Humbrol paint of late

 
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I have had and a lot of others have had a problem with Humbrol paints not all of them just some of them of late. You paint something the usual way and it takes days sometimes even a week before it is no longer tacky. I have wondered about this for a while but got the answer to it the other day. Humbrol paints were being made in China and the quality varied greatly according to Humbrol them selves. The Humbrol paint manufacturing is now going to be moved back to Britain to have greater quality control over the finished product.

I have a  brand new tin of Crimson number 20 gloss that is that see through that you could use it for painting signal globes, after 4 or more coats on a model it still shows the base colour through it, I spent 20 minutes one day stirring it up, I even resorted to the old painters trick of warming it up in a container of hot water, nope the paint is just NBG. I since have got other tins of it from other shops it is the paint itself not just a crook tin of it.

So if you use Humbrol paints and have had some trouble with it it is not you it is the paint, it is c**p at times. Hopefully they will get the new British made paint on the market quickly. So much for outsourcing things.

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  anzac1959 Chief Commissioner

Trust British paints , sure can !

I used to work in a factory making Glad wrap and plastic garbage bags . If I used even the best branded paint it wouldn't dry in that atmosphere . We asked the "ulux reps and they didn't have an answer.
  Z1NorthernProgress2110 Chief Commissioner

Location: Burnie, Tasmania
Not only takes ages to dry, often the shade is wrong too. I got a tinlet number 5 dark admiral grey, after a shake as per tin, open it up and its light grey! Have a tinlet of 47 sea blue too and the paint wouldn't mix right, wouldn't even go on properly either.
  VRfan Moderator

Location: In front of my computer :-p
I've found humbrol paint doesn't spray as good as it used to. It doesn't mix well (even with humbrol thinners) and tends to clump.
  jamiepb Junior Train Controller

I've found humbrol paint doesn't spray as good as it used to. It doesn't mix well (even with humbrol thinners) and tends to clump.
VRfan
I thought it was me. Glad to know it's them.
  The railway dog Junior Train Controller

For me one of the advantages of Humbrol is its availability, you can get it pretty much anywhere. But I've always had mixed results with it, sometimes too thick, others too thin. Don't think I've ever sprayed it. Hope this latest problem is sorted soon.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I certainly hope that Humbrol/Hornby clearly mark the tins made in the UK as such so we can avoid buying the Chinese crap.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I would like to know a couple of things regarding all the paints.  Firstly & specific to Humbrol paints.

I purchased a few tins around 5 years ago on special in a clearance sale, they were colours not usually associated with model railways but a good price & as it has turned out suitable colours for buildings.  This past week I opened 3 tins for the first time, the first being excellent & for small work it brushed on well, it dried quick with no issues but the colour was totally yuck & painted over by another one out of the same batch, which also went on well & unlike the first tin, this one will get used again whereas the other one will not.

The 3rd tin was exactly as others have described it brushed well, but did not cover any of the primer colour, I tried it on a bit of styrene & the first time I have ever noticed a paint not giving a generally good cover even on styrene.  On the styrene though it took around 48 hours to be touch dry, whereas the other painted area over primer took 5 days before it was touch dry.  While the weather overnight has had a lot of dew, the days were generally sunny & quite warm, & while I usually expect a longer drying time in this sort of weather, never had anything like this happen before.

At the same time I also had some Revell tins also purchased at the same time, they went on well & dried overnight no issues what so ever.  Making me consider the Revel brand in preference to Humbrol.

The other question in all of this & is off topic, so could be shifted to a new thread, is the question of who owns what brand?

With the recent announcement that Testors (IIRC) that they are dumping the Floquil/Poly Scale brands along with a couple of others to concentrate on the Testors label, I am wondering who actually owns what brands these days?

