Opal Card Roll-out

 
  matthewg Train Controller

There may be temporary, disposable cards introduced for this purpose later on; in the meantime, you still have paper tickets.
Watson374
Melbourne were apparently going to have disposable paper based smart-cards - I guess similar to the paper tickets the ski lifts use at Theadbo, but at some point decided not to do it, but not before stocking up on the paper tickets.
They also apparently bought the hardware to sell these to put on the trams, that equipment also sitting, rotting away, in a warehouse some where.

There is a lot about the details of Opal, the NSW Government hasn't announced or clarified. I think after the TCard disaster and the amount of flack Myki copped (and is still copping) has made them overly cautious. Any thing that might get bad press just isn't discussed.

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  rrroLLa Chief Train Controller

I don't know if this has been mentioned, or is even correct but...

From what I have heard, if you make 8 trips you get the rest for the week free.  A trip is only counted if it is outside an hour of the previous trip so people won't be bale to train-hop for cheaper travel.  

Now suppose I want to travel to Central from Richmond which is $6.60
But I also want to make a quick stop at Parramatta to drop something off.

Under the current system it would cost $6.60 (Richmond-Parra) + $5 (Parra-Central) = $11.60.
Alternatively you could try to get through the barriers at Parramatta (which is pretty easy as they are always open) and then it would be $6.60

So my question is: With the OPAL only counting a trip if it is over an hour since the last, will it still try and charge you for that trip or will it continue on from the last?
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
I don't know if this has been mentioned, or is even correct but...

From what I have heard, if you make 8 trips you get the rest for the week free.  A trip is only counted if it is outside an hour of the previous trip so people won't be bale to train-hop for cheaper travel.  

Now suppose I want to travel to Central from Richmond which is $6.60
But I also want to make a quick stop at Parramatta to drop something off.

Under the current system it would cost $6.60 (Richmond-Parra) + $5 (Parra-Central) = $11.60.
Alternatively you could try to get through the barriers at Parramatta (which is pretty easy as they are always open) and then it would be $6.60

So my question is: With the OPAL only counting a trip if it is over an hour since the last, will it still try and charge you for that trip or will it continue on from the last?
rrroLLa
Interesting question, and something I have been thinking about (although along different lines).

As long as your tag-on is less than an hour after your tag-pff, it will count as one trip, so you will be charged Central-Richmond. Tag back on more than an hour later, it will be two journeys. Interesting, as break-of-journey is not currently permissible with suburban tickets

Where I am coming from is, since I live in Katoomba, if I travel Katoomba-Leura, the system will charge me $3.30 peak, $2.31 off-peak, much cheaper than a cab. If I then return (after a bit over an hour at the Alex Hotel) it will count as a separate journey, so two journeys there. If I do this twice - on Monday and Tuesday (doing the uber-cheap option of Katoomba-Leura and all of a sudden, if I have timed it right (using off-peak), I have spent $18.48, eight journeys, free travel everywhere for the rest of the week.

Certainly beats what I adoing now, paying $22 for a Daypass when I get the time off.

Dave
  matthewg Train Controller

As long as your tag-on is less than an hour after your tag-pff, it will count as one trip, so you will be charged Central-Richmond. Tag back on more than an hour later, it will be two journeys. Interesting, as break-of-journey is not currently permissible with suburban tickets
thadocta

Break of journey might not be allowed on 'point-to-point' tickets, but it IS allowed on Periodicals (I do it all the time). And it's perfectly legal, not just a loop hole in gate-line programming.

In the 'Passenger Fares Handbook' -

(Clause 72(c))
--
c. MyTrain weekly and fortnightly tickets are available for travel  between the stations shown thereon for which the fare has been  paid. Break of journey is permitted in either direction at any station on journey/route paid for.

--
There is a similar item in Clause 73 for the other periodicals.

Where there is a choice of route, typically a break-of-journey is only permitted on the shortest route, except if the airport line involved, where break-of-journey is allowed, even if it's not the shortest route between your station pairs.


It would appear that with Opal, all the weekly/periodical tickets will disappear, replaced with the weekly 'trip' cap. Since break of journey is allowed on a ticket type it's replacing, Opal has to allow break of journey.

