ab123 Chief Train Controller

As far as I am aware the conductor manually sets the "location" on the hand held device. So it would have been set to Seymour for Seymour passengers and so on

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  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
Decided to try regional myki today.
I have a seniors myki and I first used it to travel from Pakenham to Southern Cross. Touched off at Southern Cross and a short time later touched on again and boarded the 10.32 am V'locity to Seymour. Touched off at Seymour and the validator showed that $2.04 had been deducted. What tha?? Just over 2 bucks for Melbourne to Seymour? BARGAIN! Touched on again at Seymour, joined the same V'lo at 12.14pm and rode back to Southern Cross, touching off to a fare of around $5.20. So why the difference? The only thing I can think of goes something like this- The Metro fare when I first touched off at Southern Cross was around $2.60 which, I'm guessing is the two hourly cap for zone 2 & 1 travel, on the Seniors myki. Since I must have still been in that two hour window when I touched on for the run to Seymour, it gave me the Southern Cross to Craigieburn section for free and only charged an off-peak concession for Craigieburn to Seymour. Is that a likely reason?Very Happy
  Lance-Fieldline Train Controller

Location: Stalybridge Station Buffet
Decided to try regional myki today.
I have a seniors myki and I first used it to travel from Pakenham to Southern Cross. Touched off at Southern Cross and a short time later touched on again and boarded the 10.32 am V'locity to Seymour. Touched off at Seymour and the validator showed that $2.04 had been deducted. What tha?? Just over 2 bucks for Melbourne to Seymour? BARGAIN! Touched on again at Seymour, joined the same V'lo at 12.14pm and rode back to Southern Cross, touching off to a fare of around $5.20. So why the difference? The only thing I can think of goes something like this- The Metro fare when I first touched off at Southern Cross was around $2.60 which, I'm guessing is the two hourly cap for zone 2 & 1 travel, on the Seniors myki. Since I must have still been in that two hour window when I touched on for the run to Seymour, it gave me the Southern Cross to Craigieburn section for free and only charged an off-peak concession for Craigieburn to Seymour. Is that a likely reason?Very Happy
L1150

Hi there

2 hr off peak conc Craigieburn-Seymour is $2.17.

Why can't I buy myki passes for zones above zone 2 from Roxburgh Park (ie Zone 2-5 7 day pass)?

Cheers Lance
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Hi there

2 hr off peak conc Craigieburn-Seymour is $2.17.

Why can't I buy myki passes for zones above zone 2 from Roxburgh Park (ie Zone 2-5 7 day pass)?

Cheers Lance
Lance-Fieldline
What makes you say you can't? Just curious.
  liron Junior Train Controller

Decided to try regional myki today.
I have a seniors myki and I first used it to travel from Pakenham to Southern Cross. Touched off at Southern Cross and a short time later touched on again and boarded the 10.32 am V'locity to Seymour. Touched off at Seymour and the validator showed that $2.04 had been deducted. What tha?? Just over 2 bucks for Melbourne to Seymour? BARGAIN! Touched on again at Seymour, joined the same V'lo at 12.14pm and rode back to Southern Cross, touching off to a fare of around $5.20. So why the difference? The only thing I can think of goes something like this- The Metro fare when I first touched off at Southern Cross was around $2.60 which, I'm guessing is the two hourly cap for zone 2 & 1 travel, on the Seniors myki. Since I must have still been in that two hour window when I touched on for the run to Seymour, it gave me the Southern Cross to Craigieburn section for free and only charged an off-peak concession for Craigieburn to Seymour. Is that a likely reason?Very Happy
L1150
When you touched off at Southern Cross you would have bee charged $2.96 for a zone 1-2 fare.  The Seymour fare (zone 1-6) for a concession off peak is $5.04, but since you had a valid zone 1-2 fare already ($2.96) you should only have to pay $2.08 when you touch off at Seymour.

The zone 1-6 fare would be a three hour ticket rather than a two hour ticket since you travelled through at least 6 zones.  If you touched on at Seymour after the three hour window expired you should be charged another $5.04, but now you would have a zone 1-6 daily ticket that you could use for the rest of the day.
  Lance-Fieldline Train Controller

Location: Stalybridge Station Buffet
What makes you say you can't? Just curious.
railblogger

Only Zone 1 & 2 passes available from the machine
  L1150 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Pakenham Vic.
When you touched off at Southern Cross you would have bee charged $2.96 for a zone 1-2 fare.  The Seymour fare (zone 1-6) for a concession off peak is $5.04, but since you had a valid zone 1-2 fare already ($2.96) you should only have to pay $2.08 when you touch off at Seymour.

