2013 Federal Election - 7th September

 
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
You know.........I had to use a dictionary to look up some of your words. If you keep using big words my dictionary will get more use than my funk and wagnells ever did; at least your classical education did not go to waste.  I do recall you have said somewhere in your previous posts that you can't secure employment in your preferred area, I guess you could probably blame this too on your comrades at the Labor party and their policies to make us the most overqualified underemployed intellectuals in the world.  

Yes, the socialists have to develop a breeding ground to produce their little comrade off springs - what a great growth industry we have here, where expensive pieces of paper can be bought so we can all aim for a job in the service industries in a transitioning economy.  And if you can't get a job in the new economy you can always go back and do a Phd.
2301

I'm sorry but you sound like you have a really big chip on your shoulder about not having a degree.  My standard response to people in your situation is 'go and get one', it's not difficult and you'll be able to salve that wound once and for all.  It's true that I don't have a job in my chosen field (not at the moment) but I've got work coming up in the next month that hopefully will lead me back to professional practice.  Anyway my education has helped me in ways that I never expected like commercial writing so even though it hasn't worked out the way I wanted it to - nothing ever does so why worry.

That last paragraph makes me laugh - do you check under your bed every night for communists?  If not you probably should.  You never know, there could a gremlin from the Kremlin!

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  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
Aaron, you must have worked long and hard to selectively mine that data...
...
On a more serious topic, exactly how much time did you waste looking for all that stuff in an effort to disprove me?  
"don_dunstan"
Finding the data is not difficult, or time consuming, one just needs to know where to look and good training will help you. It took me longer to format the post than it did to find the data to fill it and type it.

After that I made a 4x4x4 LED cube, had approximately 2 3/4 hours sleep and continued through today.
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Finding the data is not difficult, or time consuming, one just needs to know where to look and good training will help you. It took me longer to format the post than it did to find the data to fill it and type it.

After that I made a 4x4x4 LED cube, had approximately 2 3/4 hours sleep and continued through today.
Aaron
For us philastines, would you mind telling me where I can find this data?
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Because the Labor party have lost their way, especially since they have been hijacked by the socialists and greens.  
2301
I'm not following here. Labor have always been a socialist party from day dot, they're supposed to be for the working person, and stand for a "fair go". I'm also interested in how you've come to the conclusion that they've been hijacked by greens. Is this because they might care for the environment a bit more than Liberal do?


After the last 6 years this election is too important in my opinion to vote for independents, and besides none of the independents are worth voting for.
2301
So it's better to vote for the enemy or the totally unknown? It'd be smarter to simply cast a dud vote.


I would class myself as a swinging voter - I will even admit I voted informal in the past couple of elections, but I believe that if we get another 3-4 years of the present bunch of clowns Australia will be a basket case like many countries.  I don't particularly agree with all of Abbott's policies but I believe they are the only votable option at the moment.
2301
Liberal don't have any policies. None have been released to date, but fair enough - it's your vote.

I'm curious how you actually know that Labor will leave us with more debt after the next term. Most of the ministers who have made the decisions you are berating have resigned after the last leadership spill, which saw Rudd returned. How long has he been in office for since the spill? Is it long enough to make that decision already?

What exactly are the Liberal Party offering other than slogans and diatribe against Labor? I'm yet to see any policies come from them, and I think this is where the real danger lies. The fact that Abbott repeatedly says that there is no cause to announce any policies until after the election because he'll have a mandate, is a real cause for concern. It's basically a way of him saying that he'll do what he likes with our money - is this a good scenario to let ourselves into?

How about "Workchoices"? I know Abbott has said that it's dead and buried, but he has let it slip on more than one occasion afterwards that it could well be on the agenda still. If I were a betting man, I'd say it'll be re-introduced under a different name. I know that Abbott's personal friend Gina Rinehardt is after cheaper workers for her mines (she's currently shopping in Africa for them)...What are the odds it would come back under Abbott, presuming he gets in? It's our workplace conditions and entitlements that are at risk. For those of us on lower wages, those conditions and entitlements are of high value. Why should they be taken away from us?

