g00r Locomotive Fireman

If it is a planned shutdown, like this weekend's Geelong shut, Trotters Joint Venture will run the organising and departure, but the conductors assigned to the services being replaced will be at the coaches checking tickets/Myki cards. But there are usually only 2 conductors and 2 or more platform supervisors.  So it's a lucky dip depending on your destination station.  But I'm sure your sense of civic duty will prevail and you'll pay your way regardless.  After all, the govt has a very expensive tunnel to ruin the inner suburbs to pay for.

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  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
If it is a planned shutdown, like this weekend's Geelong shut, Trotters Joint Venture will run the organising and departure, but the conductors assigned to the services being replaced will be at the coaches checking tickets/Myki cards. But there are usually only 2 conductors and 2 or more platform supervisors.  So it's a lucky dip depending on your destination station.  But I'm sure your sense of civic duty will prevail and you'll pay your way regardless.  After all, the govt has a very expensive tunnel to ruin the inner suburbs to pay for.
g00r
under metro rail replacement buses - people do not have to tag on or off and it was my understanding same will apply with myki with rail replacement under V/Line.

Also under myki - if Melton services are replaced my buses and then you do not have to tag on and off
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Question without notice....

I am not sure if this has been covered before, but I have a query regarding the Geelong  Ballarat road coach service and Myki.
I am aware that both Geelong and Ballarat have gone 'live' with Myki on V/Line trains. But in a small number of weeks, I am travelling to Ballarat from Geelong on the coach, and return.
I have a vague idea that Myki is NOT valid on the Geelong  Ballarat Coach for the full journey (except in possibly suburban Geelong and suburban Ballarat), but tonight when I had a look at the V/Line reservation section, I  checked the fare total, then I read a message at the bottom of the page saying that Myki Pass was available for the service.
The message I got at the bottom of the final page before clicking Buy was:

I am just wondering if Myki Money is available for the coach trip as well, or do I need to buy a paper ticket (in which case, I am happy to buy it online to save time on the day)?

I certainly don't want to be clocking on at Geelong, and clocking off at Ballarat only to find that Myki has charged me for the full rail trip from Geelong to Ballarat via Southern Cross when I could have easily have bought a paper ticket! Laughing
xxxxlbear

It seems as though no-one here knows the answer, so yesterday, when I went to Melbourne for the afternoon, I asked at the Geelong station ticket office, as they said that Myki is NOT valid for travel on the Geelong - Ballarat road coach.

An interesting thing that I have noted on my Myki account, after just checking it a few minutes ago....
In regards to Myki travel on V/Line, yesterday I travelled to Southern Cross from Geelong, and return, on the train.
I touched on at Geelong at 1319hrs (1.19pm) at Geelong, off at Southern Cross at 1430hrs (2.30pm), touched back on at 1508hrs (3.08hrs) and finally off at Geelong at 1658hrs (4.58pm) after having something to eat and a coffee with a mate of mine at Southern Cross, and was only docked $3.85 for the inward bound trip. No-charge was applied to my return trip back to Geelong.
Just wondering why I wasn't charged for the return trip from Melbourne back to Geelong.
(perhaps the return trip is free if done within a certain time limit from when someone last touches off perhaps?) Confused
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
It seems as though no-one here knows the answer, so yesterday, when I went to Melbourne for the afternoon, I asked at the Geelong station ticket office, as they said that Myki is NOT valid for travel on the Geelong - Ballarat road coach.

An interesting thing that I have noted on my Myki account, after just checking it a few minutes ago....
In regards to Myki travel on V/Line, yesterday I travelled to Southern Cross from Geelong, and return, on the train.
I touched on at Geelong at 1319hrs (1.19pm) at Geelong, off at Southern Cross at 1430hrs (2.30pm), touched back on at 1508hrs (3.08hrs) and finally off at Geelong at 1658hrs (4.58pm) after having something to eat and a coffee with a mate of mine at Southern Cross, and was only docked $3.85 for the inward bound trip. No-charge was applied to my return trip back to Geelong.
Just wondering why I wasn't charged for the return trip from Melbourne back to Geelong.
(perhaps the return trip is free if done within a certain time limit from when someone last touches off perhaps?) Confused
xxxxlbear
that is correct  most myki is not valid at this stage on the Geelong - Ballarat road coach

you trip from Melbourne to Geelong:
touch on at 1.19pm and touch off at 2.30pm

so you myki should have a zone 1 to 4 single fare that expires at 4pm
based on the following:
you touch on at 1:19pm and which get around up to 2pm and then plus two hours
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Ah...so if one touches on at Southern Cross for the return journey home within 2 hours of touching on for the initial inward bound journey, then the return journey is free. That sounds logical seeing as I initially touched on at Geelong at 1.19pm (meaning my 2 hours started at 2pm), and my touch on at Southern Cross for the homeward bound trip was at 3.08hrs well and truly before the 2 hours expired at 4pm.
Thanks Melbtrip Smile
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
Ah...so if one touches on at Southern Cross for the return journey home within 2 hours of touching on for the initial inward bound journey, then the return journey is free. That sounds logical seeing as I initially touched on at Geelong at 1.19pm (meaning my 2 hours started at 2pm), and my touch on at Southern Cross for the homeward bound trip was at 3.08hrs well and truly before the 2 hours expired at 4pm.
Thanks Melbtrip Smile
xxxxlbear
also I like to point out with myki that people may not know when traveling on the V/Line services:

