Paint booth

 
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
The weather hasn't been real good for air brushing here for a while now and I have a UP 5000 class brass 4-10-2 (my brother's) that has had one coat only....needs another 6 or so coats.

So, I decided to build another paint booth; the one I used back in the 90's was broken up and the fan chucked out.

Looking around my shed, I found a 12" Davies Craig fan (automotive engine cooling fan) as well as a rectangular flood light (the type that has a globe about 4" long).

So, I grabbed some spare MDF from the back of the shed and knocked-up a 4-sided box, added a couple of timber battens and mounted the fan on the back. Cut a rectangular hole in the "roof" for the floodlight (which will act as the source of both light and heat).

I've used small Anderson plugs (known as "power poles") to connect the fan to a pair of N70ZZ batteries (these are the same batteries I use to power several of my Peco point motors). I used a turn-key switch for the fan motor. It works well..... TOO well in fact! The fan has so much suction that the first test I did was by putting a 40' plastic container on the turntable, on top of a plastic lid off a paint spray can. The fan almost sucked the container into it's path.

Hmm, time to re-think. I tried to use a domestic dimmer switch I had lying around, to control the speed. Part of me knew that wouldn't work....only designed for AC power. A quick check on google and ebay and I've come up with a $20 solution which I hope will work: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/170916129430?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Anyway, we'll see what happens and I'll post some pics if anybody's interested.

Roachie

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  a6et Minister for Railways

Bill

I have seen some home made spray booths made with a small ceiling extraction fan at the back, same type as used in shower/bathroom areas.  Can pick them up cheap at Bunnings & other places, only thing is they are run direct from the mains.

The other types I have seen & they work quite well are computer fans, & you can pick them up for different prices at computer markets, depending on the size of the booth an 80mm fan would do the job & you can get them with variable speeds as well.  While they come with Computer connections its a simple matter to cut the female connector off & clip into a 12volt Power supply.

I am also looking at making a booth myself & the computer case fan is the way I will go.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Bill

I have seen some home made spray booths made with a small ceiling extraction fan at the back, same type as used in shower/bathroom areas.  Can pick them up cheap at Bunnings & other places, only thing is they are run direct from the mains.

The other types I have seen & they work quite well are computer fans, & you can pick them up for different prices at computer markets, depending on the size of the booth an 80mm fan would do the job & you can get them with variable speeds as well.  While they come with Computer connections its a simple matter to cut the female connector off & clip into a 12volt Power supply.

I am also looking at making a booth myself & the computer case fan is the way I will go.
a6et
G'day Colin,

Yes, my previous booth was made of particle board and had a 6" computer extraction fan which ran off 240v. It did a great job for over 300 locos plus several hundred items of rolling stock. By the end of its life, the fan blades were caked in crud, but it still worked.

When I moved here to SA in 2002 I didn't envisage getting back into the hobby again....or at least never needing to spray any more models anyway. So, I dismantled the booth and chucked everything away except for the light fittings ( I had 4x 100w light globes in there).

The only reason I decided to use this large automotive fan is that it was handy on a sunday arvo.

I'm hoping this speed controller will do a reasonable job of slowing the fan down a bit less than the force 10 gale it currently creates!

Roachie
  hosk1956 Deputy Commissioner

Location: no where near gunzels
I know what you mean about the weather Roachie, I'm in Adelaide which might put me 1 degree above you but it has been cold of late, I have a bit of painting to do and will have to go the same path so will be interested to see your results, but I keep thinking that the amount of lighting you use is an overkill, question:- don't you find it would get too hot to work under? I can see it would be great from the heat aspect but just wondering about the working conditions, and sunburn LOL.  Embarassed
I wonder if that speed controller would work as a throttle with the inclusion of a reversing switch?, you know for those of us that still use DC (Dinosaur Controller?). You do remember what DC is?  Laughing

Wayne
  a6et Minister for Railways

G'day Colin,

Yes, my previous booth was made of particle board and had a 6" computer extraction fan which ran off 240v. It did a great job for over 300 locos plus several hundred items of rolling stock. By the end of its life, the fan blades were caked in crud, but it still worked.

When I moved here to SA in 2002 I didn't envisage getting back into the hobby again....or at least never needing to spray any more models anyway. So, I dismantled the booth and chucked everything away except for the light fittings ( I had 4x 100w light globes in there).

The only reason I decided to use this large automotive fan is that it was handy on a sunday arvo.

I'm hoping this speed controller will do a reasonable job of slowing the fan down a bit less than the force 10 gale it currently creates!

Roachie
Roachie
Hi Bill

I guess I am looking at the overall power usage of these things, as well as to try with functionality, & would like one that is of reasonable size but not oversized as I have seen some.

