New trains for NWRL / What features d'y'want? (Page 1) / Armchair Operators / Forums / Railpage

lunchbox Locomotive Driver

New single-deck trains will be built for the North West Rail Link (Chatswood to Rouse Hill).

What passenger features do you want, or not want, on the trains?

(Station facilities will be dealt with separately as it's a different contract).

Your answers will be collated and appropriately forwarded. Please keep them sane, and succinct. If I get a lot of windbaggery or silly jokes I'll abandon the whole idea.

Thanks.

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darcyj Chief Train Controller

New single-deck trains will be built for the North West Rail Link (Chatswood to Rouse Hill).

What passenger features do you want, or not want, on the trains?

(Station facilities will be dealt with separately as it's a different contract).

Your answers will be collated and appropriately forwarded. Please keep them sane, and succinct. If I get a lot of windbaggery or silly jokes I'll abandon the whole idea.

Thanks.
lunchbox

Single-deckers allow for more than two doors. So, put doors in the middle of the carriage as well as close to the ends. Big improvement in dwell times.

Wi-fi.

Display boards which show not only the next station, but the travel time remaining to that station.

There's other things that I want, but you asked in respect of the new NWRL rolling stock. I guess those last two could apply across the system. The rest of my wish list certainly could do.

JPD

sydnytrains Chief Commissioner

Location: McDonalds Front counter serving customers

I think this should be shifted to Armchair Operators as it doesn't fit as a proper discussion in the Sydney Suburban forum, but to answer the question ....

I'd personally like to see DD stock on the line rather than SD, for the simple fact that, even though these services will be very frequent, something like 3 mins I heard, I having DD's in peak periods, along side SD's would be good, because of the space and capacity (both seats and standing room). Perhaps if the trial with longitudinal seating goes forward, perhaps mothball some S sets from Enfield and use them for standby trains in peak hour on the NWRL (since some are being saved by for the opening of the SWRL in 2016, as I've heard, that's gotta be confirmed), perhaps that'll work. If anyone has corrections , Im more than happy to hear.

I'm not trying to be an Armchair expert (as I've said above that's where it should be moved), but Im just answering lunchbox's question.

theanimal Chief Commissioner

every carriage a quiet carriage

Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Four doors per car side, mix of transverse and longitudinal seating, plenty of standing room and grab poles.

simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

Why do you want longitudinal seating?

awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Single-deckers allow for more than two doors. So, put doors in the middle of the carriage as well as close to the ends. Big improvement in dwell times.

darcyj

It helps if platforms are straight, or at most gently curved.

This would be a problem at stations like Belmore, which are so badly curved that there is a 40km/h speed limit.

Belmore needs to have island platform rebuilt.

As a dedicated and separate line, the NWRL could have longer trains, say 10 cars, or longer cars, say 25m, with Selective Door Control at short platforms.

Longer trains make signalling headways a tiny bit worse, well worth the extra capacity generated.

Watson374 Chief Commissioner

Location: Fully reclined at the pointy end.

Why do you want longitudinal seating?
"simonl"

Why not?

daveh_oz Junior Train Controller

Gold class carriages like Dubai metro. Also guards/ security staff on train carriages.

Carriage windows that black out at night when on the sky train part so that people can't peer into people's backyards/houses at night.

daveh_oz Junior Train Controller

Gold class carriages like Dubai metro. Also guards/ security staff on train carriages.

Carriage windows that black out at night when on the sky train part so that people can't peer into people's backyards/houses at night.

CMTheTrainGeek Locomotive Fireman

Location: Waiting at Revesby...

Wheelchair Carriage with inbuilt ramp, to avoid congestion with other standard carriages

mboi84 Junior Train Controller

Location: Sydney

Wheelchair Carriage with inbuilt ramp, to avoid congestion with other standard carriages
CMTheTrainGeek

I think this is something they should look into, as long as the ramps aren't a bigger failure like the automated ones on some Sydney Buses (low floor scania's mainly at the Burwood and Kingsgrove depots I believe) which continually breakdown or don't work.

I thnk Destos that give you the information you want. Myabe not in LED format, maybe a TV type destos in the carriage stationg the station stops and times between each station (as mentioned above somewhere) plus also providing networks updates/delays/issues. Along with this, have announcements providing the information as well.

One critical thing I would say is staff levels have to be right for assistance with elderly and disabled pax.

WiFi that is about maybe more than 50mb, say maybe I dunno 1GB at least.

Longitude seating, more than enough grab rails and handrails. Better and more efficient lighting both inside and outside (say the doors like the Waratah and OScar's provide)

Also better Aircon on the trains that actually doesn't make you freeze or get hot quickly. Adjustable like the Waratah's

I would like to have seen double deck trains, as pointed out on the weekend on SMH.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/tunnel-vision-20130816-2s2az.html) which goes to show that even countries that have single deck's are going double decks. Even some trains services in Japan have about 2-4 double decks intermixed or coupled to single decks. I do believe that single decks will be fine as a short term solution, but long term - hell no!!

simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

Why not?
Watson374

- Acceleration pushes you into the person on one side
- Deceleration pusses you into the person on the other side
- Space for feet wastes standing space, whereas with transverse seating feet can be placed under the seat in front.
- Generally reduced seating from transverse seating

Is that enough reasons?