  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
Since Myki was introduced on the Ballarat line I have not paid the same fare twice. However, given the fact I am now paying about half the fare compared to a paper ticket I'm certainly not complaining. Most days I can get to Melbourne and back for around  $ 6:20 and that's with touching on and off everywhere including travel on Melbourne trams and trains as well as V/Line.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
Took my first V/Line trip with myki yesterday and the conductor did not appear to set anything when checking my card. Do they set it beforehand and do they set the destination or service number?
  msheldrick Station Staff

afaik the conductor just checks to see if you have enough Myki Money, or a Myki Pass on the card, and that's it...


However, there is a bug for those with Half Yearly and Yearly VPT Student Passes (Zone 0-52 Pass), they show up as Invalid on the Conductor's Scanners (but not on Metro/Yarra Trams/BusVic AOs'), even when Touched On, so I've been told to just show my Concession Card from now on
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
afaik the conductor just checks to see if you have enough Myki Money, or a Myki Pass on the card, and that's it...


However, there is a bug for those with Half Yearly and Yearly VPT Student Passes (Zone 0-52 Pass), they show up as Invalid on the Conductor's Scanners (but not on Metro/Yarra Trams/BusVic AOs'), even when Touched On, so I've been told to just show my Concession Card from now on.
msheldrick
That's what I saw. I'm wondering if they set the service no. or destination beforehand so myki knows what the default fare for that service is.
  railblogger Chief Commissioner

Location: At the back of the train, quitely doing exactly what you'd expect.
afaik the conductor just checks to see if you have enough Myki Money, or a Myki Pass on the card, and that's it...


However, there is a bug for those with Half Yearly and Yearly VPT Student Passes (Zone 0-52 Pass), they show up as Invalid on the Conductor's Scanners (but not on Metro/Yarra Trams/BusVic AOs'), even when Touched On, so I've been told to just show my Concession Card from now on
msheldrick
Got an answer from the PTv hub today. They say that the conductor is supposed to set the default fare when they check your card and if they don't the default fare is the highest fare possible regardless of line. As to whether the system knows whether you've travelled on V/Line on not they didn't say but judging by my myki transaction I would say this is set when the conductor checks your card.
  Calgully Deputy Commissioner

Location:
Got an answer from the PTv hub today. They say that the conductor is supposed to set the default fare when they check your card and if they don't the default fare is the highest fare possible regardless of line.
railblogger

So, if I board a Vline train at Sunshine for Ardeer, I will be charged for a trip to Bendigo unless the conductor does his job properly.  And after Myki is rolled out to buses then I'll be charged for a trip to Mildura unless I go and roust up the connie before I get off at Ardeer.

That just cant work.
  g00r Locomotive Fireman

Default fare is what you will get charged if you fail to touch off. Moral of the story, touch off at Ardeer
  Mitty Assistant Commissioner

Location: Hawthorn
So, if I board a Vline train at Sunshine for Ardeer, I will be charged for a trip to Bendigo unless the conductor does his job properly.  And after Myki is rolled out to buses then I'll be charged for a trip to Mildura unless I go and roust up the connie before I get off at Ardeer.

That just cant work.
Calgully
Actually it's the other way around.  If you touch on at Sunshine and the Conductor does nothing, the most you would lose is a zone 1+2 fare.  It's when the Conductor checks your card and applies a default fare to the end of the line (eg Bendigo) that you would pay more if you didn't touch off.

Myki isn't valid past Bendigo so you would never get charged for a trip to Mildura.  It was previously planned for that to happen but Ted/Denis and co reduced the scope of the project.
  Revenue Chief Commissioner

It's pretty simple - touch on and touch off to pay the correct fare. Pretty simple passenger message.  Smile

The role of the conductor is to reset the default fare to the end of the trip so that a customer can't fare evade by not touching off (and paying the cheaper Zone 1+2 fare). The conductor check isn't for the customer's benefit - it's to protect revenue. In terms of messaging to customers - it would probably be best if the conductors just told people they were checking they had touched on. More information than that would just be confusing.
  melbtrip Chief Commissioner

Location: Annoying Orange
It's pretty simple - touch on and touch off to pay the correct fare. Pretty simple passenger message.  Smile

The role of the conductor is to reset the default fare to the end of the trip so that a customer can't fare evade by not touching off (and paying the cheaper Zone 1+2 fare). The conductor check isn't for the customer's benefit - it's to protect revenue. In terms of messaging to customers - it would probably be best if the conductors just told people they were checking they had touched on. More information than that would just be confusing.
Revenue
conductors are not authorised officers and have same power for checking tickets as does bus drivers do (note they only can asked).

people  are coming to  terms  they many not have to pay for public transport and get away with it and when there is little or no repercussions for thier actions.


