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Introduction of National Train Communication System (NTCS)

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      cootanee Chief Commissioner

    Location: North of the border!
    Well ICE only ever has to been seen as a safety threat once then the aluminium house of cards falls in .
    ARTC are not untouchable and are not the safety regulators . They don't rule supreme and don't own ANY rail infrastructure at least on the east coast , the plug can be pulled on them very easily if necessary . JH in NSW s living proof that ARTC is a long way from perfect and have been sent packing because of it . Don't think it can't happen again .
    BDA

    Is the NTCS system a safety threat Shocked? It would be your duty to report it.

    Then let the chips hit the fan and fall where they may because ARTC and anyone else is not above it. Nothing new there.

    It is ARTC's responsibility to make infrastructure management and investment decisions. They do so under long term agreements between the infrastructure owners and the federal government. There appears no move to change that. In any case if ARTC was to disappear tomorrow someone would pick up the lot including the NTCS.

    Now what the heck has the CRN has got to do with it???? That was a separate arrangement which expired and John Holland picked up a new different contract. Regardless that didn't stop NSW handing over the rest of the MRN to ARTC or agree to ARTC having a role in allocating NSFC track access.

    It sounds like ARTC should make no changes because one day they will hand it all back. So what's the point?
    Posted: 03 Aug 2013 16:47

    Last edited by cootanee on 03 Aug 2013 21:12; edited 1 time in total

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      Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

    Location: Shh, I'm hiding
    Mandatory , hmm that sounds very monopoly with ICE comms . I wonder what happens if an operator comes up with a better system and says nope bash ICE systems up yer smeg ?
    "BDA"


    It's no different to the requirement in the past for a country net radio to be fitted in the ARTC network, or the Victorian radio down south etc.
    Posted: 03 Aug 2013 22:02
      beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Gorton Foundry
    Has anyone looked at the ludicrous situation of the UHF's ability to cut in over the top of a discreet driver-controller call? Not dangerous at all that one.
    Posted: 04 Aug 2013 21:08
      buddha Beginner

    ICE has a monolpoly because the protocol used between the ICE unit and the control centre is proprietary - another radio supplier cannot gain access to the interface protocol.

    The ICE has separate speakers so a UHF call will not cut in over the top of a driver-controller NextG/satellite call.  Under ICE set up one speaker can be reserved for NextG/satellite calls and the second speaker for UHF calls.  They also have separate volume controls.

    This is not a safety issue.
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 07:24
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Yes volume control , clunky slow functions to go through and the minimum setting - is too high - on a modern locomotive anyway .  
    I was recently making a work related call on my phone and the person at the other end couldn't hear me or speak because of the "background" radio transmissions . All I could tell him was that it's an ICE radio and it's impossible to turn it down . I suppose I could have pulled the plug on yon ICE and used the hand held radio , at least it has a volume nob - unlike fancy POS ally box .
    How many years ago did we put a man on the moon , I wonder if they had real volume control .
    The technology may be good but the interface is something else .
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 08:12
      buddha Beginner

    The default/minimum settings can be configured via a webpage.  If the minimum settings are wrong they should be adjusted!

    The ICE, like any system has strengths/weaknesses.  However the user interface was developed & approved in consultation with the major operators.
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 09:04
      beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Gorton Foundry
    I appreciate that Buddha.

    However when you're on a discreet call you don't need other radio traffic in the cab, the CountryNet used to to cancel out the WB for this reason so why can the ICE not do this!?

    I've been getting authorisation to pass a signal at stop via a verbal instruction and some mongo wanting to get a hold of Broadmeadow came belting in over the top. Tell me that's not a safety issue that could be easily avoided?
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 10:13
      buddha Beginner

    ICE could be configured to mute UHF radio while on a call.  Just have to get the rail operator to request the feature.  The fact that it is not done probably indicates the rail operators had a conern with this feature.

    It is not a safety issue.  If your verbal instructions to pass a signal at stop are not clear because of the interference then you do not move your train, and simply get the controller to repeat the instruction!

    A better move would be to get rid of the WB bases which are a legacy issue from when not all trains had CountryNet!
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 10:27
      beyerpeacock Assistant Commissioner

    Location: Gorton Foundry
    That's all I would be thinking, an automatic mute feature when a discreet call comes over would be the go. It would make things so much easier from the In Cab perspective.

