sighted June 27: 3856 from S86 now in the consist of S85.


S85 consist: 3856, 4964, 4948, 3869.
S86 consist to be confirmed: 3072, 4021, 4027, 3924.

- Scott.

With a variety of sources, I have managed to gain a list of S set cars that have been withdrawn, scrapped, refurbished and is still in service. And as I live in Perth now, I didn't record this is real life. This was sourced from different places, including the SETS Facebook page and Railpage Australia. Also I may have left a few things out, so I do apologise.

S sets in service:

S2: 3022-4064-4108-3031 (Ex S115)
S4: 3926-4128-4043-3937
S6: 3948-4075-4979-3979
S8: 3074-4974-4704-3949 (4945 swapped with 4704, 3982 swapped with 3949)
S12: 3927-4029-4923-3973 (3837-3850 swapped with 3927-3973)
S13: 3754-4070-4148-3036
S18: 3892-4922-4076-3925
S28: 3748-4101-4162-3976
S40: 3027-4955-4944-3062 (Ex S126)
S41: 3920-4033-4053-3904 (3904 swapped with 3050)
S43: 3049-4129-4114-3752
S44: 3917-4034-4008-3966
S45: 3021-4018-4938-3033
S46: 3883-4975-4019-3908
S47: 3028-4931-4945-3890 (4704 swapped with 4945)
S50: 3918-4972-4960-3969
S51: 3899-4107-4035-3765
S52: 3936-4940-4946-3051
S53: 3888-4048-4133-3939 (3857 swapped with 3939)
S55: 3005-4941-4013-3056
S56: 3862-4961-4968-3911
S61: 3930-4030-4037-3931
S63: 3853-4041-4976-3757 (3024 swapped with 3757)
S64: 3935-4111-4166-3026
S65: 3914-4122-4924-3921
S66: 3912-4715-4078-3932 (Ex S1)
S67: 3066-4157-4118-3018 (Ex S3. 4077-3079 swapped with 4118-3018, 4943 swapped with 4157, 4126 replaced by 4943)
S69: 3955-4050-4925-3957 (Ex S5)
S74: 3041-4031-4138-3071 (Ex S7)
S75: 3945-4023-4094-3968
S79: 3861-4012-4060-3755
S80: 3843-4140-4980-3048
S81: 3900-4163-4971-3910 (Ex S9)
S82: 3954-4093-4943-3050 (4157 swapped with 4943. 3050 swapped with 3904. 3068 swapped with 3904)
S83: 3080-4149-4007-3923
S85: 3856-4948-4964-3869 (3072 swapped with 3856. 3848 swapped with 3072)
S86: 3072-4021-4027-3924 (3856 swapped with 3072)
S87: 3003-4958-4159-3743
S89: 3744-4952-4953-3959
S90: 3889-4051-4957-3898
S91: 3759-4134-4135-3878 (3832 swapped with 3759)
S92: 3032-4926-4069-3956 (Ex S14)
S93: 3873-4151-4939-3928
S94: 3879-4947-4026-3938 (4127-3896 swapped with 4026-3938)
S95: 3046-4110-4152-3053 (Ex S19)
S97: 3902-4039-4057-3982 (3934-4701 swapped with 3902-4039, 3949 swapped with 3982)
S98: 3052-4936-4130-3064 (4977-3809 swapped with 4130-3064)
S99: 3913-4106-4950-3922 (Ex S114)
S100: 3891-4062-4123-3016 (Ex S24)
S101: 3044-4721-4112-3063 (Ex S25)
S111:3015-4067-4120-3017
S113: 3940-4028-4056-3916
S117: 3865-4921-4015-3986 (Ex S147)
S118: 3742-4116-4722-3746
S120: 3882-4951-4024-3953 (4934 swapped with 4951)
S122: 3009-4160-4942-3903
S123: 3915-4002-4049-3971
S124: 3874-4006-4716-3023 (3901 swapped with 3874)
S127: 3001-4016-4167-3764
S130: 3012-4136-4956-3745
S132: 3887-4927-4983-3947 (3906-4040 swapped with 3887-4927. 3845 swapped with 3906)
S133: 3059-4004-4054-3970
S134: 3060-4142-4154-3065
S135: 3871-4003-4046-3972
S136: 3004-4052-4014-3847
S137: 3067-4044-4969-3964
S138: 3006-4068-4073-3034
S139: 3030-4105-4949-3042 (3985 swapped with 3030)
S140: 3057-4143-4141-3058
S141: 3075-4119-4986-3961
S142: 3073-4959-4095-3946
S143: 3880-4161-4967-3951 (4714 swapped with 4967)
S145: 3039-4061-4032-3941 (3758-4117 swapped with 3039-4061)
S146: 3805-4164-4066-3828
S148: 3851-4962-4036-3960
S149: 3826-4966-4072-3078
S151: 3933-4125-4954-3983 (Ex S76)

