SDS Models web update

 
  a6et Minister for Railways

a little website update today, stocks of goodies will be available at the weekends exhibition.

I received some 1950's tankers in the mail this week - I discovered there is a little bag hidden behind the plastic insert that cradles the model, in that bag you'll find the bits for buffers if you want to model the earlier periods Smile
Poath Junction

The buffers were also in the originals NQR versions.  However be aware that if wanting to fit them, they will actually lock on any curves up to & including 28", if you use the 2 pieces that are included. By simply fitting the buffer head no issues on 28" curves & ok on medium & above Peco points.

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  Poath Junction Chief Commissioner

Location: In front of a computer most of the time.
TE wagon page now online at http://sdsmodels.com.au/tec.htm , lots & lots of goodies to see including the Centurion tanks and other loads to suit the wagons. So many options the order form is two pages!

BCW's are expected to arrive in about a week. (learnt via order update email)
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
TE wagon page now online at http://sdsmodels.com.au/tec.htm , lots & lots of goodies to see including the Centurion tanks and other loads to suit the wagons. So many options the order form is two pages!

BCW's are expected to arrive in about a week. (learnt via order update email)
Poath Junction
Thanks for alerting me to this PJ.

I have just emailed my order form for 1 x Pack 'B' of 3x TE + Centurion Tank.

Now just waiting for the Auscision Order Form for the 45 class and my life will be complete Wink

Roachie
  FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

Hi;
did these ever run into Victoria???
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Hi;
did these ever run into Victoria???
FlatTopT413
Would have been NSWGR branch lines in Victoria such as Bandiord, Wodonga coal sidings and not much else.  No bogie exchange and no NE SG (maybe during construction).

Mark
  FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

Hi Mark;
thanks for reply. None for me then.
Have to find other types to haul my APCs, Tillys and Leopards.
  a6et Minister for Railways

I think you will find that the TE's were not suitable for Bogie Exchange, even when the original friction bearing bogies were later replaced with RB's.

Question for the experts though, was there an SG siding at Puka, following the opening of the SG to Melbourne, as it was very much used as transit for much of the armour used during the Vietnam war, thus post 62.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
I think you will find that the TE's were not suitable for Bogie Exchange, even when the original friction bearing bogies were later replaced with RB's.

Question for the experts though, was there an SG siding at Puka, following the opening of the SG to Melbourne, as it was very much used as transit for much of the armour used during the Vietnam war, thus post 62.
a6et
I don't believe that the VR ever bogie exchanged to BG any truck without an X at the end of it's code.  Hopefully someone will come up with a rare exception to this rule.  (Yes I know, there was a SG Z van or 2 used during construction).

There was never a railway to Puckapunyal unless you count a branch of the McIvor tramway (private steam hauled timber gathering line which entered the area from the NW).  Mangalore, Seymour and Dysart had military sidings but no SG to my understanding.  Dysart was used to serve Pucka but it's a 12km road trip.

I suspect armour was transshipped at Bandiord by the army to VR flats and delivered to Dysart before and after the opening of the NE SG.

Mark
  tajamr Chief Train Controller

Location: Putting up with AC4000's crap
Dumb question, how would they have marshalled these flat wagons when loaded with a tank? Just added randomly to goods trains or marshalled as a block.
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Dumb question, how would they have marshalled these flat wagons when loaded with a tank? Just added randomly to goods trains or marshalled as a block.
tajamr
The only pics I have in my book collection, show them in "block" trains along with other military items, such as trucks, ambo's, landrovers, field guns etc.

Of course, that is not to say that they didn't also move them as single units.

Roachie
  a6et Minister for Railways

I don't believe that the VR ever bogie exchanged to BG any truck without an X at the end of it's code.  Hopefully someone will come up with a rare exception to this rule.  (Yes I know, there was a SG Z van or 2 used during construction).

There was never a railway to Puckapunyal unless you count a branch of the McIvor tramway (private steam hauled timber gathering line which entered the area from the NW).  Mangalore, Seymour and Dysart had military sidings but no SG to my understanding.  Dysart was used to serve Pucka but it's a 12km road trip.