    It's in theory, a great system. It just needs some tweaking.
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 10:43
      cootanee Chief Commissioner

    Location: North of the border!
    ...

    It's in theory, a great system. It just needs some tweaking.
    beyerpeacock
    The in cab equipment will also evolve - much easier as mostly it's through software anyway. I can't recall any system where we didn't make fixes and/or enhancements because of operational issues.

    And in xx years time when they come to replace it... guess how great this will be compared to the new fangled thing that really needs the safety regulators to step in and stop it. Exclamation

    Comes with the territory Smile
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 15:14
      theanimal Chief Commissioner

    possibly the reason that the driver cannot mute the radio is for that reason, to prevent the radio from being attenuated, and a call missed?
    Posted: 05 Aug 2013 20:12
      BDA Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    Obviously emergency calls never go across the WB , the controller isn't sitting in the train coming at you whilst your trains all over the rail corridor . And then the WB gets muted ...
    Posted: 06 Aug 2013 08:47
      cootanee Chief Commissioner

    Location: North of the border!
    Clearly BDA has significant concerns and these need to be passed on officially.

    Even if nothing comes of it you'll get a response and at least you have done your bit in the chain of responsibility.

    After all SAFETY IS EVERYONES BUSINESS Exclamation
    Posted: 09 Aug 2013 12:19
      clayton4115 Locomotive Driver

    2 years on and we are still waiting for a public access to 4trak train tracking system, any updates on this ?
    Posted: 01 Mar 2015 08:57
      Fireman Dave Chief Commissioner

    Location: Shh, I'm hiding
    More to the point, does the public need access to 4trak? Ummm, no.
    Posted: 02 Mar 2015 20:38
      clayton4115 Locomotive Driver

    More to the point, does the public need access to 4trak? Ummm, no.
    Fireman Dave
    does the public need access to plane tracking and ship tracking? same reason for train tracking.
    Posted: 02 Mar 2015 20:42
      X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    2 years on and we are still waiting for a public access to 4trak train tracking system, any updates on this ?
    clayton4115
    After the terror threat level no
    Posted: 02 Mar 2015 20:45
      X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    2 years on and we are still waiting for a public access to 4trak train tracking system, any updates on this ?
    After the terror threat level no
    Posted: 02 Mar 2015 20:45
      seb2351 Chief Commissioner

    Location: Sydney
    2 years on and we are still waiting for a public access to 4trak train tracking system, any updates on this ?
    clayton4115
    bahahaahahaha

    Oh wait? You were serious?


    BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    A little early for April Fools, but I will pay that one.
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 14:59
      bingley hall Minister for Railways

    Location: Last train to Skaville
    After the terror threat level no
    X'Trapolis-904M
    So there are no terror threats to Australian aviation?

    Trainspotters Laughing
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 16:42
      Pressman Spirit of the Vine

    Location: Wherever the Tin Chook or Qantas takes me
    does the public need access to plane tracking and ship tracking? same reason for train tracking.
    clayton4115
    Members of the General Public can hold Pilot's Licences and fly aircraft (including ultra-lights) and thus need to be aware of air traffic.

    Likewise members of the general public can jump on board their boats and yachts and set sail, knowledge of sea traffic is essential in many areas.

    And how many members of the general public have locos or Hi-rail vehicles and can legitimately operate them on the rail network?

    So, NOT the same reason at all.
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 17:42
      KRviator Moderator

    Location: Up the front
    does the public need access to plane tracking and ship tracking? same reason for train tracking.
    clayton4115
    Why do you think Airservices Australia have refused to allow access to TAAATS?
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 20:28
      X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    There is a portal I sometime use that is available to the public on the ASA Website and it works.

    The ARTC Are Never Going To make 4trak available to RP Users, so stop asking if 'Brian' is going to talk to them too.


    My 2c
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 20:37
      clayton4115 Locomotive Driver

    Why do you think Airservices Australia have refused to allow access to TAAATS?
    KRviator
    why do I need access to TAAATS when I have access to 2 radar websites that show me all the planes around the globe?
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 20:37
      X'Trapolis-904M Deputy Commissioner

    Location: Melbourne
    why do I need access to TAAATS when I have access to 2 radar websites that show me all the planes around the globe?
    clayton4115
    Here look at webtrak same as 4trak but for planes webtrak
    Posted: 03 Mar 2015 20:38

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