The fact that Abbott also allows his religous beliefs to govern his decision making is of a major concern - how can anyone get a fair go if it's against his beliefs? He's saying now that he'll give heterosexual couples a $200 bonus if they wed. What about gay people - why isn't their marriage allowed to be legal, and where is their $200 bonus? If that's not descrimination, I don't know what is. Will his religious convictions be a cause for him to spend public money on privately run Catholic schools, and hospitals? It's the public that don't have private health that will suffer. I must admit that I'm a big fan of public health - it's saved my life on two seperate occasions. But if it were privately run, I'd be in either massive debt or pushing up daisies through not being able to afford the surgery.

The Liberals are too much of an enigma when it comes to any sensible policy. I see a lot of slogans, but precious little else from them. There's simply too many gaffes from leading members in the media, and too much unknown about them to place any sort of faith in them. There are simply too many questions that need answering before they become close to being any sort of realistic alternative. It also doesn't help that their leader is a complete idiot, who has been caught lying by the media on numerous occasions. Maybe if Turnball was still leader of the Libs, things would be slightly different. At least Turnball had some brains, and a social conscience.

I'm afraid it's a case of "Better the Devil you know, than the Devil you don't" for me.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
For us philastines, would you mind telling me where I can find this data?
Barrington Womble

It looks like the OECD "Better Life Index" which is comprised of a whole lot of weighted measures, probably about as valid as the 'Big Mac' index.  I must be smarter than you are because I found it in less than thirty seconds; aren't I clever?  [insert caustic comments about how dumb my current target is.  Ha!].

In all seriousness, somebody rooting for the coalition should try and defend Marie Antoinette AKA Andrew Robb and his obscene comments about not bothering with competition policy.  If ever there's an example of rewarding 'mates' then that's it.  I've been asking repeatedly over the last few days for at least a comment or an observation about Andrew Robb and there's not been a squeak from anyone on the cheer-squad.  Why?
  David Peters Dr Beeching

Location: "With Hey Boy".
I will be totally honest here about the coming election, I don't think any of them could get a rise in a brothel to tell the truth. It is simply the best of the bad lot really. They all have bad things hidden away.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Agreed David Peters, they're both pretty awful.  Neither side actually has any plans convincing me that I should definitely vote for them but being a user of the public health system (as Barrington points out above) I'm a bit concerned that public access to health will deteriorate even further under the Liberals.  Menzies and Whitlam both expanded public health but in the last 20 years its been steadily going the other way.

I was consoling a friend of mine, a long-time Labor supporter, and I pointed out to her that we had eleven years of Johnny Howard and the sky didn't collapse; to which she responded "Yeah but Tony Abbott is no Johnny Howard".  That's a valid point - I didn't really like Johnny but at least he was a clever man and I had a fair amount of confidence in his decision-making, I don't have the same feeling about Tony.

I wish we had Paul Keating back, at least he was really entertaining.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
I will be totally honest here about the coming election, I don't think any of them could get a rise in a brothel to tell the truth. It is simply the best of the bad lot really. They all have bad things hidden away.
David Peters

My disdain for one is matched by my despair over the other. So I go back to their DNA.

Besides unless you lived on Mars you'd know that Rosebud is really pulling the strings here Evil or Very Mad
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
It didn't used to be like that, though.  Even though my grandparents hated Bob Menzies with a passion if you look at the history of many of the things the man did he was practically a benevolent socialist in comparison to Johnny Howard and Tony Abbott.  They actually had concerns about providing the very poor with medicines and set up the beginnings of the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme; he also set up a very generous foreign aid program (giving our money to foreigners - imagine that) and modernised the Postmaster Generals' office so that people everywhere could direct dial (including rural people eventually).

I also like to think of people like Henry Bolte (VIC) and Tommy Playford (SA); both these Liberal premiers did wonderful, practically socialist things for their states (horror!).  Bolte spent big on the State Rivers Commission (rural water) and got the State Electricity Commission to connect many rural and remote places previously unable to access mains power.  Playford set up the Housing Trust of SA and the Electricity Trust SA to provide ordinary working people with access to cheap housing and cheap electricity; the primary aim was to attract industry like Chrysler and General Motors but it had the bonus of providing South Australians with jobs and houses.  I could almost forgive him for shutting down Adelaide's tram system for that!

Compare to the current aspirants who want to give wealthy people huge amounts of money to have babies.  It's crazy, the Liberals seem exclusively to be rewarding Johnny Howard's 'aspirationals' with more and more money for private health insurance, and private schools - stuff everyone else, it's their fault for being poor.  Haven't they ever heard of Marie Antoinette?

