So after the purple cover upholstery and supposed new livery for the V Set/NSW TrainLink Livery, it got me thinking, what would the Sydney Trains livery be for the L, R, S, T, M & A Sets. would they remain the same or would they change to reflect the new organisation as such.

If not has anyone got any ideas or thoughts??

I imagine we'll have to wait and see.

If you're into "pretend liveries", join up to the SETS page on Facebook, a few creative minds there...

I was studying an OSCar earlier - The livery of them... Well I can't really imagine it any different.

The current livery probably will stay. If there is any change, it wont be immediate. Perhaps they'll replace all L7 logos on trains with "tennis transport" logos as a pr stunt, that'll only take a few days to do. They did it in about a week in Melbourne with the change from Connex to Metro. The waratahs already carry only the NSW "lotus" logo so won't need changing.

The waratahs already carry only the NSW "lotus" logo so won't need changing.

Well, that's not true. Tweets from the shadow transport minister suggest they have ditched the Waratah logo for the new ones.

Well, that's not true. Tweets from the shadow transport minister suggest they have ditched the Waratah logo for the new ones.

Yep it's already been done:

[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3790/9091926688_9c0e10afe3.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91256098@N04/9091926688/


[img]http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2889/9089706853_6e46d26767.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91256098@N04/9089706853/


[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3747/9089706691_e83983c22e.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91256098@N04/9089706691/


Credit to the uploader BeauGiles on Bus Australia forum

I've noticed today at work that quite a few of the sets from Flemo & some Oscars have had their "Cityrail" logos removed in preparation.. But in retrospect being a Hornsby Driver I haven't noticed any of our sets having had that treatment as of yet

Yep it's already been done:



Credit to the uploader BeauGiles on Bus Australia forum

Those logos have since been removed from A13, when sighted testing it was without logos, although one could see where the decals were. They will be reapplied for the first day of operation, I understand that Sydney and NSW Trains are going to have "launch ceremonies" with the Minister and Managers attending.

Those logos have since been removed from A13, when sighted testing it was without logos, although one could see where the decals were. They will be reapplied for the first day of operation, I understand that Sydney and NSW Trains are going to have "launch ceremonies" with the Minister and Managers attending.

Oh wow. Thanks Raichase didn't realise that... I should have checked that before I shared it but its still interesting. Do you know why they were removed and will then be reapplied?

Oh wow. Thanks Raichase didn't realise that... I should have checked that before I shared it but its still interesting. Do you know why they were removed and will then be reapplied?

I'd wager that none of the trains with the new logo on them will be out and about before July 1st, but given that the V Set cars are starting to look pretty finished, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to put the logos back onto a Waratah a few days before the "unveiling" is to take place. As SydTrain1988 correctly points out, a lot of trains are losing their logos - Tangaras, silver sets, OSCars, etc. It'd be a simple matter to throw the new logo onto everything over the first couple of weeks.

I'd wager that none of the trains with the new logo on them will be out and about before July 1st, but given that the V Set cars are starting to look pretty finished, I imagine it wouldn't be hard to put the logos back onto a Waratah a few days before the "unveiling" is to take place. As SydTrain1988 correctly points out, a lot of trains are losing their logos - Tangaras, silver sets, OSCars, etc. It'd be a simple matter to throw the new logo onto everything over the first couple of weeks.

The Explorer/Endeavour service centre has also started removing CountryLink/Cityrail decals from the outside of those railcars as well.

Jono.

[img]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3747/9089706691_e83983c22e.jpg[/img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/91256098@N04/9089706691/

"This service is operated by NSW Transport - Sydney Trains".... as opposed to what? Virgin Trains? Metro Trains Sydney?
Looks better than the hop logo, though...

Sydney trains, is this politics for dumb idiots? Changing logos is expensive, they have already failed politics.
The L7 is all over the state and is easily recognisable and changing it won't fix a thing.