One fellow who uses a kitchen type exhaust fan has his paint booth set up on the outside wall, with the booth built around it, advantage with the kitchen type is that it has a set of louvres that close when off & open when on, have not seen the type in stores for a while now though.  Rather than used high wattage bulbs I have around 2 metres of 3528 bright white LED strip lights left over from a section of the layout that needs illumination, so will use those as which means I can connect to the same 12v Power supply.  I also have some clear flex poly sheeting left over that I will use as a light cover to protect from paint crude.

As I primarily use pastels for weathering of R/S I am not a huge user of spray equipment so may not need as big a setup as others who use paint only.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
I know what you mean about the weather Roachie, I'm in Adelaide which might put me 1 degree above you but it has been cold of late, I have a bit of painting to do and will have to go the same path so will be interested to see your results, but I keep thinking that the amount of lighting you use is an overkill, question:- don't you find it would get too hot to work under? I can see it would be great from the heat aspect but just wondering about the working conditions, and sunburn LOL.  Embarassed
I wonder if that speed controller would work as a throttle with the inclusion of a reversing switch?, you know for those of us that still use DC (Dinosaur Controller?). You do remember what DC is?  Laughing

Wayne
hosk1956
G'day Wayne,

Back in the late 1980s, I spent a couple of years posted to the PNG Highlands town of Kundiawa. It was about the same as being in Oodnadatta as far as being able to easily acquire stuff needed for spurious things like model railroading.

It was around this time that I became involved with Lloyd Sawyer (Footplate Models/DJH kits) and started building some kits of 32 class locos. I hadn't taken any power supply/transformer with me, but I desperately needed some means of testing the mechs once they were built.

A local mechanical retailer had a 6v/12v Arlec battery charger for sale, which I bought. But I still needed a method of controlling my new 12v supply. Not being smart enough to work out how to control the 12v side, I grabbed a wooden coin tray from work (I used to be a bankie) and proceeded to cobble together a power board with a double GPO plus a single GPO. The latter was hooked up via a dimmer switch and voila!!! I was now able to control my loco mechs down to crawling speed by manipulating the 240v input to the battery charger. You can't begin to imagine how smart I felt about myself!!! hahaha

Roachie
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
The weather hasn't been real good for air brushing here for a while now and I have a UP 5000 class brass 4-10-2 (my brother's) that has had one coat only....needs another 6 or so coats.

So, I decided to build another paint booth; the one I used back in the 90's was broken up and the fan chucked out.

Looking around my shed, I found a 12" Davies Craig fan (automotive engine cooling fan) as well as a rectangular flood light (the type that has a globe about 4" long).

So, I grabbed some spare MDF from the back of the shed and knocked-up a 4-sided box, added a couple of timber battens and mounted the fan on the back. Cut a rectangular hole in the "roof" for the floodlight (which will act as the source of both light and heat).

I've used small Anderson plugs (known as "power poles") to connect the fan to a pair of N70ZZ batteries (these are the same batteries I use to power several of my Peco point motors). I used a turn-key switch for the fan motor. It works well..... TOO well in fact! The fan has so much suction that the first test I did was by putting a 40' plastic container on the turntable, on top of a plastic lid off a paint spray can. The fan almost sucked the container into it's path.

Hmm, time to re-think. I tried to use a domestic dimmer switch I had lying around, to control the speed. Part of me knew that wouldn't work....only designed for AC power. A quick check on google and ebay and I've come up with a $20 solution which I hope will work: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/170916129430?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Anyway, we'll see what happens and I'll post some pics if anybody's interested.

Roachie
"Roachie"

Looks like it might do the trick, anything with five big (presumably) FETs each requiring heatsinking cannot be bad!
  barkfast Station Master

Are there any fire dangers with having an unsealed motor (like a computer fan) in the path of paint / thinner fumes? I would hate to think of the consequence of an inadvertent spark....

also does the air captured in the booth get filtered (like aquarium filter wool) as part of the exhaust process?
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Are there any fire dangers with having an unsealed motor (like a computer fan) in the path of paint / thinner fumes? I would hate to think of the consequence of an inadvertent spark....

also does the air captured in the booth get filtered (like aquarium filter wool) as part of the exhaust process?
barkfast
My previous spray booth, which I built myself in about 1990, used a computer fan and I painted several hundred models during the 10 year period when I was building DJH locos as a side-line to my bank manager "day job". I used self-etch automotive paints/thinners exclusively (I bought 4 litres each of "Mirotone" grey and black self etch + 8 litres of the appropriate thinners, to make my own various shades of "grimy black").

I never had ANY issues with fire. Not one. In my opinion, the action of the fan to draw the dirty air towards the fan blades (and hence, away from the motor at the hub) is the main reason why I never experienced any issues.