The other question why would a bus drive  or  conductor ask to see someones myki if this may happen to them:
Bus driver attacked, spat on after myki request at Northland

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bus-d ... z2c15GUs1B
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bus-d ... 2qo1a.html

It time for you deparment to look at good fare sturcture/system that works.

You have number ways go about it-

  • Have gates at high volume stations - so people must touch on and off at
  • Set the deafult fare at high level and which sydney will be doing with there new smartcard
  • V/Line service and service going pass zone 2 area - have it own platforms at stations and where the myki  are set a higher deafult fare when touch on
  • Extend the zone 2 to V/Line commuter belt
  • redesign the fare sturcture to be like sydeny fare system and have a weekly cap- note train will have a defualt fare around 8.10 for person does not toch off.
Personally I think Myki fare structure should be simple and easy to understand and should be like Sydney smart card fares and example of simple fare system for Melbourne and V/Line commuter services.


include

Melboure zone 1
not include zone 1 single fare daily cap weekly cap
. 1 $2.00 $4.00 $16.00
1 2 $4.00 $8.00 $32.00
2 3 $5.81 $11.63 $46.50
3 4 $6.64 $13.28 $53.10
4 . $7.07 $14.14 $56.55
5 . $7.50 $15.00 $60.00
. . . . .
concession fare 50% of fare . . .
. . . .
Pensioner Excursion Ticket . . $3.50
weekend daily cap . . . $3.50


If people do not toch off when using the train service  and they get charge with a higher fare of $7.50 in this example
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
[quote=melbtrip]conductors are not authorised officers and have same power for checking tickets as does bus drivers do (note they only can asked).

people are coming to terms they many not have to pay for public transport and get away with it and when there is little or no repercussions for thier actions.


The other question why would a bus drive or conductor ask to see someones myki if this may happen to them:
Bus driver attacked, spat on after myki request at Northland

Read more: [url=http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bus-driver-attacked-spat-on-after-myki-request-at-northland-20130726-2qo1a.html#ixzz2c15GUs1B]http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bus-d ... z2c15GUs1B[/url]
[url=http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bus-d ... 2qo1a.html]http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bus-d ... 2qo1a.html[/url]

It time for you deparment to look at good fare sturcture/system that works.

You have number ways go about it-

[ul][li]Have gates at high volume stations - so people must touch on and off at[/li][li]Set the deafult fare at high level and which sydney will be doing with there new smartcard[/li][li]V/Line service and service going pass zone 2 area - have it own platforms at stations and where the myki are set a higher deafult fare when touch on[/li][li]Extend the zone 2 to V/Line commuter belt[/li][li]redesign the fare sturcture to be like sydeny fare system and have a weekly cap- note train will have a defualt fare around 8.10 for person does not toch off.[/li][/ul]Personally I think Myki fare structure should be simple and easy to understand and should be like Sydney smart card fares and example of simple fare system for Melbourne and V/Line commuter services.


[table][tr][td]include

Melboure zone 1[/td][td] not include zone 1[/td][td] single fare[/td][td] daily cap [/td][td] weekly cap[/td][/tr][tr][td].[/td][td]1[/td][td]$2.00[/td][td]$4.00[/td][td]$16.00[/td][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]$4.00[/td][td]$8.00[/td][td]$32.00[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]$5.81[/td][td]$11.63[/td][td]$46.50[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]$6.64[/td][td]$13.28[/td][td]$53.10[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td].[/td][td]$7.07[/td][td]$14.14[/td][td]$56.55[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td].[/td][td]$7.50[/td][td]$15.00[/td][td]$60.00[/td][/tr][tr][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][/tr][tr][td]concession fare 50% of fare[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][/tr][tr][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][/tr][tr][td]Pensioner Excursion Ticket[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td]$3.50[/td][/tr][tr][td]weekend daily cap [/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td].[/td][td]$3.50[/td][/tr][/table]