Sydney trains, is this politics for dumb idiots? Changing logos is expensive, they have already failed politics.
The L7 is all over the state and is easily recognisable and changing it won't fix a thing.

You're a generation behind. The Waratah has been the 'in' logo since Rees decided that a lotus would be hilarious.

Yeah but they didn't rush out and scrape off all the L7s, change the uniforms put tennis balls up everywhere so that they could pretend that they were someone else and that the administration turmoil had simply vanished.

Yeah but they didn't rush out and scrape off all the L7s, change the uniforms put tennis balls up everywhere so that they could pretend that they were someone else and that the administration turmoil had simply vanished.

Mhm. Don't you see that this entire charade is an exercise in everyone collectively trying to look as though they're doing something?

Let's start from the top and move down. First off, the Minister. In NSW, Sydney public transport is a major political issue, and it's been so for a while. She's been trumpeting a platform to Fix The Trains, so now that she's no longer just a shadow, she has to produce some result. But because of the way things work in modern Australia, you can't just deliver results. Results are boring.

Can you imagine Gladys yabbering on the idiot box about how the new timetable is expected to deliver an additional 23.7% in services across the board (9.26% in peak, reflecting a new emphasis on off-peak travel, greatly benefiting so-and-so), and how phasing out the silver sets will raise the train performance bar by 2.54 points relative to the OSCar benchmark, allowing an additional five and a half seconds to be cut from minimum headway due to superior braking, and that her as-yet-unreleased fleet management plans will allow an additional 4.41% growth in capacity year-on-year on top (averaged across the five years of acquisition) of the 3.67% achieved by Labor (a cherry-picked figure to show the nadir of the Rees era), and that revenue growth is expected to outstrip cost increases leading to a 12.6 million dollar reduction in annual losses, not adjusted for projected inflation?

It'll end up being an armchair enthusiast's version of Squawk Box. 99.9999% of the NSW public would have tuned out by the time I got to the second percentage, and this is why I believe that results are boring.

Let's face it, Viewers Are Morons. The People need simple, catchy messages that are easy to digest. Fix The Trains! No Carbon Tax! Obeidism Is Taking Over! Stop The Boats! You get the idea. But to cement a message, you need something visible. Sure, 4.41% average additional growth in capacity year-on-year is great, but you can't see it. Not from the point of view of the man on the Clapham omnibus (or the Epping via Strathfield service, if you want a modern local take). You need to create an image that is exciting, that makes them go, "WOW! Things are changing! This is better!" (Not.)

This is why Gladys needs to stamp a new brand on the network. She needs to create an image of something new happening - remember, before the O'Farrell government, Labor had been in power since the nineties, so everything that is 'old' is in a way also 'Labor'. It's not just about change. It's also about looking like change.

Now, that's enough about Gladys. What about the guys in head office? Ah, yes. See, these marketing guys live and die by the marketing schemes they put out. If they can create a new marketing scheme that rolls, they can chuck it on their portfolio and thump about how they succeeded in building a campaign that reached this many people, only costed this much, and so on and so forth. It was a big campaign that succeeded, so they can get the results they need and move on. The agency looks good because it has done solid government work, and so on. If it doesn't turn out too well, you backtrack to what worked before. After doing enough studies as to why it isn't working, of course, and well after everyone else has moved on.

It happens everywhere. We all know the the newer Qantas ad, the 'Atlas' theme and the whole cringeworthy 'You're the reason we fly' shebang was vastly inferior to the magnificent 'I still call Australia home' ad. But you can't hang on to the same ad for too long - it makes you look static and unresponsive (the same applies to the railways, just less so) - but if the new one sucks, you regroup. (The new 'Curiosity' ad uses a subtle instrumental version of 'I still call Australia home'.) And before you know it, you need a new ad for a new fad.