Associated with this last question is the availability of paints & who stocks what. While this may be hard, in many ways its a bit of a dogs breakfast trying to source paints these days, & making me think about whether or not going to some of the auto paint places to get them to make up tins, while there may be a fair bit of wastage, it may work out cheaper anyway as the price of the little tins/bottles of hobby paints is not cheap either.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I have only ever rarely used Humbrol paint, generally when I do it's their white that I am using, that's never been easy to spray, and the last time I bought Humbrol white it was being particularly difficult. I picked up a tin of Revell white instead, I preferred the white, and it sprayed easily for me too. When I get near the bottom of the tin I'll probably use the leftover to spray myself a sample chip and get the boys at my local Solver to match me up a 1 litre tin.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
I would like to know a couple of things regarding all the paints.  Firstly & specific to Humbrol paints.

I purchased a few tins around 5 years ago on special in a clearance sale, they were colours not usually associated with model railways but a good price & as it has turned out suitable colours for buildings.  This past week I opened 3 tins for the first time, the first being excellent & for small work it brushed on well, it dried quick with no issues but the colour was totally yuck & painted over by another one out of the same batch, which also went on well & unlike the first tin, this one will get used again whereas the other one will not.

The 3rd tin was exactly as others have described it brushed well, but did not cover any of the primer colour, I tried it on a bit of styrene & the first time I have ever noticed a paint not giving a generally good cover even on styrene.  On the styrene though it took around 48 hours to be touch dry, whereas the other painted area over primer took 5 days before it was touch dry.  While the weather overnight has had a lot of dew, the days were generally sunny & quite warm, & while I usually expect a longer drying time in this sort of weather, never had anything like this happen before.

At the same time I also had some Revell tins also purchased at the same time, they went on well & dried overnight no issues what so ever.  Making me consider the Revel brand in preference to Humbrol.

The other question in all of this & is off topic, so could be shifted to a new thread, is the question of who owns what brand?

With the recent announcement that Testors (IIRC) that they are dumping the Floquil/Poly Scale brands along with a couple of others to concentrate on the Testors label, I am wondering who actually owns what brands these days?

Associated with this last question is the availability of paints & who stocks what. While this may be hard, in many ways its a bit of a dogs breakfast trying to source paints these days, & making me think about whether or not going to some of the auto paint places to get them to make up tins, while there may be a fair bit of wastage, it may work out cheaper anyway as the price of the little tins/bottles of hobby paints is not cheap either.
"a6et"

Floquil, Polyscale etc are Testors, Humbrol is part of the Hornby conglomerate, Revell is German - probably why it's still a good product, Revell is owned by Hobbyco, Hobbyco is owned by it's employees - probably why they still make good paint.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Floquil, Polyscale etc are Testors, Humbrol is part of the Hornby conglomerate, Revell is German - probably why it's still a good product, Revell is owned by Hobbyco, Hobbyco is owned by it's employees - probably why they still make good paint.
Aaron
Thanks Aaron

I have been using Floquil & Poly Scale paints, & have not had any problems with them, thankfully I have enough left for the tasks I need.  Tamiya has been ok & there are some excellent colours in the range that I use for loco side rods & wheels that I have yet to find in any other brand.

I have to say though in regard to Revell paints, they are the pick of the enamels in both brushing & spraying, just expensive though when you need more than a little tin.

The Solver paints you mention, are they suitable for air brushing, we have a couple of paint stores around here that do matching & stock Solver paints.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Any paint shop that can mix paint should be able to mix you a larger tin of paint and get it pretty well right it might not be right on the mark, but then some Humbrol colours are way off the mark now anyway. Gone are the days when you could run out of Humbrol paint and simply get another tin to finish the job with. It was not recommended to do this even back then but there were times it had to be done though.

One other trick with Humbrol paint after you shake the tin up is to thoroughly stir it up with a flat wide piece of something. Icecream sticks are superb for this and new ones can be purchased from places like the Reject shop or similar in the craft section. You get a whole bag of them for a couple of dollars. The sediment (Pigment) in the bottom of the tin needs to be mixed in thoroughly with the rest on the top before using it for any painting. Sometimes it takes a good 5 minutes to mix it all together.

Yes I do hope they mark the new tins so that they can be clearly seen from the Chinese made ink (C**p) that they now sell, how long this will take though to get it back into full production in Britain again is also a good question.