2301, I'm really glad I have you exercising your vocabulary.  As with Aaron, I've decided responding to you is only encouraging your problem - but I'll still hold the door open for you to comment about Andrew Robb's atrocious view on competition policy.
don_dunstan
Back when they actually had open minded people in the Liberal Party.

Now its dominated by small minded, don't come near my lollypops, reactionary conservatives and increasingly a magnet for fascists.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
Just face it - this election will be won/lost in a few marginal seats plus the independents and they are all falling the way of the Liberals.   Even if the polling suggests it might be close (51-49), the actual result based on the few seats will probably show a win to the Libs by up to 20 seats.
Remember only 60,000 people get to vote for or against Rudd in his electorate (and the same in Abbott's).   The rest of us have to select our own candidate of whichever persuasion to get the best for your region.
All this he will/won't on here will not change anyone's mind.   Most people have made their decision already and can't wait for next weekend to get this crap over and done with!
  9034 Train Controller


Liberal don't have any policies. None have been released to date, but fair enough - it's your vote.

(snip)
Barrington Womble
Liberal Party Policies are here if you care to look.

http://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies

But I know you won't bother because you mind is already made up.  The rest of your post shows you follow the party line.  You will continue to vote for a party that can't keep a simple promise (There will be no carbon tax).   That launches a smear campaign because it has nothing it believes in and nothing positive to sell itself on.  That knifes a Prime Minister they hated because of a fall in opinion polls and then knifed his replacement and brought him back because they were worried about losing an election.  A party that has turned a 20 Billion Surplus to a 300  billion dollars  deficit despite increasing tax revenues.   A party that seems to believe that it has right to behave corruptly and thinks nothing about it.  A party whose creed is "Whatever it Takes" in its lust for power and damn the  rest of us.


9034
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Not to mention mounting an election campaign based on nothing but lies, just like their term in government was. But then again, only Labor voters would believe that rubbish.
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Not to mention mounting an election campaign based on nothing but lies, just like their term in government was. But then again, only Labor voters would believe that rubbish.
TheBlacksmith

That's 'right' isn't it. The Liberal fountain of truth.

Just that no one can find it Rolling Eyes
  Mickonthehill Station Staff

Location: Crimial Hill
On a board called Railpage, I cant see why we can't bring it down to simple issues like this: one of the major parties is supporting public rail projects, and the other major party has said no more public money for rail.

What more needs to be said?
  Barrington Womble Photo Nazi

Location: Banned
Liberal Party Policies are here if you care to look.

http://www.liberal.org.au/our-policies

But I know you won't bother because you mind is already made up.  The rest of your post shows you follow the party line.  You will continue to vote for a party that can't keep a simple promise (There will be no carbon tax).   That launches a smear campaign because it has nothing it believes in and nothing positive to sell itself on.  That knifes a Prime Minister they hated because of a fall in opinion polls and then knifed his replacement and brought him back because they were worried about losing an election.  
9034
Yes, the much coveted pamphlet. You must also be towing the party line to even consider posting that.

I've looked at that. Mere puff-pieces with little to no real hint of what they're actually going to do, and how they're going to do it. Most of these so-called policies are merely denegrating the current government. There's no actual policy structure beyond an expression of interest, or if you're cynical like me - lip service. There's no real solutions in that, and certainly no policies.

By the way: it wasn't hard to make my mind up that The Liberal Party was a no-go after Abbott opened his mouth. That bloke is a total idiot. I wouldn't trust those who are standing behind him either - such lumineries as Christopher Pyne (a nasty little berk), who has been ejected from Parliament no less than 16 times, each time being a total smart alec to the speaker. Classy stuff. Yes, Gillard knifed Rudd, and she was voted out in the last leadership spill. You should be applauding that. Rudd has already said that the Carbon Tax was going to be abolished, so that argument is void. Tell me: why isn't Turnball still the leader of the Libs, and not the absolute turkey that's currently leading the pack? Now there's a leadership spill that's been glossed over. Exchanging somebody who actually has some intellegence for someone who is empty from the neck upwards. At least with Labor, both leaders had a brain.