What about the guys on the front line? Jack all is actually happening, but Gladys needs the front line to bear the appearance of change. You can't say you're introducing something new and big and let crews wear the same Hard Yakka uniform. Hell to the no. That uniform is iconic and therefore stuck in the dark ages. It must go. Funny coincidence she's rebranding everything, so why not redo the uniform too? Gotta get everyone on the change wagon - can't you see it in your guard's terminating announcement, 'All out, all change!'? The old things must go, and those that stay must change. We cannot stand still, for time is ticking and the world around us is moving. Yep, we better wear grey and orange to reflect that. But underneath that tucked-in Hop shirt and behind that now-gone stubble, it's still the same CSA with the same laugh and the same wrist-flick when printing tickets.

You need to understand the goal here. It's all in the department of looking like change, because looks matter. Does it actually change anything? Doesn't matter - not in this department anyway.

I've noticed today at work that quite a few of the sets from Flemo & some Oscars have had their "Cityrail" logos removed in preparation.. But in retrospect being a Hornsby Driver I haven't noticed any of our sets having had that treatment as of yet

Removal of the L7 and CityRail decals at HMC is progressing rapidly with the aim to have the majority done by the end of the month. No forecast as yet to when the new logo's will be applied.

So what is actually changing besides image?

Weren't there a bunch of job cuts in middle management and (apparently) redundant maintenance staff?. Plus they're building stuff I guess, but thats mostly leftover projects that the previous government failed at producing.

"This service is operated by NSW Transport - Sydney Trains".... as opposed to what? Virgin Trains? Metro Trains Sydney?
Looks better than the hop logo, though...

As opposed to "NSW Transport - NSW Trains"

Weren't there a bunch of job cuts in middle management and (apparently) redundant maintenance staff?. Plus they're building stuff I guess, but thats mostly leftover projects that the previous government failed at producing.

I heard the minister made some management reapply for their jobs creating a massive paper trail.
Here is some of the twenty year master plan propaganda.

The Master Plan was developed as a result of detailed technical analysis, research and extensive consultation with the people of NSW, our key stakeholders, experts and our customers. It contains a number of major projects which have both funding and delivery timeframes and will bring real improvements to roads and public transport.
The Master Plan includes 220 short, medium and long term actions underpinned by a four year investment of over $53 billion in initial funding to improve transport in NSW.

"This service is operated by NSW Transport - Sydney Trains".... as opposed to what? Virgin Trains? Metro Trains Sydney?
Looks better than the hop logo, though...

This logo is being applied to all private and public buses, so I'd imagine they're going onto the trains for uniformity. If you see a new bus, they're all in the PTC (sorry, NSW Transport) livery of blue and white, with the logo towards the front indicating who is operating the service (Sydney Buses, Forest Coach Lines, Punchbowl Bus Company, Busways, etc). That being said, the cynics can look at the logo being placed on trains (especially with the giant "Sydney Trains" logo on the side already) and have cause to question if one day it will read "Sydney Trains", "This service operated by... Connex" (or whomever).

That being said, the cynics can look at the logo being placed on trains (especially with the giant "Sydney Trains" logo on the side already) and have cause to question if one day it will read "Sydney Trains", "This service operated by... Connex" (or whomever).

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Veolia Transdev has already signed on to take over Sydney Trains

You can bet the Government is just biding it's time before Sydney Trains get franchised to one or more 'private' operators.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Veolia Transdev has already signed on to take over Sydney Trains

You can bet the Government is just biding it's time before Sydney Trains get franchised to one or more 'private' operators.

I don't want to enter into discussion one way or the other about private operators, but one could certainly argue that this sets it up nicely for it. The actual merits of it, along with how much of a political football it would be is a topic for another discussion, perhaps?

Mhm. Don't you see that this entire charade is an exercise in everyone collectively trying to look as though they're doing something?

Let's start from the top and move down. First off, the Minister. In NSW, Sydney public transport is a major political issue, and it's been so for a while. She's been trumpeting a platform to Fix The Trains, so now that she's no longer just a shadow, she has to produce some result. But because of the way things work in modern Australia, you can't just deliver results. Results are boring.