But the drying time and coverage of the modern Chinese stuff varies tin by tin and you can expect it to do anything and everything even if you do it the way you have always done it. So if you are having trouble with this brand of paint it is the paint in most cases not just you doing something wrong.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Any paint shop that can mix paint should be able to mix you a larger tin of paint and get it pretty well right it might not be right on the mark, but then some Humbrol colours are way off the mark now anyway. Gone are the days when you could run out of Humbrol paint and simply get another tin to finish the job with. It was not recommended to do this even back then but there were times it had to be done though.

One other trick with Humbrol paint after you shake the tin up is to thoroughly stir it up with a flat wide piece of something. Icecream sticks are superb for this and new ones can be purchased from places like the Reject shop or similar in the craft section. You get a whole bag of them for a couple of dollars. The sediment (Pigment) in the bottom of the tin needs to be mixed in thoroughly with the rest on the top before using it for any painting. Sometimes it takes a good 5 minutes to mix it all together.

Yes I do hope they mark the new tins so that they can be clearly seen from the Chinese made ink (C**p) that they now sell, how long this will take though to get it back into full production in Britain again is also a good question.

But the drying time and coverage of the modern Chinese stuff varies tin by tin and you can expect it to do anything and everything even if you do it the way you have always done it. So if you are having trouble with this brand of paint it is the paint in most cases not just you doing something wrong.
David Peters
Yes, pretty well any paint shop can colour match, & while no issue with it for brushing, the key though is with using it in air brushes owing to the model paints having finer pigments.  Many go to the Auto paint shops & get the auto Acrylics which require enamel type thinners when needed, rather than water in model & ordinary Acrylic type paints.

These are fine but usually a minimum of 250ml is required ok for some colours that are frequently used.
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Thanks Aaron

I have been using Floquil & Poly Scale paints, & have not had any problems with them, thankfully I have enough left for the tasks I need.  Tamiya has been ok & there are some excellent colours in the range that I use for loco side rods & wheels that I have yet to find in any other brand.

I have to say though in regard to Revell paints, they are the pick of the enamels in both brushing & spraying, just expensive though when you need more than a little tin.

The Solver paints you mention, are they suitable for air brushing, we have a couple of paint stores around here that do matching & stock Solver paints.
"a6et"

I use Solver, because frankly, I live within maybe 500m of their store and I am no fan of Bunnings, AND Solver make decent high gloss enamel.

If it's a custom 'mix' you want (as in some secret recipe you make from a selection of Humbrol/Floquil etc colours) then spend a bit of time 'tuning' your colour to exactly what you want, you're about to acquire a lot of it, and you might as well have it right! Having done this I take a random off cut of styrene, spray up a good postage stamp size 'swatch' let it dry, check the colour and shoot down to Solver telling them 'I want a copy of this in the most gloss enamel you have, none of that acrylic smeg'. They take my sample, put in their computer and invariably say 'hmmm that requires a strong base, it's going to be quite expensive...' So I enquire as to price 'Oh, the minimum tin size is going to be a litre and the paint is going to be like $22.50 for the tin'. This results in me not being able to hand over some cash quick enough with a response of 'Are you crazy? The sample I bought down cost me something like $6.90 for 30ml!

The stuff thins and sprays EXACTLY like just about any other paint. I have litre tins of SAR greys, road grey, underframe black, SAR bluebird blue (Galaxy Blue from Dulux in that case), white and yellow - both of which thin and spray way easier than Humbrol and SAR regal red - which I think if I remember rightly was matched from a sample of regal red paving paint, the boys opened their tin of paving paint, dipped a finger and wiped it on some card and matched it in enamel for me...

Sure I will never get to the bottom of the tins, but I only have to use about 100ml to break even vs the model paint, and that's very easily achievable.

I generally decant out about 100ml and work from that, thinned down that's a lot of paint! Generally, I will recycle my excess dirty thinners from airbrush cleaning back into this 100ml container, with some time this gradually alters the colour of that sample which aids in a 'non uniform' colour look across painted batches, meaning I don't have 100 models all identically painted. If my gradual polluting of the colour gets too outrageous I either add some more of base colour, or ditch the sample and start with a fresh 100ml from my pristine tin. Clearly, this is not something you can do with every colour, I always keep my white pure...
  a6et Minister for Railways

I use Solver, because frankly, I live within maybe 500m of their store and I am no fan of Bunnings, AND Solver make decent high gloss enamel.