S sets withdrawn:

S11: 3837-4708-4709-3850 (3927-3973 swapped with 3837-3850)
S16: 3944-4139-4930-3965 ~
S20: 3950-4984-4146-3977
S21: 3756-4022-4981-3760
S42: 3751-4005-4010-3763
S48: 3858-4717-4713-3897 (4039-3902 swapped with 4713-3897)
S49: 3010-4985-4038-3808
S54: 3040-4165-4978-3045
S57: 3011-4042-4077-3079 (4077-3079 swapped with 4118-3018)
S58: 3832-4702-4703-3848 (3072 swapped with 3848, 3759 swapped with 3832)
S59: 3019-4156-4701-3934 (4713-3897 swapped with 4701-3934)
S60: 3068-4121-4011-3963 (3904 swapped with 3068)
S62: 3002-4090-4169-3037
S66: 3980-4102-4109-3981 ~
S67: 3863-4963-4083-3868 ~
S68: 3814-4710-4025-3867* (I) (All except 3814)
S68: 3007-4132-4712-3753 (II) (Ex S57)
S69: 3029-4088-4973-3043 ~
S70: 3875-4137-4104-3985 (3030 swapped with 3985)
S71: 3831-4065-4155-3978
S72: 3809-4977-4932-3857 (3064-4130 swapped with 3809-4977. 3939 swapped with 3857. 4987-3810 swapped with 4932-3939)
S73: 3047-4103-4055-3061
S74: 3076-4124-4705-3741 ~
S76: 3035-4009-4001-3747
S77: 3881-4707-4929-3884
S78: 3025-4970-4170-3038
S81: 3812-4706-4718-3817 ~
S88: 3836-4153-4965-3014
S95: 3810-4987-4711-3974 ~ (3939-4932 swapped with 3810-4987)
S96: 3055-4071-4131-3962* (I)
S96: 3008-4145-4168-3967 (II) (Ex S128. 4723 swapped with 4145)
S100: 3929-4113-4115-3984 ~ (Ex S117)
S112: 3020-4158-4059-3077 (3807 swapped with 3077)
S116: 3758-4117-4935-3818 (3039-4061 swapped with 3758-4117)
S114: 3069-4144-4081-3952 (Ex S22)
S115: 3942-4045-4084-3761 (Ex S29)
S119: 3855-4934-4937-3919 (4951 swapped with 4934)
S121: 3806-4714-4982-3845 (4967 swapped with 4714, 3906 swapped with 3845)
S125: 3807-4147-4720-3876 (3077 swapped with 3807)
S129: 3894-4719-4723-3958* (4145 swapped with 4723)
S131: 3893-4150-4063-3943* (All but 4150)
S144: 3811-4933-4040-3906 (4927-3887 swapped with 4040-3906)

* = Scrapped
~ = At Chullora

Spare cars:

3013 - Spare car at MMC for many years. Now at FMC.
4126 - Accident Damaged, with withdrawn V sets. Won't be used.

Preserved cars: (Due to safety reasons, the S sets won't be sold to private buyers. Most will be scrapped, and only an absolute fraction will be kept).

3814 (S68 Mk I)-4150 (S131). 3805 (S146) (once retired from service).