A party that has turned a 20 Billion Surplus to a 300  billion dollars  deficit despite increasing tax revenues.   A party that seems to believe that it has right to behave corruptly and thinks nothing about it.  A party whose creed is "Whatever it Takes" in its lust for power and damn the  rest of us.


9034
9034
Ah yes, the surplus. No point even arguing with you about that, it's all been said before, and surplus is not what it's cracked up to be. I find your last line very interesting. "Whatever it Takes" - indeed. So do you think that if the Liberals didn't have greedy little toads like Murdoch, and Rinehardt backing them, and paying for their campaign that they would have had a look in this time around? Murdoch wants Liberal so he can gain control of the NBN, and he can further line his pockets, and Gina wants to import cheap mine workers from Africa to work in her big holes in the ground. The only way that would happen is by "Workchoices" or similar being re-introduced. At present Murdoch is using his media to effectively brainwash people into thinking the Liberal Party are a viable option. Abbott has also displayed from his sheer bitchiness toward Labor that he wants to win at all costs - especially after enlisting the help of the above magnates.

This video makes me cringe:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WqnTrG204

Sorry, I was convinced long ago that Liberal simply are not viable until they develope some sort of conscience, and are led by someone with a brain.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
This video makes me cringe:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-WqnTrG204
Barrington Womble:


I think everyone in the cheer squad should have a look and pontificate on it; although given nobody wanted to touch Andrew Robb's comments with a barge-pole I'm not getting my hopes up.  Here's the annotated highlights for you if you can't be bothered watching the whole thing:

4:02-5:12 is really, really bad; I've never seen a politician behave like that before, especially one that aspires to be our next PM.  Why didn't his minders try and pull him out of it?  
8:40 he's explaining that he actually lies all the time and you probably shouldn't trust him (how refreshingly honest!).  
10:33 Malcolm Fraser admits Tony Abbott is desperate for power for the sake of it and can't be trusted, a senior Liberal Party statesman who won three elections telling us that Tony is not Prime Minister material.  And people like 9034 think that Rudd is power-hungry?  Please.


...and Gina wants to import cheap mine workers from Africa to work in her big holes in the ground.
Barrington Womble

All the big time donors will get their way on 457's.  Unemployment is the last thing on Tony's mind; big corporate donations in their pockets to fight the next election is much more important.
  don_dunstan Minister for Railways

Location: Adelaide proud
Back when they actually had open minded people in the Liberal Party.

Now its dominated by small minded, don't come near my lollypops, reactionary conservatives and increasingly a magnet for fascists.
Groundrelay

Yeah, personally I'm not sure why things have turned out this way - maybe because the big money from extremely wealthy people has corrupted them? We had a system 50-60 years ago whereby the interests of ordinary working people were being catered for by the Liberal Party in a way that's just not even on the radar now.  The really alarming thing is that infrastructure (as discussed in my post) is also not on the radar if you don't count things like the $9 billion truck sewer here in Melbourne.  What's the problem with borrowing to spend on infrastructure to improve our national competitiveness and future-proof our nation against whatever is around the corner?  Bolte, Playford and Menzies had no problem with building things - in fact Bolte put Victoria into HEAPS of debt to build big infrastructure projects, but in the long run it was worth it.

The only conclusion I can come to is that they're only interested in looking after the here and now or people who are directly connected to the Liberal Party.
  gippslander Chief Commissioner

Location: Central Gippsland, Vic
On a board called Railpage, I cant see why we can't bring it down to simple issues like this: one of the major parties is supporting public rail projects, and the other major party has said no more public money for rail.

What more needs to be said?
"Mickonthehill"


Interesting to note that people on this forum who keep belting up the ALP are generally silent in relation to transport matters, particularly those in cities. Are these people fussed about the fact there is a clear distinction between both parties? In Melbourne we are set to lose any chance of getting the Metro in the foreseeable future, and other capitals have similar issues. The liveability of cities and managing congestion are inextricably linked!
  fabricator Chief Commissioner

Location: Gawler
Interesting to note that people on this forum who keep belting up the ALP are generally silent in relation to transport matters, particularly those in cities. Are these people fussed about the fact there is a clear distinction between both parties? In Melbourne we are set to lose any chance of getting the Metro in the foreseeable future, and other capitals have similar issues. The liveability of cities and managing congestion are inextricably linked!
gippslander
I wish your first sentence were true, some of the Liberal hacks are of the "Doesn't this guy ever shutup ?!" variety.
The constant whining like an old lady about how the state/federal ALP are wasting "their" money on things they personally don't use, is very grating. It's sometimes interesting when you find out they never catch trains or talk an awful lot about riding their bike everywhere.