If it's a custom 'mix' you want (as in some secret recipe you make from a selection of Humbrol/Floquil etc colours) then spend a bit of time 'tuning' your colour to exactly what you want, you're about to acquire a lot of it, and you might as well have it right! Having done this I take a random off cut of styrene, spray up a good postage stamp size 'swatch' let it dry, check the colour and shoot down to Solver telling them 'I want a copy of this in the most gloss enamel you have, none of that acrylic smeg'. They take my sample, put in their computer and invariably say 'hmmm that requires a strong base, it's going to be quite expensive...' So I enquire as to price 'Oh, the minimum tin size is going to be a litre and the paint is going to be like $22.50 for the tin'. This results in me not being able to hand over some cash quick enough with a response of 'Are you crazy? The sample I bought down cost me something like $6.90 for 30ml!

The stuff thins and sprays EXACTLY like just about any other paint. I have litre tins of SAR greys, road grey, underframe black, SAR bluebird blue (Galaxy Blue from Dulux in that case), white and yellow - both of which thin and spray way easier than Humbrol and SAR regal red - which I think if I remember rightly was matched from a sample of regal red paving paint, the boys opened their tin of paving paint, dipped a finger and wiped it on some card and matched it in enamel for me...

Sure I will never get to the bottom of the tins, but I only have to use about 100ml to break even vs the model paint, and that's very easily achievable.

I generally decant out about 100ml and work from that, thinned down that's a lot of paint! Generally, I will recycle my excess dirty thinners from airbrush cleaning back into this 100ml container, with some time this gradually alters the colour of that sample which aids in a 'non uniform' colour look across painted batches, meaning I don't have 100 models all identically painted. If my gradual polluting of the colour gets too outrageous I either add some more of base colour, or ditch the sample and start with a fresh 100ml from my pristine tin. Clearly, this is not something you can do with every colour, I always keep my white pure...
Aaron
Again Aaron, Thanks for the reply.

We have an agent for Solver paints in Gosford, & what is good is that its also an agent that stocks the clear acrylic paint extender I use in thinned down mode for Matte Medium gluing purposes, thus it will be a handy place to visit.

I also have a collection of glass bottles with thinners & shades of colours in them, & like you I do not like one wagon/loco or for that matter buildings to have the same painted look about them.
  The railway dog Junior Train Controller

Just bought a tin, looks English, No 24. On opening it found a  different colour to what's on the lid. Not talking shades, completely different.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Just bought a tin, looks English, No 24. On opening it found a  different colour to what's on the lid. Not talking shades, completely different.
The railway dog
Some colours when you open them have separated out into pigment and clear base so it might look different but once you thoroughly stir it all up it should change to the colour that was supposed to be in the tin. I have had quite a few friends fall for this thinking that they had been sold a dud. However if you have stirred it up and it is still not the right colour you just might have a rogue tin that got the wrong lid put on it at the factory. These things can happen though. I have never struck that though in all the years of using Humbrol paint but there is always a first time.

That should be  Matt trainer yellow this could need a simple stirring to mix it all though, shaking the tin with lid on does not always mix Humbrol paints enough. I usually start by shaking the tin first up then opening the tin a giving it a stir with an old ice cream stick before using it and if doing a big job stir it up again every so often as well. That usually does the trick.
  The railway dog Junior Train Controller

Some colours when you open them have separated out into pigment and clear base so it might look different but once you thoroughly stir it all up it should change to the colour that was supposed to be in the tin. I have had quite a few friends fall for this thinking that they had been sold a dud. However if you have stirred it up and it is still not the right colour you just might have a rogue tin that got the wrong lid put on it at the factory. These things can happen though. I have never struck that though in all the years of using Humbrol paint but there is always a first time.