Can you imagine Gladys yabbering on the idiot box about how the new timetable is expected to deliver an additional 23.7% in services across the board (9.26% in peak, reflecting a new emphasis on off-peak travel, greatly benefiting so-and-so), and how phasing out the silver sets will raise the train performance bar by 2.54 points relative to the OSCar benchmark, allowing an additional five and a half seconds to be cut from minimum headway due to superior braking, and that her as-yet-unreleased fleet management plans will allow an additional 4.41% growth in capacity year-on-year on top (averaged across the five years of acquisition) of the 3.67% achieved by Labor (a cherry-picked figure to show the nadir of the Rees era), and that revenue growth is expected to outstrip cost increases leading to a 12.6 million dollar reduction in annual losses, not adjusted for projected inflation?

It'll end up being an armchair enthusiast's version of Squawk Box. 99.9999% of the NSW public would have tuned out by the time I got to the second percentage, and this is why I believe that results are boring.

Let's face it, Viewers Are Morons. The People need simple, catchy messages that are easy to digest. Fix The Trains! No Carbon Tax! Obeidism Is Taking Over! Stop The Boats! You get the idea. But to cement a message, you need something visible. Sure, 4.41% average additional growth in capacity year-on-year is great, but you can't see it. Not from the point of view of the man on the Clapham omnibus (or the Epping via Strathfield service, if you want a modern local take). You need to create an image that is exciting, that makes them go, "WOW! Things are changing! This is better!" (Not.)

This is why Gladys needs to stamp a new brand on the network. She needs to create an image of something new happening - remember, before the O'Farrell government, Labor had been in power since the nineties, so everything that is 'old' is in a way also 'Labor'. It's not just about change. It's also about looking like change.

Now, that's enough about Gladys. What about the guys in head office? Ah, yes. See, these marketing guys live and die by the marketing schemes they put out. If they can create a new marketing scheme that rolls, they can chuck it on their portfolio and thump about how they succeeded in building a campaign that reached this many people, only costed this much, and so on and so forth. It was a big campaign that succeeded, so they can get the results they need and move on. The agency looks good because it has done solid government work, and so on. If it doesn't turn out too well, you backtrack to what worked before. After doing enough studies as to why it isn't working, of course, and well after everyone else has moved on.

It happens everywhere. We all know the the newer Qantas ad, the 'Atlas' theme and the whole cringeworthy 'You're the reason we fly' shebang was vastly inferior to the magnificent 'I still call Australia home' ad. But you can't hang on to the same ad for too long - it makes you look static and unresponsive (the same applies to the railways, just less so) - but if the new one sucks, you regroup. (The new 'Curiosity' ad uses a subtle instrumental version of 'I still call Australia home'.) And before you know it, you need a new ad for a new fad.

What about the guys on the front line? Jack all is actually happening, but Gladys needs the front line to bear the appearance of change. You can't say you're introducing something new and big and let crews wear the same Hard Yakka uniform. Hell to the no. That uniform is iconic and therefore stuck in the dark ages. It must go. Funny coincidence she's rebranding everything, so why not redo the uniform too? Gotta get everyone on the change wagon - can't you see it in your guard's terminating announcement, 'All out, all change!'? The old things must go, and those that stay must change. We cannot stand still, for time is ticking and the world around us is moving. Yep, we better wear grey and orange to reflect that. But underneath that tucked-in Hop shirt and behind that now-gone stubble, it's still the same CSA with the same laugh and the same wrist-flick when printing tickets.

You need to understand the goal here. It's all in the department of looking like change, because looks matter. Does it actually change anything? Doesn't matter - not in this department anyway.

Beautifully and thoroughly explained Watson

It's also pure politics at work: not what is/has been done, but what is/has been seen to be done. Perception always seems to trump reality in these instances.