IMHO people are either part of the solution, or part of the problem. I often wonder just how many of those forum members with professional connections to the industry are are of the bureaucratic variety, that is the very people that degrade the current and future plans for railways.

The problems in South Australia go from everything to bureaucrats ordering an entirely new ticketing system but leaving out the note reader on the onboard machines to save a few bucks, to still not having a master public transport blueprint for the future. Then the whole thorny problem of Alan Scott's empire and the Railyard of Doom (aka Mount Gambier). If no one writes up the documents to ask for funding for something, it doesn't happen, this is 100% the biggest issue with the states.

The Liberals are such hypocrites, they run infrastructure into the ground by doing little or nothing to maintain and improve it. Then when the ALP get in and quite rightly have to go on a spending spread to fix everything that is broken, Tony appears and starts with the mountain of debt tantrum that puts a 5 year old to shame.

We really need to get all levels of government together, actually plan our cities, try and decentralise a bit, and stop putting 20,000+ people in a new suburb with no train stations for miles. Given that NSW Liberal government's current evil plans for Newcastle station, I can't trust any member of that party to actually consider anything like that.
  TheBlacksmith Chief Commissioner

Location: Ankh Morpork
Interesting to note that people on this forum who keep belting up the ALP are generally silent in relation to transport matters, particularly those in cities. Are these people fussed about the fact there is a clear distinction between both parties? In Melbourne we are set to lose any chance of getting the Metro in the foreseeable future, and other capitals have similar issues. The liveability of cities and managing congestion are inextricably linked!
gippslander
It is more interesting to me that, if you believe the polls, the distribution of ALP and Liberal voters is close to 50%, that vastly more ALP sympathisers are represented in this discussion.

And why does the focus have to be about city issues? I live in the country and could not care less about your congestion issues, just as city people don't care about the issues we face in rural areas.
  cootanee Chief Commissioner

Location: North of the border!
...
And why does the focus have to be about city issues? I live in the country and could not care less about your congestion issues, just as city people don't care about the issues we face in rural areas.
TheBlacksmith
That's why you have the National Party in a coalition of equals.
  Donald Chief Commissioner

Location: Donald. Duck country.
 What's the problem with borrowing to spend on infrastructure to improve our national competitiveness and future-proof our nation against whatever is around the corner?  Bolte, Playford and Menzies had no problem with building things - in fact Bolte put Victoria into HEAPS of debt to build big infrastructure projects, but in the long run it was worth it.
don_dunstan
Except this time around - where is the big infrastructure projects?

And don't quote the NBN, Disability care, Gonski.  They still are unfunded or hiding off the books in never-never land.
  Newcastle Express Chief Commissioner

oh rats, this one hand/finger typing ain't the best to type with.

saw something in some paper [internet version] where one liberal let it slip that work choices IS one of Abbott policies to bring it back. now i can't find the link
  Aaron Minister for Railways

Location: University of Adelaide SA
It is more interesting to me that, if you believe the polls, the distribution of ALP and Liberal voters is close to 50%, that vastly more ALP sympathisers are represented in this discussion.

And why does the focus have to be about city issues? I live in the country and could not care less about your congestion issues, just as city people don't care about the issues we face in rural areas.
TheBlacksmith
Beat me to it! Who outside of Melbourne, and by that I mean people in SA, NSW, QLD, WA, TAS, NT, ACT and greater Victoria give even close to a flying smeg what the Federal Government spend on rail for only greater Melbourne? My guess: No one!
  Groundrelay Chief Commissioner

Location: Surrounded by Trolls!
Except this time around - where is the big infrastructure projects?

And don't quote the NBN, Disability care, Gonski.  They still are unfunded or hiding off the books in never-never land.
Donald


Come on duck you can't have it both ways Rolling Eyes

Even the much maligned Liberal version is still be trumped by them as major infrastructure spending.

Since the Liberals have dropped that stonewalling negativity and agreed to the National Disability and Gonski programs should we be cynical about their motives given "They still are unfunded or hiding off the books in never-never land" Shocked

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