The zone 1-6 fare would be a three hour ticket rather than a two hour ticket since you travelled through at least 6 zones.  If you touched on at Seymour after the three hour window expired you should be charged another $5.04, but now you would have a zone 1-6 daily ticket that you could use for the rest of the day.
liron
Thanks liron for your explanation. Looks like when all the regional rail goes miki, I'm going to get some cheap gunzelling!Very Happy
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Only Zone 1 & 2 passes available from the machine
Lance-Fieldline
Maybe they need to do a software upgrade?
  NR1 Locomotive Fireman

Location: Warrnambool
Just wandering, will the v/line stations get the barriers like what the stations in Melbourne have???
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Just wandering, will the v/line stations get the barriers like what the stations in Melbourne have???
"NR1"


It is certainly being considered in the future for major stations with high patronage.  No gates have been ordered for V/Line stations at this time.  As V/Line patronage increases, and as the number of 'local' trips on V/Line increases, then obviously the business case for gates improves. As frequencies increase, then you can expect to see a lot more people travelling around Ballarat, Bendigo, Geelong and LaTrobe Valley by train (eg. customers who aren't going in and out of the gates at Southern Cross).  So a whole series of factors to consider.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Revenue, just wondering, is posting on this board considered attributable work time for you?
  Mitty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Hawthorn
Only Zone 1 & 2 passes available from the machine
Lance-Fieldline
When you buy a pass there's a "More zones" button underneath the buttons for zone 1 + 2.  You can buy a pass that covers any of the zones myki is valid in (eg, 1-6 for Seymour, 1-12 for Traralgon, 1-13 for Bendigo, 1-8 for Ballarat, 1-4 for Geelong).

Got to this page on the PTV website to find out the pass rates for vline travel.

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/regional-fares/#
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Revenue, just wondering, is posting on this board considered attributable work time for you?
"don_dunstan"


Nope. I work way more hours than I'm paid for - so there isn't an issues with me posting occasionally. Normally, while I'm on the phone to someone.  Smile
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Does anyone know if there are going to be more regional retail outlets selling myki cards when/after the V/Line rollout is complete?
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
I just wish I had a job marketing Myki on chat boards - if I was being paid I'm sure I'd find no end of wonderful things to say.  There would have been a substantial PR budget for the marketing of a compulsory ticketing system to Victorians - probably in the high tens of millions.  Remember they made up a whole semi-trailer designed to go to fairs/shows and tell us all about Myki but it never actually got used?  $721,000 down the drain.  Still, that's a drop in the ocean compared to the $1.5 billion plus spent on the whole project.

Government is doing a lot of work around shaping public opinions through message boards, Facebook, Twitter, etc etc.  They employ consultants on big $$$ to advise them on an approach and a media strategy from media packs right through to show-bags and promotional events.  Kevin Rudd's presence on Instagram is already getting nauseating... I forgot why I stopped liking him the first time.  Still, it's how the kids jive now days so everyone from the Police through to your local council is trying to get you to like them on the interwebs.  Somebody at TTA would be paid to trawl these kind of pages and spread the word about how wonderful Myki is, even if it's not Revenue himself.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Does anyone know if there are going to be more regional retail outlets selling myki cards when/after the V/Line rollout is complete?
railblogger

I hope so. At the moment, the Bellarine Peninsula has not 1 outlet anywhere (I stand to be corrected if there is one somewhere).
Great for people living in places like Queenscliff/Point Lonsdale, and Barwon Heads, who want to buy a Myki, or top up, and who do not want to necessarily bail up a bus (if they can find one with the poor timetables the peninsula has) just to buy a card, or top up Rolling Eyes
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

I hope so. At the moment, the Bellarine Peninsula has not 1 outlet anywhere (I stand to be corrected if there is one somewhere).
Great for people living in places like Queenscliff/Point Lonsdale, and Barwon Heads, who want to buy a Myki, or top up, and who do not want to necessarily bail up a bus (if they can find one with the poor timetables the peninsula has) just to buy a card, or top up Rolling Eyes
"xxxxlbear"


I'd like to dig a bit deeper on this issue and ask why. Customers can purchase a myki on board the bus and top it up on the bus as well. So what is the problem that would be solved by adding more retail agents? Certainly it would allow customers to reload with EFTPOS or credit card, but of course that's balanced by the fact that you can reload online now.  Is it for customers who might want to drive to Geelong and catch the train there? If so, then customers can purchase and top up at the stations.