I have never used any form of filtration either (as far as the booth is concerned), but I spray models in a large (12m x 7.5m) shed with 4m high roof; so I wouldn't expect to have any of the fumes come back to haunt me. I don't use any breathing apparatus either, although I did experiment with a filter mask at one stage.

Roachie
  a6et Minister for Railways

My previous spray booth, which I built myself in about 1990, used a computer fan and I painted several hundred models during the 10 year period when I was building DJH locos as a side-line to my bank manager "day job". I used self-etch automotive paints/thinners exclusively (I bought 4 litres each of "Mirotone" grey and black self etch + 8 litres of the appropriate thinners, to make my own various shades of "grimy black").

I never had ANY issues with fire. Not one. In my opinion, the action of the fan to draw the dirty air towards the fan blades (and hence, away from the motor at the hub) is the main reason why I never experienced any issues.

I have never used any form of filtration either (as far as the booth is concerned), but I spray models in a large (12m x 7.5m) shed with 4m high roof; so I wouldn't expect to have any of the fumes come back to haunt me. I don't use any breathing apparatus either, although I did experiment with a filter mask at one stage.

Roachie
Roachie
The other aspect with computer case fans is that you are operating on quite low voltage 12volt DC as against 240 in many other types.  The motors in fans are quite small as well, & sit in the centre of the fan which are pretty well sealed.

Given the amount of dust that they accumulate when used in both air extraction & intake that cause problems as well with motors clogging up, & yet to hear of fires started from that or any other source that's not saying it cannot & has not happened, but no more of a danger than any type of motor even in the expensive model paint booths that are sold.

Like anything buying brand name fans, such as Antec, Cooler Master, Thermaltake & the like which are only a couple of $$$'s dearer than the no names will provide more comfort as to quality.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Not too sure if this enquiry should be here or in the Weathering Thread.  I'm wanting to purchase an aircompressor and spray gun for weathering and also overall paint jobs for NSW HO.  - what do you recommend?  I've checked out 'Runway 13' s stock at Liverpool in October 2012 but now see others alot cheaper on ebay?
/http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Professional-1-6HP-Air-Brush-Compressor-For-Spray-Gun-With-Tank/130934361920?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D8603110524198029140%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D190858414010%26

Is there a difference? - or just stick with what Paasche recommends?
NSWGRules

The link did not work.  The air compressor I have is from Ebay similar to ones other modellers I know use http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-6HP-Air-Compressor-Spray-Gun-Air-Brush-AS-186-/260985916715?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Model_Kits&hash=item3cc3f90d2b  

Hope the link works, had no issues with the dealer & compressor works fine, look for one that has at least a stated 12 month warranty, & one with a tank.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
The other aspect with computer case fans is that you are operating on quite low voltage 12volt DC as against 240 in many other types.  The motors in fans are quite small as well, & sit in the centre of the fan which are pretty well sealed.

Given the amount of dust that they accumulate when used in both air extraction & intake that cause problems as well with motors clogging up, & yet to hear of fires started from that or any other source that's not saying it cannot & has not happened, but no more of a danger than any type of motor even in the expensive model paint booths that are sold.

Like anything buying brand name fans, such as Antec, Cooler Master, Thermaltake & the like which are only a couple of $$$'s dearer than the no names will provide more comfort as to quality.
a6et
Nah....the computer fan I used in my old booth was from a main frame  or something (one of my brothers was a 'puter dude in NAB Melbourne and gave me a cast-off fan. This fan was a straight 240v jobbie.
  a6et Minister for Railways

Nah....the computer fan I used in my old booth was from a main frame  or something (one of my brothers was a 'puter dude in NAB Melbourne and gave me a cast-off fan. This fan was a straight 240v jobbie.
Roachie

Different kettle, Nah! jug!...  The ones I have seen & will be using are the types used in standard everyday computers, can get them up to 120mm in size & run of 12 volts, best way to go.
  Thumpa Chief Train Controller

Location: That's on a need to know basis.
Here is something I put together a couple of years ago.

Made out of 16mm MDF board, I had Bunnings cut it to the sizes I needed. Fiited 12V puck lights to the sides and top.
The extraction unit on top is a Rangehood from Bunnings also, this was a discontinued line and got it brand new for less than half price.
The hood also has a built in light which helps with back light.

Even on the low setting the fan extraction works extremely well, pulling the paint and solvent fumes away through the mesh filter and via flex ducting through a louvre flap vent to the outside.





I see from time to time on eBay Rangehoods for sale second hand if one was keen to do something similar.

Thumpa
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Very snazzy Thumpa!! Mine is much more agricultural than that!

Roachie
  mitch01 Train Controller

Location: Sebastopol, Vic
Been following this from the start.
I made one from a busted front loader washing machine.
Added a door, several computer fans, castors  and works well.
Takes a while for the paint to dry and can be a bit dark.