I suspect armour was transshipped at Bandiord by the army to VR flats and delivered to Dysart before and after the opening of the NE SG.

Mark
LaidlayM

Thanks Mark.

The aspect of bogie exchange worked both ways, unless the wagon was accredited for it, it did not happen, or at least not supposed to.

I gather the Bandiord means Bandiana Ordinance depot?   From my memory of those days, Puka was the main training base & launch pad for Vietnam. My last trip to Melbourne some years back I recollect a series of what appeared to be abandoned sidings on the right hand side of the lines, cannot remember if it was on the Albury end of Seymour or Melbourne which I was told was old military transfer sidings.
  a6et Minister for Railways

The only pics I have in my book collection, show them in "block" trains along with other military items, such as trucks, ambo's, landrovers, field guns etc.

Of course, that is not to say that they didn't also move them as single units.

Roachie
Roachie

When the army moved vehicles it was usually in block trains & could have any type of vehicle on them, they would also have a military police escort with them, any time the train went away they got off both sides to watch the train until it departed.

tajamr

The loading of military vehicles on rail wagons were carried out by the military within the confines of the base as they had sidings into them.  The Centurian tanks when loaded had the turret facing to the rear so the gun faced the rear, which meant it was within the wagons dimensions.  That was part of the design of the TE wagons, so no overload/length happened.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

When the army moved vehicles it was usually in block trains & could have any type of vehicle on them, they would also have a military police escort with them, any time the train went away they got off both sides to watch the train until it departed.

tajamr

The loading of military vehicles on rail wagons were carried out by the military within the confines of the base as they had sidings into them.  The Centurian tanks when loaded had the turret facing to the rear so the gun faced the rear, which meant it was within the wagons dimensions.  That was part of the design of the TE wagons, so no overload/length happened.
a6et

True they usually ran as a block train however I have an interesting photo from 1972 near Mossvale of a train hauled by 2 x 422 class with two TEs loaded with tanks marshalled behind locos with the rest of the trains loading being plate and coil steel from Port Kembla.
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Thanks Mark.

The aspect of bogie exchange worked both ways, unless the wagon was accredited for it, it did not happen, or at least not supposed to.

I gather the Bandiord means Bandiana Ordinance depot?   From my memory of those days, Puka was the main training base & launch pad for Vietnam. My last trip to Melbourne some years back I recollect a series of what appeared to be abandoned sidings on the right hand side of the lines, cannot remember if it was on the Albury end of Seymour or Melbourne which I was told was old military transfer sidings.
a6et
Bandiord was the NSWGR abbreviation for Bandiana Ordinance depot, I have seen it used as the name on a NSWGR signalling diagramme (not that I can find it on-line) so thought it's use was widely known in an NSWGR context.  The VR called the signal diagramme Bandiana but used the word Bandiord as well http://www.victorianrailways.net/signaling/completedia/bandianasgframe.html.

I suspect those abandoned sidings (maybe just buildings with no track) were on the western side of the railway south of Seymour and the Goulburn river which would make them the remnants of Dysart.

Mark
  a6et Minister for Railways

Bandiord was the NSWGR abbreviation for Bandiana Ordinance depot, I have seen it used as the name on a NSWGR signalling diagramme (not that I can find it on-line) so thought it's use was widely known in an NSWGR context.  The VR called the signal diagramme Bandiana but used the word Bandiord as well http://www.victorianrailways.net/signaling/completedia/bandianasgframe.html.

I suspect those abandoned sidings (maybe just buildings with no track) were on the western side of the railway south of Seymour and the Goulburn river which would make them the remnants of Dysart.