Now as to how many people make use of the break of journey 'feature' of their periodical, I don't know. I suspect most people think their weekly is exactly like a 'point-to-point' ticket except its for 5 days., when it's really unlimited trips between any station inside the 'end points' of your ticket for 7 days.

I worked out the fare bands applicable to my commute, and buy my periodical for the maximum extent of the band, not for my commute pair. (It's the same price after all). This has the side effect over covering a large portion of all additional train journeys (over my commute) I'm likely to do and also allows me to catch express trains that don't stop at my station and hop off at the station past mine they do stop at. (Which is also a major regional centre, and not that much further walk from my home anyway.)
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Break of journey might not be allowed on 'point-to-point' tickets, but it IS allowed on Periodicals (I do it all the time). And it's perfectly legal, not just a loop hole in gate-line programming.

In the 'Passenger Fares Handbook' -

(Clause 72(c))
--
c. MyTrain weekly and fortnightly tickets are available for travel  between the stations shown thereon for which the fare has been  paid. Break of journey is permitted in either direction at any station on journey/route paid for.

--
There is a similar item in Clause 73 for the other periodicals.

Where there is a choice of route, typically a break-of-journey is only permitted on the shortest route, except if the airport line involved, where break-of-journey is allowed, even if it's not the shortest route between your station pairs.


It would appear that with Opal, all the weekly/periodical tickets will disappear, replaced with the weekly 'trip' cap. Since break of journey is allowed on a ticket type it's replacing, Opal has to allow break of journey.

Now as to how many people make use of the break of journey 'feature' of their periodical, I don't know. I suspect most people think their weekly is exactly like a 'point-to-point' ticket except its for 5 days., when it's really unlimited trips between any station inside the 'end points' of your ticket for 7 days.

I worked out the fare bands applicable to my commute, and buy my periodical for the maximum extent of the band, not for my commute pair. (It's the same price after all). This has the side effect over covering a large portion of all additional train journeys (over my commute) I'm likely to do and also allows me to catch express trains that don't stop at my station and hop off at the station past mine they do stop at. (Which is also a major regional centre, and not that much further walk from my home anyway.)
matthewg
You are not telling us something we didn't already know.

Everybody already knew that periodical tickets allowed break of journey.

All you are doing is confusing the situation.

A casual user, thereby not a periodical-ticket holder, will be buying point-to-point tickets, which do not allow break-of-journey.

Opal will allow it, for a casual user.

Now, please retreat into your hole, and come back when you have something useful.

(In case you think you were being useful, I was specifically replying to a casual user, not a regular user. You chose to address my reply to a casual user using methodology applicable to regular users. Totally different scenario).

Dave
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
I used Opal three times yesterday (Thursday), Central- Kings X, Kings X-Central, and Kings X- Town Hall. Found the time at the gate to be the same as with a magentic ticket (so no different) but the time saving from not having to purchase a ticket, as well as the cost saving (off-peak fares in all cases) meant it worked out cheaper.

Dave
  matthewg Train Controller


(In case you think you were being useful, I was specifically replying to a casual user, not a regular user. You chose to address my reply to a casual user using methodology applicable to regular users. Totally different scenario).
thadocta

It's not a different scenario on Opal.

Opal will not have periodicals. At least at this stage they have said there will be a weekly 'bonus' of additional trips free after 10 journeys as a replacement for weekly (and by extension) periodical tickets. Unlike many other systems you will not be able to 'load' a periodical onto your card.

So Opal will not be able to tell the difference between a casual user and a regular user till they have have racked up 10 journeys in a week.

So either a casual user gains break of journey, or regular users lose it.

But if they went for the no 'break of journey' for every one option, they open up a nice little loop hole where some one could ride back and forth between two local stations 10 times (or bus hop around the CBD in their lunch break of something) and get charged 10 minimum fares, and then go on multiple free trips to Bomaderry, Dungog or something equally outrageous in the rest of the week. It would be worth long distance commuters time to waste their Monday lunch break riding buses around the CBD to get the rest of their weeks commute free Smile

So every one gets 'break of journey' on Opal. Except it's not really 'break of journey', it's joining a string of 'trips' into a 'journey'.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
It's not a different scenario on Opal.