So with the lights and heat does this not cause a problem with the fumes?
Was always concerned i was going to be the first model railroader on the moon if i fitted a heat source.

Lindsay
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Been following this from the start.
I made one from a busted front loader washing machine.
Added a door, several computer fans, castors  and works well.
Takes a while for the paint to dry and can be a bit dark.

So with the lights and heat does this not cause a problem with the fumes?
Was always concerned i was going to be the first model railroader on the moon if i fitted a heat source.

Lindsay
mitch01
No problem with adding a heat source in the form of a light/s. It helps keep the temp of the model's surface warm, which aids with condensation and drying time.
  Thumpa Chief Train Controller

Location: That's on a need to know basis.
Hi Lindsay,

You'll find most solvents related with painting have a fairly high autoignition point for the gas or vapour given off. Acetone for example, has a AP of 465c, Benzene 560c, Isopropanol 399c, so the temperature for the fumes to ignite are quite high. If you are not sure of a chemical you may be using, consult the MSDS.

The puck lights in the booth I built are only 12V and don't give off a lot of heat. The light in the hood is 25Watt and it too doesn't give off all that much heat. I don't want a lot of heat when spraying, reason being I don't want the paint drying while airborne as a droplet and landing on a surface as a dry powder. If anything I'll be possibly look at fitting LED lighting and reduce the temp even more sometime in the future.

Thumpa
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Hi Lindsay,

You'll find most solvents related with painting have a fairly high autoignition point for the gas or vapour given off. Acetone for example, has a AP of 465c, Benzene 560c, Isopropanol 399c, so the temperature for the fumes to ignite are quite high. If you are not sure of a chemical you may be using, consult the MSDS.

The puck lights in the booth I built are only 12V and don't give off a lot of heat. The light in the hood is 25Watt and it too doesn't give off all that much heat. I don't want a lot of heat when spraying, reason being I don't want the paint drying while airborne as a droplet and landing on a surface as a dry powder. If anything I'll be possibly look at fitting LED lighting and reduce the temp even more sometime in the future.

Thumpa
"Thumpa"

To ignite the fumes from your spray booth we're really talking about more than heat or a spark, you'd basically need a naked flame.
  mitch01 Train Controller

Location: Sebastopol, Vic
Thanks guys appreciate the info.
One thing that has been missing since i built the thing was lighting and or heat to help dry the models.

So guessing if i wanted to add some heat i could add a couple of 240 volt globes of about 40 watt to the roof and a couple of the 12v lights to the sides if i wanted extra lighting .
Sounds like an expedition to the local hardware store is in order.

Lindsay
  mitch01 Train Controller

Location: Sebastopol, Vic
Just to clear something up, and it may not matter. But i am using GP thinners to thin my paint before spraying.
And i am generally spraying more than 1 or 2 models, more like 5 or 6 at any one time.
At the moment i have computer fans extracting the fumes and over spray outwards on 3 sides through some filter type fabric, or wadding. Once this gets too clogged i replace it with a fresh bit to help lessen the clogging of the fan blades. And to also aid in keeping the shed from becoming a paint dusted mess.

I normally spray what i need and then shut the door with the fans running to help keep the dust off while they are still wet.
Then simply turn the fans off, which are operated by an old train controller, when i go inside for the night.

Lindsay
  Thumpa Chief Train Controller

Location: That's on a need to know basis.
For anyone interested, I have one new Rangehood for sale as what was used for the spray booth I built as pictured above in the thread. PM me if you are interested ,FIFS! I can guide you how to build the booth if required. I'm located near Hornsby, Sydney for pick up.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Update.....

The electronic box arrived today and was duly installed. It works really well and because it has an "OFF" click position, I have been able to do away with a separate switch.

I am now able to control the large automotive cooling fan right down to a few RPM. I will experiment with the best speed over the coming days.

I've also added a pair of feed cables from the layout buss (DCC), so that I can operate steam loco mechanisms as I spray the wheels/spokes/rods etc. These cables are soldered to a short (about 100mm) long section of code 100 track, which is nailed to the roof. I can then attach a pair of short aligator leads to the track and then to the mech's pick-up. This will only work on those locos that have the decoder on the loco proper. For locos that have the decoder in the tender, I will have to go back to using a DC feed directly to the 2 leads that "jump" from the tender to the motor in the loco.

I have a home-made lazy-susan made from a round piece of 12mm plywood, attached to a triangle of 3x 5/16" bolts, welded together at their heads, around another short section of bolt that acts as the pivot and sits in a hole in the floor of the booth. At the outer end of each of the 3 bolts, I have used plain alternator bearings, about 19mm outer diamter, with an approximate inner hole of 5/16"; one nut either side of each bearing. This revolves very freely.

Roachie

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