Mark
LaidlayM

Thanks again Mark.  There were actually tracks in place & a platform along the furthest road from the main line, but I can't remember if there were any buildings left other than a type of shelter.  The sidings were quite long & could not tell (or remember) if they had access from both ends.
I just looked that location up on Google Earth, & I would say that was what I saw.  I thought that may have been the location for the army to unload their consignments.  Where, did the trains get unloaded, was there a spur or in Seymour yard & then simply driven to the base?
I honestly do not recollect ever hearing the name, & I did work a few full military trains over the years.
  a6et Minister for Railways

True they usually ran as a block train however I have an interesting photo from 1972 near Mossvale of a train hauled by 2 x 422 class with two TEs loaded with tanks marshalled behind locos with the rest of the trains loading being plate and coil steel from Port Kembla.
2LaGrange

That is an interesting working, did the train come off the branch, or from Sydney?  Certainly towards the end of the Vietnam war, & not much later all but saw the end of the Defence Dept using rail, as they started to get their big road movers.
  2LaGrange Train Controller

That is an interesting working, did the train come off the branch, or from Sydney?  Certainly towards the end of the Vietnam war, & not much later all but saw the end of the Defence Dept using rail, as they started to get their big road movers.
a6et

Unfortunatley their were only brief notes on the slide stating it was taken at Exeter 09/07/1972 certainly the out of gauge steel loading is ex PK so would have come up from the coast via robo and I would assume that the tanks also did but I guess they could have been added at M.V ?
  LaidlayM Chief Commissioner

Location: Research
Thanks again Mark.  There were actually tracks in place & a platform along the furthest road from the main line, but I can't remember if there were any buildings left other than a type of shelter.  The sidings were quite long & could not tell (or remember) if they had access from both ends.
I just looked that location up on Google Earth, & I would say that was what I saw.  I thought that may have been the location for the army to unload their consignments.  Where, did the trains get unloaded, was there a spur or in Seymour yard & then simply driven to the base?
I honestly do not recollect ever hearing the name, & I did work a few full military trains over the years.
a6et
It sounds like Rod Young drove a train or two from Seymour area that was headed for Darwin which would be more recent years (SG to Darwin opened in '03) and SG.  I can only imagine that it was loaded at the passing loop immediately north of Seymour direct from road transport to flat wagons.  Maybe that happened more than I thought in earlier years.  Still, they wouldn't have used TE flats.

Mark
  a6et Minister for Railways

Unfortunatley their were only brief notes on the slide stating it was taken at Exeter 09/07/1972 certainly the out of gauge steel loading is ex PK so would have come up from the coast via robo and I would assume that the tanks also did but I guess they could have been added at M.V ?
2LaGrange

Not necessarily.  Out of gauge trains had fair restrictions on them, & even those off the coast were problematic especially with the single line tunnels & tight loading gauge.  I had worked out of gauge trains that came off the SC, from Enfield to Goulburn, & they were regulars on Saturday evenings.  They often combined with other loading in Enfield also.

I am not too sure that there were any army bases on the Illawarra that were equipped with Centurians, as most of the lancer barracks were primarily equipped with Light armour rather than heavy.
A couple of other aspects to consider is that usually the loads for 2 engines, including 422cl provided for full loads for the main south, which would have been more than 3 engines on the mountain, also wire transport in those days was primarily from Newcastle, whereas the slab & out of gauge traffic came from the PTK heavy bulk mills.

All that said, it quite possible for the train to have been worked from both PTK as well as from Enfield, with the two combining at MV into one train, also not an uncommon event.
  tajamr Chief Train Controller

Location: Putting up with AC4000's crap
The only pics I have in my book collection, show them in "block" trains along with other military items, such as trucks, ambo's, landrovers, field guns etc.

Of course, that is not to say that they didn't also move them as single units.

Roachie
"Roachie"


Roachie, would it be possible to post those pics.
  catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop
At the recent MRNSW convention at Loftus there was an excellent presentation by Rohan Ferguson of Bolivia fame on military vehicles and military trains of the NSWR.

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/

During his presentation he showed what could be the same image as noted above of two (2) TE wagons with tanks on a steel trail train at Exeter.