Single S set cars scrapped:

3813
3750
3821
3842
3823
3829
3830
3860
3872
3885
3901
3975
3749
3024
3054
3762
3896-4127 (S94)

S sets that have been refurbished at UGL in 2013

S46/S55: 3908-4019-4975-3883-3056-4013-4941-3005
S61/S90: 3930-4030-4037-3931-3889-4957-4051-3898
S80/S100: 3048-4980-4140-3843-3891-4062-4123-3016
S69/S79: 3957-4925-4050-3955-3755-4060-4012-3861
S47/S81: 3028-4704-4931-3890-3900-4163-4971-3910
S77/S18: 3881-4707-4929-3884-3892-4922-4076-3925
S86/S4: 3856-4027-4021-3924-3926-4128-4043-3937
S52/S94: 3936-4940-4946-3051-3938-4026-4947-3879
S2/S51: 3031-4064-4108-3022-3765-4035-4107-3899
S50/S95: 3918-4972-4960-3969-3046-4152-4110-3053
S40/S91: 3062-4944-4955-3027-3759-4135-4134-3878



S sets at Chullora:

1st: (14/2)

3958-4723-4719-3894-3943-4063-3893
3762-3024-3750-4025-3867-3823-3813-3054
3962-4131-3860-4710-3901-3830-4071-3055
3842-3749-3829-3896-4127-3885-3975-3821-3872

2nd: (8/5)

3817-4718-4706-3812-3043
3974-4711-4987-3810-3868-4083-4963-3863-4973
3741-4705-4124-3076-3980-4102-4109-3981-4088
3965-4139-3984-4115-4113-3929-4930-3944-3029


(EDIT: Few more corrections made. As of 13/7 further corrections have also been made)

With a variety of sources, I have managed to gain a list of S set cars that have been withdrawn, scrapped, refurbished and is still in service. I don't know the consist of the new S117, so I do apologise. And as I live in Perth now, I didn't record this is real life. This was sourced from different places, including the SETS Facebook page and Railpage Australia. Also I may have left a few things out, so I do apologise.

In reference to the above, I would like to correct and/or further advise the following:-



S21: 3756-4922-4081-3760, trailer cars should read 4022, 4981. (4922 is in consist of S18 and 4081 is currently at Enfield)

S117: 3865-4921-4015-3986 (Ex S146), sighted this set S117 in that consist 21/6/13.


S145: 3758-4117-4042-3941, sighted this set 28/6/13 with consist 3039, 4061, 4032, 3941. (3039 & 4061 from S116, car 4042 is at Enfield)


S97: 3902-4039-4057-3949 (3934-4701 swapped with 3902-4039), this set was sighted 27/6/13 in that consist.


Single car 3013 (previously spare Motor car at Mortdale Car Sheds), sighted 14/6/13 at Flemington Car Sheds.


Between 14/6/13 and 28/6/13 another 8cars have taken up residency at Enfield on No.2 Road:-
set S62: 3037, 4169, 4090, 3002, and set S21: 3760, 4981, 4022, 3756.

- Scott.

In reference to the above, I would like to correct and/or further advise the following:-



S21: 3756-4922-4081-3760, trailer cars should read 4022, 4981. (4922 is in consist of S18 and 4081 is currently at Enfield)

S117: 3865-4921-4015-3986 (Ex S146), sighted this set S117 in that consist 21/6/13.


S145: 3758-4117-4042-3941, sighted this set 28/6/13 with consist 3039, 4061, 4032, 3941. (3039 & 4061 from S116, car 4042 is at Enfield)


S97: 3902-4039-4057-3949 (3934-4701 swapped with 3902-4039), this set was sighted 27/6/13 in that consist.


Single car 3013 (previously spare Motor car at Mortdale Car Sheds), sighted 14/6/13 at Flemington Car Sheds.


Between 14/6/13 and 28/6/13 another 8cars have taken up residency at Enfield on No.2 Road:-
set S62: 3037, 4169, 4090, 3002, and set S21: 3760, 4981, 4022, 3756.

- Scott.

Dang, thanks for that Scott. I'll correct the following.

There is a condemned 8 Car S set out the back of Hornsby MC at the moment, as well as (from what I have been told) A condemned 4 car K set. HMC1989 would probably know more about the K set.

I'm on S122. The digit "1" seems to be a recent addition. Reason?

I'm on S122. The digit "1" seems to be a recent addition. Reason?

Previously, Sector 3 "S" set numbering commenced at about S76, but as the 6car "R" sets were dissolved into 4car "S" sets, the allocation of numbers changed, Sector 2 sets could use the numbers up to about S99 (later to S101), and Sector 3 were allocated numbers from S111 and beyond.


- Scott.