I'd like 2+2 seating with a wide aisle now that I think about it. That's about the only concession I'd make to increased standing room.

Goose Chief Train Controller

Also better Aircon on the trains that actually doesn't make you freeze or get hot quickly. Adjustable like the Waratah's
mboi84

Waratah's air con is not adjustable, except in the crew compartment.

darcyj Chief Train Controller

- Acceleration pushes you into the person on one side
- Deceleration pusses you into the person on the other side
- Space for feet wastes standing space, whereas with transverse seating feet can be placed under the seat in front.
- Generally reduced seating from transverse seating

Is that enough reasons?

I'd like 2+2 seating with a wide aisle now that I think about it. That's about the only concession I'd make to increased standing room.
simonl

The acceleration/deceleration and other inertial forces problem happens on buses, continuously, in both tranverse and longitudinal seating. It does not constitute an argument either for or against either arrangement of seats. But unlike buses, on trains the kind of sudden acceleration or deceleration which would cause a problem is uncommon, not continuous.

We have longitudinal seating already in the end sections of DD carriages. People sit there, their legs in front of them, and numerous people stand in the space between. But the advantages include room for wheelchairs, prams, luggage. I chose that section for travel on Saturday for precisely that reason (hauling my golf clubs).

I don't know what the shape of your legs might be, but I can't put my feet under the seat in front! There's a poorly-placed footrest there in the way.

Yes, there is a reduction in total seating, but you're going to have a reduction in total seating anyway if the carriage is single-deck. I don't mind the 2x2 arrangement with a wide aisle. Probably a combination of 2x2 and longitudinal is best, as has been suggested before. Melbourne does okay with a combination.

JPD

Goose Chief Train Controller

Most people prefer normal forward facing seats unless they are only travelling a few stops. Have a look at which ones fill up first.

darcyj Chief Train Controller

Most people prefer normal forward facing seats unless they are only travelling a few stops. Have a look at which ones fill up first.
Goose

That is true, no doubt about it, but people will sit on anything available if they need to. The fixed seats in Tangaras were very strange for everyone when they appeared in the mid-80s, but now it's just "meh".

Goose Chief Train Controller

That is true, no doubt about it, but people will sit on anything available if they need to. The fixed seats in Tangaras were very strange for everyone when they appeared in the mid-80s, but now it's just "meh".
darcyj

Too bad they didn't keep the fixed seats on the newer trains. It's much better facing the wrong way than standing because of the bogans flipping the seats over to put their feet on them.

simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane

The acceleration/deceleration and other inertial forces problem happens on buses, continuously, in both tranverse and longitudinal seating. It does not constitute an argument either for or against either arrangement of seats. But unlike buses, on trains the kind of sudden acceleration or deceleration which would cause a problem is uncommon, not continuous.
darcyj

Yes it does happen on buses and it's hardly pleasant. The OP asked what we'd like and I'm entitled to express my viewpoint.

As for the feet, I also am not sure what shape your feet are, but at least some of them can certainly go under the seat in front. More so on a T than an S but it still applies on the latter.

tranx Assistant Commissioner

Location: Somewhere in Southwest Sydney

In order:

1. Overhead luggage racks
2. Foot rests
3. Foot warmers
4. More comfortable seating
5. More quiet carriages

awsgc24 Minister for Railways

Location: Sydney

Simonl said: "I'd like 2+2 seating with a wide aisle now that I think about it. That's about the only concession I'd make to increased standing room.Good idea."

Good idea !

People often leave vacant the middle seat with 3+2 seating, so 2+2 seating reuses that space for more standing and more movement.

catchpoint Assistant Commissioner

Location: At the end of a loop

NWRL Tunnels to be built / constructed to accept existing double deck electric train loading gauge to allow for integration across the existing network and future capacity

The M5 and M2 tunnels as-built come to mind....

nice work by the OP in harvesting ideas from this forum and then passing them off as their own.

Regards,

Catchpoint

mikesyd Chief Commissioner

Location: Lurking

I wouldn't get to precious about seating, given that the maximum travel time would be around 30 minutes.

Trains like they use in the Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei Metro systems: Single deck, mostly longitudal seating, WiFi, no eating/drinking allowed, level to platforms.

djf01 Chief Commissioner

Here is a prototype of what I'd like to see them use:

Seriously, I think we'd be better off with the standard size tunnels (duh), and lease the private operator 15 H sets which they are given the remit to get working fully crewless and/or with fully automated signalling. It'd save having to build the dedicated maintenance facility out at Rouse Hill and they could make do with a few storage sidings instead.

lunchbox Locomotive Driver

All noted. Thanks for your thoughts and cooperation.
Lunchbox.

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