I seem to recall and I am willing to stand corrected but Rohan may have mentioned that a Centurion Tank on a TE wagon was considered an "out of gauge" load (one of the reasons as to why military trains were typically worked as a block load) and as such in this instance an opportunity was to add the TE wagons to an "out of gauge" steel train. Again I am willing to stand corrected.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be any notes provided on Rohan's talk on the CD that was issued to convention attendees.

Rohan does have the following posts on his blog relating to military trains of the NSWR, which I am surprised that no one has mentioned yet:

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/convention.html

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/military-special.html

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/news-flash.html

Hope that this is of interest.

Regards,

Catchpoint
  a6et Minister for Railways

At the recent MRNSW convention at Loftus there was an excellent presentation by Rohan Ferguson of Bolivia fame on military vehicles and military trains of the NSWR.

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/

During his presentation he showed what could be the same image as noted above of two (2) TE wagons with tanks on a steel trail train at Exeter.

I seem to recall and I am willing to stand corrected but Rohan may have mentioned that a Centurion Tank on a TE wagon was considered an "out of gauge" load (one of the reasons as to why military trains were typically worked as a block load) and as such in this instance an opportunity was to add the TE wagons to an "out of gauge" steel train. Again I am willing to stand corrected.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be any notes provided on Rohan's talk on the CD that was issued to convention attendees.

Rohan does have the following posts on his blog relating to military trains of the NSWR, which I am surprised that no one has mentioned yet:

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/convention.html

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/military-special.html

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/news-flash.html

Hope that this is of interest.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
That is interesting, as out of gauge trains had speed restrictions & other associated conditions applied to their working, it especially applied to going through platforms, with certain platforms the trains had to be sent in back roads or crossed over to the opposite main line track, a reason why the rotten things were slower than pick up trains in an overall running time scenario.

The aspect of whether they were out of gauge or otherwise would be dependant on the extreme edge to the width of the item & by how far it protruded from the sides of the wagon, & certainly the photo's on the SDS advertising page shows them being wider, therefore they are very much likely to have been considered as such.
  br30453 Chief Train Controller

At the recent MRNSW convention at Loftus there was an excellent presentation by Rohan Ferguson of Bolivia fame on military vehicles and military trains of the NSWR.

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/

During his presentation he showed what could be the same image as noted above of two (2) TE wagons with tanks on a steel trail train at Exeter.

I seem to recall and I am willing to stand corrected but Rohan may have mentioned that a Centurion Tank on a TE wagon was considered an "out of gauge" load (one of the reasons as to why military trains were typically worked as a block load) and as such in this instance an opportunity was to add the TE wagons to an "out of gauge" steel train. Again I am willing to stand corrected.

Unfortunately there does not seem to be any notes provided on Rohan's talk on the CD that was issued to convention attendees.

Rohan does have the following posts on his blog relating to military trains of the NSWR, which I am surprised that no one has mentioned yet:

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/06/convention.html

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/military-special.html

http://bolivanswgr.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/news-flash.html

Hope that this is of interest.

Regards,

Catchpoint
catchpoint
The NSW Loading Outline allowed for a width of 2970mm.
As the Centurion tanks were 3390mm wide they were "Out of Gauge" and would have had to travel under the conditions set out in a "Special Train Notice".
  Roachie Chief Commissioner

Location: Kadina SA (formerly NSW)
Roachie, would it be possible to post those pics.
tajamr
Hmmm,
 My recollections of what the pic/s contain is rather sketchy and I'll have to wade through my book collection in order to find the pic/s I'm thinking of.

Even then, I would have to scan the photo and post it up here....which is probably going to be in breach of Copyright laws.

If I can find the pic/s I'm thinking of, it might be better if I just provide a page reference so that anybody interested can have a look for themselves. Leave it with me for a few days and I'll see what I can come up with.

Cheers

Roachie
  FlatTopT413 Locomotive Fireman

Hi All;
l found my link to the question asked.

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11372170.htm

TEs did run in Victoria along with other codes for tank transport.

Hope this helps and the link works.

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