If people do not toch off when using the train service and they get charge with a higher fare of $7.50 in this example[/quote][color=#000000][size=2][font=Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Two days ago I did another trip to Melbourne and back from Ballarat by train. The total cost was [center][color=#444545][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]$6.23. Myki is proving to save me around 50% on the paper fare. V/Line will start losing money at this rate.[/font][/color][/center][/font][/size][/color]
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
Two days ago I did another trip to Melbourne and back from Ballarat by train. The total cost was
$6.23. Myki is proving to save me around 50% on the paper fare. V/Line will start losing money at this rate.

dean65
Throughly agree with you re V/line losing money with Myki.
AS previously noted in this thread, last fortnight, I travelled to Southern Cross and back from Geelong. I touched on at Geelong, off at Southern Cross, but because I touched on again for the return trip within 2 hours of initially touching on at Geelong, the total fare I paid for Geelong to Southern Cross and back was $3.85 (confirmed by checking my Myki account this morning).
If I had purchased a paper based ticket from the booking office at Geelong, it would have cost me $7.80 for an off peak return concession Confused
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
I just returned from Sydney, and boy, are they dumb up there.
They seem determined to help tourists - imagine that crazy idea.
I can walk from my hotel to Central station, speak to a human, and buy a Day Tripper ticket which covers trains, buses and ferries in the metropolitan area for the whole day. Why do the words "tourist friendly" spring to mind in Sydney but not in Melbourne?
  Revenue Chief Commissioner
  Valvegear Dr Beeching

Location: Norda Fittazroy
So that's about $22 for a my multi day ticket.
"Revenue"


And when you're wielding a Seniors' Card it's $2.50.
But; and this is where Revenue quite predictably avoids the issue, it's convenient and user-friendly, and you can't do anything like it in Melbourne. As I said, it is ideal for the tourist, and Revenue has no answer for this, because there is none.

This morning, a Sydney lady who got off the same Skybus as me, wanted somewhere to enquire about her Myki.  I escorted her to a building inside SCS labelled "PT-V".  Her comment was that she would never have (a) found it, and (b) known what PT-V meant anyway. As for any prominently labelled Myki assistance - forget it.
  dean65 Locomotive Driver

Location: Ballarat
Throughly agree with you re V/line losing money with Myki.
AS previously noted in this thread, last fortnight, I travelled to Southern Cross and back from Geelong. I touched on at Geelong, off at Southern Cross, but because I touched on again for the return trip within 2 hours of initially touching on at Geelong, the total fare I paid for Geelong to Southern Cross and back was $3.85 (confirmed by checking my Myki account this morning).
If I had purchased a paper based ticket from the booking office at Geelong, it would have cost me $7.80 for an off peak return concession Confused
xxxxlbear
It would seem the trick is not to go outside of the two hour time limit for zone 1 and 2 . Can't confirm this but I'm told at the weekend people are not paying peak fares.
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Interesting about others reporting being under-charged with Myki on V/Line; I'm curious to try using it the next time I go to Ballarat just to see what it charges me.

For some reason Myki failed to charge me any money at all on Monday using the bus and tram and I couldn't figure for the life of me why; I definitely touched on and off properly.  I suppose if I could have been bothered having an internet access account it might have told me why.

I wish I could actually work out what the weakness was in the system so I could get under-charged routinely instead of at random!
  don_dunstan The Ghost of George Stephenson

Location: Adelaide proud
Default fare is what you will get charged if you fail to touch off. Moral of the story, touch off at Ardeer
g00r

I was often charged default fares using suburban trains; I used to get off at Hawthorn and at least once a week the validators would simply fail to work.  The failures seemed to be worse on validators located out in the weather rather than under cover, I'm guessing water seepage is responsible.  At least there's a limit to what you can be charged in the metro area; the fact that you could potentially be charged a V/Line default fare (of what, a hundred bucks?) is quite disturbing to say the least.
  xxxxlbear Token Booking Clerk

Location: Geelong
I was often charged default fares using suburban trains; I used to get off at Hawthorn and at least once a week the validators would simply fail to work.  The failures seemed to be worse on validators located out in the weather rather than under cover, I'm guessing water seepage is responsible.  At least there's a limit to what you can be charged in the metro area; the fact that you could potentially be charged a V/Line default fare (of what, a hundred bucks?) is quite disturbing to say the least.

It is potentially a worry, now that I think about, it if Myki can't differentiate between if you are on a Metro service or a V/Line service.

Throwing an example into the mix, I am curious as to what would happen if one 'touches on' at Flinders Street, or indeed Southern Cross, catch a Traralgon bound V/Line service (and perhaps the conductor scans ones Myki card in the process), and gets off at Pakenham without 'touching off'.
Would Myki charge a default fare to Pakenham? Or, as I suspect, charge a default fare to Traralgon? Or even Bainsdale perhaps?
This would be fair in a way under the existing rules of encouraging travellers to 'touch on and off' and one either chooses not to 'touch off' or simply forgets to, but totally unfair if the Myki machines at the destination aren't working, and one can't 'touch off'.

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