That should be  Matt trainer yellow this could need a simple stirring to mix it all though, shaking the tin with lid on does not always mix Humbrol paints enough. I usually start by shaking the tin first up then opening the tin a giving it a stir with an old ice cream stick before using it and if doing a big job stir it up again every so often as well. That usually does the trick.
David Peters

Thanks for the kind thoughts, but the most energetic stirring makes no difference. What's in the tin's an industrial yellow sort of colour, quite different to the tan & almost olive (to my eye) yellow tone on the lid.

By the way, what horrible crime have you committed to be saddled with the "Dr Beeching" tag?
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
Oh don't go by the colour on the lid they are way out what I would assume is you chose the colour from the lid of the tin and not from a previous tin or paint chart. The lid colours on most of Humbrol tins are way out some that appear flat are really gloss and vice a versa. What is in the tin is probably the right colour though. This is another trap unless you use certain colours all the time, I have three tins of Humbrol Satin brown number 133 and each tin has a different colour or sheen on it, one is almost maroon and appears to be gloss and the other two one lid is the right colour almost but matt flat paint and the other is again the right colour but sort of a satin sheen on it. Even Humbrol colour charts are way off the mark as well. In the current Humbrol paint chart Humbrol number 2 which is Emerald or AN green is a a very dark insipid green colour no where near what is in the can.
  The railway dog Junior Train Controller

Oh don't go by the colour on the lid they are way out what I would assume is you chose the colour from the lid of the tin and not from a previous tin or paint chart. The lid colours on most of Humbrol tins are way out some that appear flat are really gloss and vice a versa. What is in the tin is probably the right colour though. This is another trap unless you use certain colours all the time, I have three tins of Humbrol Satin brown number 133 and each tin has a different colour or sheen on it, one is almost maroon and appears to be gloss and the other two one lid is the right colour almost but matt flat paint and the other is again the right colour but sort of a satin sheen on it. Even Humbrol colour charts are way off the mark as well. In the current Humbrol paint chart Humbrol number 2 which is Emerald or AN green is a a very dark insipid green colour no where near what is in the can.
David Peters

Yair, I've noticed the differences, but this is a bloody shocker, way out & no use at all for what I wanted to do. Anyways, enough whingeing, nothing to be done about it. But I don't have any natural understanding of colour, can't look at something & say "it needs more blue in it" or somesuch, & what was on the lid looked like a good start. But at least it works as a paint, none of the problems listed at the start of this thread.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I think all these problems being raised point to why Hornby are bringing manufacture back to Britain.
  nswtrains Chief Commissioner

I think all these problems being raised point to why Hornby are bringing manufacture back to Britain.
TheBlacksmith
I have had experience with Humbrol paints going back much further than I care to remember and I never did think it was much chop compared to the US Brands. The Japanese stuff is also good but there are not many matches for USA railroad colours. I am not sure about matches for OZ railroad colours.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
I have had experience with Humbrol paints going back much further than I care to remember and I never did think it was much chop compared to the US Brands. The Japanese stuff is also good but there are not many matches for USA railroad colours. I am not sure about matches for OZ railroad colours.
nswtrains
Sadly, because of the issue of flammability of paint and not being able to ship it by air, the situation is not going to get better in the future. The best we can hope for is a good supply of non-flammable acrylic paints. We can't even solve the problem here in Australia because a paint manufacturer will be limited to selling in their own local area for the same reasons.
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I certainly hope that Humbrol/Hornby clearly mark the tins made in the UK as such so we can avoid buying the Chinese crap.
TheBlacksmith
Your prayers have been answered Blacksmith the newer tins have a Union Jack marked on them along with the words "Made in the UK" alongside it. I cannot put up photos on here so I will provide you with a link to my website to show you what a new tin of Humbrol paint now looks like. You may have to scroll down to find it though on this page.

http://southozrail.freeforums.org/on-your-workbench-t22-680.html
  Iain Chief Commissioner

Location: Concord, NSW
Yes apparently when you open a tin it plays "Land of Hope and Glory".

Of course the Chinese could just be revenging themselves for the Opium Wars.

Iain

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