Opal will not have periodicals. At least at this stage they have said there will be a weekly 'bonus' of additional trips free after 10 journeys as a replacement for weekly (and by extension) periodical tickets. Unlike many other systems you will not be able to 'load' a periodical onto your card.

So Opal will not be able to tell the difference between a casual user and a regular user till they have have racked up 10 journeys in a week.

So either a casual user gains break of journey, or regular users lose it.

But if they went for the no 'break of journey' for every one option, they open up a nice little loop hole where some one could ride back and forth between two local stations 10 times (or bus hop around the CBD in their lunch break of something) and get charged 10 minimum fares, and then go on multiple free trips to Bomaderry, Dungog or something equally outrageous in the rest of the week. It would be worth long distance commuters time to waste their Monday lunch break riding buses around the CBD to get the rest of their weeks commute free Smile

So every one gets 'break of journey' on Opal. Except it's not really 'break of journey', it's joining a string of 'trips' into a 'journey'.
matthewg
You are missing what Iposted, namely that a regular user wll get the same functionality that they get now - the ability to break a journey (since the system will recognise that it is the SAME journey), so will be no worse off. But a casual user, travelling (as an example) Katoomba-Penrith (then 20 minutes at Westfield) the Penrith-Central, will benefit by it being classed as one trip, and charged Katoomba-Central as one through fare, something whicvh is not possible on the current fare structure.

Regular users will retain the same functionality, but casual users will get greater functionality and benefits.

Dave
  maestro Junior Train Controller

Opal is now available on all ferries to the east of the SHB.
https://www.opal.com.au/en/news/opalnews/News_Article_12August2013.html
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
Now suppose I want to travel to Central from Richmond which is $6.60
But I also want to make a quick stop at Parramatta to drop something off.

Under the current system it would cost $6.60 (Richmond-Parra) + $5 (Parra-Central) = $11.60.
Alternatively you could try to get through the barriers at Parramatta (which is pretty easy as they are always open) and then it would be $6.60

So my question is: With the OPAL only counting a trip if it is over an hour since the last, will it still try and charge you for that trip or will it continue on from the last?
rrroLLa
I believe Opal will charge you for Richmond-Parra and Parra-Central but only count as one journey for the purposes of the 8 journey cap.  Some very very small minded people work at IPART.
  daveh_oz Junior Train Controller

Saw Opal poles at a Far Western NSW Trains location earlier this month. With only a couple of services a day I wonder if it was worth the time, money and effort. Try to guess where. Smile
  Goose Chief Train Controller

Saw Opal poles at a Far Western NSW Trains location earlier this month. With only a couple of services a day I wonder if it was worth the time, money and effort. Try to guess where. Smile
daveh_oz
Bathurst is about as far west as you can get.
  daveh_oz Junior Train Controller

Well done. With only 2 services a day was it worth it? Not counting the Lithgow -> Bathurst and vice versa stabling movements. Smile
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
I believe Opal will charge you for Richmond-Parra and Parra-Central but only count as one journey for the purposes of the 8 journey cap.  Some very very small minded people work at IPART.
simonl
Incorrect.

From the Opal website:


Opal trip advantage


An advantage for Opal card customers when making several trips on the same mode of transport is a transfer period of 60 minutes that can determine the fare incurred.


For example, you catch a train to the city from Bondi Junction and leave the station to meet someone and then within 60 minutes re-enter the station and catch a train back to Bondi Junction – that is two trips, one journey and one fare. This will count as one journey toward your Weekly Travel Reward.


So you can break your journey, and as long as you resume within 60 minutes you will pay the through fare.

Dave
  viaprojects Chief Train Controller




So you can break your journey, and as long as you resume within 60 minutes you will pay the through fare.