So is the problem that is being solved around first time users? Or ongoing users who already have a card? Is the desire to reduce the number of transactions on board buses? If so, does the patroange on these buses actually require that?

In other words, what is the problem that would be solved by more retail agents? And is it worth the cost associated with installing equipment at these locations? The costs aren't insignificant.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Remember they made up a whole semi-trailer designed to go to fairs/shows and tell us all about Myki but it never actually got used?  $721,000 down the drain.  Still, that's a drop in the ocean compared to the $1.5 billion plus spent on the whole project.
"don_dunstan"


It's not like the semi-trailler was just thrown out!  Razz  It was sold when it was no longer needed - which was always the plan.  Cheaper to buy it and sell it rather than rent one.  And it did go to the Royal Melbourne Show and a number of other locations.

And as we've talked about before, you're including an awful lot of maintenance when you talk about $1.5B - which would have had to occur with Metcard if the decision had been made to keep the system and replace bits and pieces of the system as they became life expired. It is worth mentioning that Metcard could never have coped with the patronage increases that have occured.  For example, all the new barriers at Flinders Street would have had to go in regardless of whether it was Metcard or myki. Same with the additional barriers at a lot of other stations.
  XAM2175 Assistant Commissioner

Location: Glasgow
For example, all the new barriers at Flinders Street would have had to go in regardless of whether it was Metcard or myki. Same with the additional barriers at a lot of other stations.
Revenue
Except that, because they were custom jobs by AES / ERG, there were no more gates to be had. Just as there were no more MVMs, no more validators, and no more driver's consoles (except for the hardware bought from Brisbane Transport when they moved over to go card).

I'm not the biggest fan of the current Gunnebo gates, but at least we can get more of them if and when required.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
I'd like to dig a bit deeper on this issue and ask why. Customers can purchase a myki on board the bus and top it up on the bus as well. So what is the problem that would be solved by adding more retail agents? Certainly it would allow customers to reload with EFTPOS or credit card, but of course that's balanced by the fact that you can reload online now.  Is it for customers who might want to drive to Geelong and catch the train there? If so, then customers can purchase and top up at the stations.

So is the problem that is being solved around first time users? Or ongoing users who already have a card? Is the desire to reduce the number of transactions on board buses? If so, does the patroange on these buses actually require that?

In other words, what is the problem that would be solved by more retail agents? And is it worth the cost associated with installing equipment at these locations? The costs aren't insignificant.
Revenue
What you do if your local station is closed and you want to purchase a child myki? What do you do if you don't want to register your myki?
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I'd like to dig a bit deeper on this issue and ask why. Customers can purchase a myki on board the bus and top it up on the bus as well. So what is the problem that would be solved by adding more retail agents? Certainly it would allow customers to reload with EFTPOS or credit card, but of course that's balanced by the fact that you can reload online now.  Is it for customers who might want to drive to Geelong and catch the train there? If so, then customers can purchase and top up at the stations.

So is the problem that is being solved around first time users? Or ongoing users who already have a card? Is the desire to reduce the number of transactions on board buses? If so, does the patroange on these buses actually require that?

In other words, what is the problem that would be solved by more retail agents? And is it worth the cost associated with installing equipment at these locations? The costs aren't insignificant.
Revenue

Most Myki users have the ability to buy and top up their cards at retail outlets WITHOUT having to bail up a bus.
At the present moment, Bellarine residents who wish to buy and/or top up a Myki card without wanting to travel (for example, wanting to do it on payday) do not have an option to buy ot top up without having to bail up a bus (when they can find one).

Your reaction, Revenue, suprises me, as you are the one who actively promotes the ability to buy and top up Mykis at retail outlets as an exciting new feature of Myki. Now you are hinting that it is quite okay for Bellarine residents and tourists to bail up buses merely for the purpose of buying and topping up Myki cards.
Remember that not everyone has access to the internet to be able to buy or top up Myki cards. The average age of the permanent population of towns like Queenscliff is bordering on elderly. I wouldn't expect my grandmother (if she was alive today) to be internet savy enough to be topping up Myki cards (though sone can and do), or be able to own and use a mobile capable of doing the same.
And not everyone who travels on Bellarine buses travels to/from Geelong, and who, as a consequence, will not have access to the Myki machine at the front entrance to Geelong station.

You promote Myki retail outlets, well, where are they in places like Queenscliff, or Point Lonsdale, or even Leopold? Confused
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Except that, because they were custom jobs by AES / ERG, there were no more gates to be had. Just as there were no more MVMs, no more validators, and no more driver's consoles (except for the hardware bought from Brisbane Transport when they moved over to go card).