With a variety of sources, I have managed to gain a list of S set cars that have been withdrawn, scrapped, refurbished and is still in service. I don't know the consist of the new S117, so I do apologise. And as I live in Perth now, I didn't record this is real life. This was sourced from different places, including the SETS Facebook page and Railpage Australia. Also I may have left a few things out, so I do apologise.

A further correction required:-

S148: 3851-4982-4036-3960 (4962 swapped with 4982), sighted this set 28/6/13, 4982 should read 4962. Trailer car 4982 is at Enfield in set S121.
(This may be a flow-on mistake from a earlier post).


To complete the picture, no mention of the following, if anyone could help:-


S11: 3837, 4708, 4709, 3850  --  transferred from Mortdale CS to Flemington CS in January 2013, but now estimated to be on Road No.5 at Enfield, hidden from view.
Single Trailer Car 4126 (from Sector 1), was down the back of MainTrain from January 2012 (approx.), keeping company with withdrawn Intercity Cars.

- Scott.

A further correction required:-

S148: 3851-4982-4036-3960 (4962 swapped with 4982), sighted this set 28/6/13, 4982 should read 4962. Trailer car 4982 is at Enfield in set S121.
(This may be a flow-on mistake from a earlier post).


To complete the picture, no mention of the following, if anyone could help:-


S11: 3837, 4708, 4709, 3850  --  transferred from Mortdale CS to Flemington CS in January 2013, but now estimated to be on Road No.5 at Enfield, hidden from view.
Single Trailer Car 4126 (from Sector 1), was down the back of MainTrain from January 2012 (approx.), keeping company with withdrawn Intercity Cars.

- Scott.

Corrections updated. Thanks.

Eight car untargetted S set noted on Sector 1 this evening operating the 18:10 Hurstville - Bondi Junction.

There is a condemned 8 Car S set out the back of Hornsby MC at the moment, as well as (from what I have been told) A condemned 4 car K set. HMC1989 would probably know more about the K set.

Correct Highrise,

S112 & S116 are on 11 road and have been condemned. They are quite useful for parts ATM. Also the K set is not condemned but undergoing repairs. It is waiting for parts to complete re-wiring internally.

Correct Highrise,

S112 & S116 are on 11 road and have been condemned. They are quite useful for parts ATM. Also the K set is not condemned but undergoing repairs. It is waiting for parts to complete re-wiring internally.

Info updated. Thanks HMC1989. Do you know what set number the K set is?

Chullora update:

The following cars have now been scrapped:

3817-4718-4706
3974-4711-4987-3810-3868-4963-4083
3741-4705-4124-3076-3981-4109-4102
3965-4139-3984-4115-4113-3929-4930


That makes:

3812-3043
3863-4088
3981-4973
3944-3029

the last ones remaining of the second lot.

Eight car untargetted S set noted on Sector 1 this evening operating the 18:10 Hurstville - Bondi Junction.

There doesn't appear to be any STNs in operation for this working.

When the S sets left the Illawarra (Sector 1), it was decided that each week 1 x 8S set would be transferred from Flemington CS to Mortdale CS for routine maintenance to assist the workload at Flemington and to use up the existing stock of spare componemts amd parts at Mortdale.

Mortdale was instructed not to use this 8S in Revenue service.
So, maybe Mortdale has ignored such instruction or is suffering with a shortage of available T sets.


- Scott.

Scott, before you go putting the cart ahead of the horse and jumping to conclusions, I'd remind everyone that a number of standby trains are C/S Sets and Waratahs. This is why those two set types will occasionally make their way down to the Illawarra, although the latter will typically only operate on very restricted grounds due to crew qualifications. The S Set would have likely been a FMC S Set brought from Macdonaldtown, FMC or Olympic Park to operate services due to a failed Tangara or problems elsewhere on the line causing possible delays.

Scott, before you go putting the cart ahead of the horse and jumping to conclusions, I'd remind everyone that a number of standby trains are C/S Sets and Waratahs. This is why those two set types will occasionally make their way down to the Illawarra, although the latter will typically only operate on very restricted grounds due to crew qualifications. The S Set would have likely been a FMC S Set brought from Macdonaldtown, FMC or Olympic Park to operate services due to a failed Tangara or problems elsewhere on the line causing possible delays.

Yes, you are correct.

I withdraw the last post.


My apologies.
- Scott.