Dave
thadocta

lol you have to wait 61 minutes for a trip to be finished . but to get your free trips after the 8 trips you have to wait 61 minutes between each transport change. which can be 8 hours of wasted time between each trip. just hope we get charged the lowest ticket price for the whole trip.
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

lol you have to wait 61 minutes for a trip to be finished . but to get your free trips after the 8 trips you have to wait 61 minutes between each transport change. which can be 8 hours of wasted time between each trip. just hope we get charged the lowest ticket price for the whole trip.
"viaprojects"


I don't think you understand the difference between a trip and a journey.
You don't have to wait around just travel normally and you will be charged the lower price.
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Can have a number of trips to make a journey, for example Richmond-Blacktown-Parramatta-Strathfield-Central, and provided each tap on is under 60 minutes from tapping off , it will be charged as Richmond-Central, however spend for example 65 mins at Parramatta then you are charged Richmond-Parramatta and it will count as seperate for the Parramatta-Strathfield-Central component.
  thadocta Chief Commissioner

Location: Katoomba
Can have a number of trips to make a journey, for example Richmond-Blacktown-Parramatta-Strathfield-Central, and provided each tap on is under 60 minutes from tapping off , it will be charged as Richmond-Central, however spend for example 65 mins at Parramatta then you are charged Richmond-Parramatta and it will count as seperate for the Parramatta-Strathfield-Central component.
Blackadder
Where it gets really stupid is when you change modes - e.g. North Katoomba (bus) Katoomba, Katoomba (train) Central, Central (bus) The Rocks, Circular Quay (ferry) Neutral Bay, Neutral Bay (bus) Neutral Bay Junction will be counted as ONE JOURNEY but charged seperately for each of the modes. Someone doing this on a daily basis (and return) would get free system-wide travel for the rest of the week, as would someone doing Katoomba (train) Leura and return four days a week.

Heck, if I had Monday  and Tuesday off, I might even do a bit of a bar crawl, Imperial Hotel (Mt. Victoria), Gardners Inn (Bleakheath), Carrington (Katoomba), Alex (Leura), Grand View (Wentworth Falls). Spending 110 minutes at each of these would get me four journeys in a day, doing it again on Tuesday would get me eight journeys in the week, could then travel to Goulburn, Dungog, wherever, and not pay a cent for the rest of the week.

Dave
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Not sure many people have the time to spend 9 hours a day traveling between locations, but I guess if you do have the time then yes one way to get the 8 journeys needed.
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller


Heck, if I had Monday  and Tuesday off, I might even do a bit of a bar crawl, Imperial Hotel (Mt. Victoria), Gardners Inn (Bleakheath), Carrington (Katoomba), Alex (Leura), Grand View (Wentworth Falls). Spending 110 minutes at each of these would get me four journeys in a day, doing it again on Tuesday would get me eight journeys in the week, could then travel to Goulburn, Dungog, wherever, and not pay a cent for the rest of the week.
"thadocta"


You could do that, and I'm sure some people will do that till the novelty wears off.
The money you save on your pub crawl you could put towards your liver transplant.
  simonl Chief Commissioner

Location: Brisbane
So you can break your journey, and as long as you resume within 60 minutes you will pay the through fare.

Dave
thadocta
Ok, thanks for the correction.  More weirdness with multi-mode vs single mode trips then.
  Kamz Assistant Commissioner

Well done. With only 2 services a day was it worth it? Not counting the Lithgow -> Bathurst and vice versa stabling movements. Smile
daveh_oz

The last thing we need is anomalies and exceptions. So yes, Bathurst is worth it.

Wondabyne and I think all the tiny Hunter Line stations are Opal ready. Finally, passengers who travel between Wallarobba and Wirragulla can pay a fare. Smile
  Blackadder Chief Commissioner

Location: Not the ECRL
Unofficially Opal card readers are working at Nth Sydney (ie switched on but still with the under test stickers over the readers), however the cards appear to be working.
  daveh_oz Junior Train Controller

Any news on Pennant Hills rollout date? Or when $2.50 PET Opal cards are available to purchase?
  Airvan99 Junior Train Controller

Any news on Pennant Hills rollout date? Or when $2.50 PET Opal cards are available to purchase?
"daveh_oz"


Rail for Pennant Hills is due first quarter 2014. Nothing has been said about when PET opals will be available or how it will be distributed. If I was running the distribution, I would get the department that issues the Senior Cards to do it as a combined card.

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