I'm not the biggest fan of the current Gunnebo gates, but at least we can get more of them if and when required.
"jb17kx"


True - so that was the decision. Do you go and buy new equipment that is mag stripe - or do you go and buy new equipment that is smartcard.  The point I'm making (badly) is that if you elected to stay with mag stripe, then you'd have to replace a great deal of the equipment with new machine types anyway.  The other factor is that you need less equipment with smartcards - because people can reload with a variety of channels, the number of transactions is expected to fall - which means you need one or two CVMs, rather than a lot more.  Queues in smartcard systems are largely self regulating the long term - if there is consistently a queue at a station then people shift to other channels (eg. I'm not going to top up at the station - there will be a queue - I'll do it at the 7-Eleven on the way).  So that's another benefit of smartcard - a lot less equipment to cope with growth.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

Most Myki users have the ability to buy and top up their cards at retail outlets WITHOUT having to bail up a bus.
At the present moment, Bellarine residents who wish to buy and/or top up a Myki card without wanting to travel (for example, wanting to do it on payday) do not have an option to buy ot top up without having to bail up a bus (when they can find one).

Your reaction, Revenue, suprises me, as you are the one who actively promotes the ability to buy and top up Mykis at retail outlets as an exciting new feature of Myki. Now you are hinting that it is quite okay for Bellarine residents and tourists to bail up buses merely for the purpose of buying and topping up Myki cards.
Remember that not everyone has access to the internet to be able to buy or top up Myki cards. The average age of the permanent population of towns like Queenscliff is bordering on elderly. I wouldn't expect my grandmother (if she was alive today) to be internet savy enough to be topping up Myki cards (though sone can and do), or be able to own and use a mobile capable of doing the same.
And not everyone who travels on Bellarine buses travels to/from Geelong, and who, as a consequence, will not have access to the Myki machine at the front entrance to Geelong station.

You promote Myki retail outlets, well, where are they in places like Queenscliff, or Point Lonsdale, or even Leopold? Confused
"xxxxlbear"


I'm not sure that it would occur to most people to 'bail up a bus'. Any drivers want to comment on the frequency with which this happens?

I think that for most people, your dear departed grandmother included, it would be acceptable to simply purchase a card on board the bus the first time, and then top it up on board on subsequent trips.

The market for people who aren't prepared to top up online are the ones who will benefit the most from purchasing or reloading cards on board the bus.

So your main concern is that people might want to top up on pay day or pension day? This wasn't possible in the past - so you are suggesting that this is a missed benefit of the new system. I'm not so sure it's such missed benefit.

Retail agents are awesome - but when you are talking about areas with very spread out population - is it reasonable to have an extensive reload network in those areas?  With relatively low patronage on those routes, I'm not seeing the neccessary operational or customer benefits that would warrant the expense of the retail network at this time. As patronage in these areas increase, it might become viable.

This doesn't mean to say there might not be a need for some well placed outlets.

Anyone else see the irony of half the room saying myki cost too much and the other half wanting things that will make it cost more?  Wink
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
True - so that was the decision. Do you go and buy new equipment that is mag stripe - or do you go and buy new equipment that is smartcard.  The point I'm making (badly) is that if you elected to stay with mag stripe, then you'd have to replace a great deal of the equipment with new machine types anyway.  The other factor is that you need less equipment with smartcards - because people can reload with a variety of channels, the number of transactions is expected to fall - which means you need one or two CVMs, rather than a lot more.  Queues in smartcard systems are largely self regulating the long term - if there is consistently a queue at a station then people shift to other channels (eg. I'm not going to top up at the station - there will be a queue - I'll do it at the 7-Eleven on the way).  So that's another benefit of smartcard - a lot less equipment to cope with growth.
Revenue
Not to mention that mag stripe will become more expensive to maintain/replace as parts become more scarce.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I am not arguing with you, Revenue. Just like a typical male (you are obviously male), you are missing my point.
The Bellarine Peninsula does NOT have ANY Myki retail outlets ANYWHERE. That is the point I am making.
Whatever points you make for having retail outlets in Melbourne...well why aren't they valid for the Bellarine Peninsula?
Why can't the newsagency, or whatever other small business you can name in Queenscliff and Point Lonsdale, sell/top up Mykis?

Whatever reason you can think of for having a Myki retail outlet in Melbourne, then you have justified having at least one in the Bellarine region.

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